Advice on building cx bike

wastegate86

Hi peeps just looking for opinions

currently very tempted to build my own CX bike
the intention is to use the bike for commuting on really crapy back lanes and the odd bit of riding on days off
personally like the idea of a titanium frame but so far have only seen Lynskey Ti
the frame i pick will need to have mounts for gaurds and discs

Have also been looking into hydrolic disc conversions V-Twin
Anyone got any experience with these?

Also what wheels and tyres should i go for considering it'll only ever see road miles

First.Aspect

I have both. Its not quite a road bike but its pretty damn close.

The Lynskey frame is fairly stiff and pretty responsive. The only gripes are that the breezer dropout at the back doesn't leave enough room for a quick release to get past the rear mech, so you have to unscrew it completely. And the frame is only adaped for cables, so you need adaptors for the V-twin rear brake. Eventually I'll get the cable guides drilled out for the hydraulic line. Overall I'm very happy with it.

You will need to find some light 29er wheels or it will kill the whole bike. I have Shimano MT75s. Sub 1800g - you have to pretty well double the price to go much lower. Also tubless compatible so no faffing with rim tape. They take road tyres okay. The trend at the moment is for wide road rims, so the width of mtb wheels isn't an issue. I also ran 25c tyres on some Salsa rims for a couple of years without issue.

The v-twin brakes don't feel like full mtb hydraulics but they are considerably better and easier to live with than cable discs. I intensely disliked my Avid bb7s, not so the Hopes. You need to install cable adjusters in line to the adaptor to adjust the gap for wear and fluid temp etc and it does make the cabling at the front end a bit fiddly, but they have much better bite than the avids and rather better modulation. In fairness I didn't try mechanical discs with compressionless cables.

Your biggest issue may be finding a carbon disc fork with hopes for guards. Kinesis do one, but take a look at http://www.fatbirds.co.uk for another option.

Have fun.

The Rookie

http://superstar.tibolts.co.uk/product_ ... cts_id=621 1710g for £320.... and 6 bolt which means your disc and mounting is lighter as well (about another 60-100g saving)

SRAM have hydro discs for drop bar levers coming soon.....Magura used to do hydro drop levers but NOT dual control., many people rate the Avid BB5/7's very highly (me among them) but they are pretty heavy!

EKE_38BPM

You'll need to buy one of these.

phy2sll2

Ask Paul Milnes for advice. He's the daddy for all things CX.

http://www.paulmilnescycles.com/

veronese68

The Beginner wrote:

Magura used to do hydro drop levers but NOT dual control., many people rate the Avid BB5/7's very highly (me among them) but they are pretty heavy!

Surely it's possible to make a good, light cable disc set up. I know it's a completely different thing, but when Honda first made the Firebalde they went for a cable clutch to save weight. So with CX and road bikes that are starting to have discs fitted and weight being more of a concern, would it not be worth developing a really good cable disc set up?

meanredspider

The problem with cable discs is that you need to convert tension (in the cable) to pressure at the pads. What's so nice about hydrualics is that pressure is what you get anyway. The other nice thing about fluid pressure is that it pushes equally in all directions. There's no need for a conversion mechanism.

I'm just being patient until full blown hydraulic Di2 shifters appear

The Rookie

My cable discs are light (lighter than an entry level hydro like Juicy 5's) on my flat bar.

Clarks CMD5 callipers (also sold as Quad QMD5 and Vuelta also sold the same ones) at 151g for PM mount and 167g for an IS (so net lighter as the adaptor and 2 extra bolts is about 45g), cables weigh in at 43g front and 65g rear and I'm using crosstop levers at 120g. Unless I go to an exotic lever at 60g/pair that is the lightest mechanical disc you can get. However many Hydros (for MTB) are lighter than that (Formula, latest Avid, even XT which are 'heavy' are lighter). BB5 calipers are 235g each which is about the same as a full Formula setup.

The weight advantage cannot be ignored and drop bar dual control hydro's must be coming, SRAM have said it is (14MY kit), it's obvious to me that Shimano will be hard on their heels or even launching first.

rubertoe

EKE_38BPM wrote:

You'll need to buy one of these.

A grand? I want

wastegate86

That lynskey looks interesting,any other road bikes with mounts and disc brakes?

Not seeing the best reviews on the hope breaks anyone used the trp kit

Hmm not sold on the cape ha

meanredspider

Slightly (OK, mostly) left field but get yourself across to Volagi

http://www.volagi.com/

The Viaje might be interesting and the Liscio, with TRP, might give you ideas.

veronese68

Wastegate86 wrote:

any other road bikes with mounts and disc brakes?

I'm on the verge of pulling the trigger on one of these:

rubertoe

Veronese68 wrote:

Wastegate86 wrote:

any other road bikes with mounts and disc brakes?

I'm on the verge of pulling the trigger on one of these:

Stop posting pics of that bike, your making me extremely jealous.

:oops:

jomoj

was going to suggest the pro6, I love that green. If you're building a workhorse and occasional day off bike then ti seems a bit of an overkill but it's your money... For what it's worth I built cx/everything bike based on a 2nd hand Kinesis pro5 and it's been great, gets more miles than my mtb or pure roadie. It's got cantis not discs and although I think discs are great, I can live without them

wastegate86

Some nice bikes there but I think I'm set on Ti or even stainless if there's any out there
Any other views on lynskey ti as so far haven't seen anything else to take my fancy

meanredspider

Wastegate86 wrote:

Some nice bikes there but I think I'm set on Ti or even stainless if there's any out there
Any other views on lynskey ti as so far haven't seen anything else to take my fancy

I may be wrong but I think StSt would make a horrible bike frame

asprilla

meanredspider wrote:

Wastegate86 wrote:

Some nice bikes there but I think I'm set on Ti or even stainless if there's any out there
Any other views on lynskey ti as so far haven't seen anything else to take my fancy

I may be wrong but I think StSt would make a horrible bike frame

XCr and 953 are both stainless.

meanredspider

Asprilla wrote:

XCr and 953 are both stainless.

And they're used in what?

asprilla

Loads of stuff.

The new Genesis team bike is 953 and 931, both of which are stainless.

The Rookie

meanredspider wrote:

I may be wrong but I think StSt would make a horrible bike frame

You are.....why say that though? There are many different grades of SS, some surface corrode, others don't at all, some lose the internal hysterisys that makes steel a nice frame, others do not, saying stainless steel is like saying alluminium, it's a family not a single material.

redvee

I looked at the Crosslight CX frames but went elsewhere cause of price and lack of rack/guard mounts. There is a Kaffenback frame & forks on it's way to me at present.

wastegate86

enigma do a ss frame
Noticed planet x do a frame that meets my needs for £100 ha just a shame its not in a fancy material

Anyone know much about the amazon?
I see on some older frames it takes guards and disc but not on new model??

meanredspider

The Beginner wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I may be wrong but I think StSt would make a horrible bike frame

You are.....why say that though? There are many different grades of SS, some surface corrode, others don't at all, some lose the internal hysterisys that makes steel a nice frame, others do not, saying stainless steel is like saying alluminium, it's a family not a single material.

Yup - I guess it's just that all the grades I've worked with would have made horrible frames. It was also horrible stuff to machine. Its rust resistant properties seem a poor reason to use it.

cjcp

As for wheels and tyres: if you're going to use them for commuting on crappy lanes, I'd go with a tough road tyre, on a wheel that's got a wide enough rim to take a CX tyre when you want to do some CX riding. My experience of my CX tyres (Michelin Mud 2s) is that they're not as tough as my road tyres (Duranos), but you could use Marathons on the wider rims

First.Aspect

Wastegate86 wrote:

enigma do a ss frame
Noticed planet x do a frame that meets my needs for £100 ha just a shame its not in a fancy material

Anyone know much about the amazon?
I see on some older frames it takes guards and disc but not on new model??

I've had a £1600 steel salsa disc cx and the lynskey ti, which ended up at around £3-£3,5k I think.

Based on this experience I'd advise that with a cx, discs, racks and lights you are battling against weight. Mine started at about 1200g for the frame, 700g for the fork - not light by road standards at similar prices but not tragic by any means. I've gone for Ti seatpost and stem and a Toupe saddle and the Hope V-twin isn't that heavy overall compared to Avids because the brakes themselves are tiny. I've not weighed it but I would be suprised if it isn't over 20lb still with pedals and guards.

Bikes like the Volgai (which by all accounts is excellent, but ugly as sin to my eyes) or the Colnago road disc are fairly light - to the point that mere mortals probably aren't going to be able to blame the bike - but at a cost. I just checked the Volgai website and they claim 17.2lb without pedals, so add pedals and guards and its not much different to mine. But they really are getting close to being all-round bikes. I'm about to head off on a 45 miler to Innerleithen for example. I imaginge I'll overtake some weekend warriers on ubiquitous Trek Madones with black stripes up their castelli kit. I usually do.

Bikes like the steel Salsa, the Genesis machines and similar are good bikes for the money (paraticularly the Genesis) but they are going to feel distinctly sluggish out of the saddle when you are swaying 27 odd lbs side to side. Fine for a moderate commute, frustrating for a weekend ride.

I would only suggest getting a cross/road disc if you are going to spend a couple of grand or more, or if its not going to be your only bike. If you don't want to get into that price range, you are better off with a winter road frame from Ribble or something like that, with clearance for some wider tyres if you want to hit some gravel tracks at some point.

If you are in the titanium frame + nice trinkets market, your options are improving all the time. The Lynskey really is nice. Litespeed do one now and they are the sort of company which will add rack mounts on request. There is a Canadian company called Everti who make a similar machine, if you can get hold of one. If you win the lottery you could always get a Moots. Drool. Salsa have come out of administration and do a range of dirt track drop bar bikes - but the combination of rack muonts and titanium doesn't seem to be an option just now. That said, it was until recently so you could search around for some existing stock. Personally I think they are over priced and I didn't get on with the geometry. The good thing about the Lynskey for me is that it has quite steep road bike-like geometry without a tall head tube (I want "relaxed riding position" to be optional, not inevitable).

meanredspider

Just weighed my Volagi Liscio - 8kg (17.6lbs) on the nail with SKS Chromoplastics and Ultegra SPD-SL pedals. Mine differs from stock in that I have wider carbon bars, Di2 Ultegra, Toupe saddle and a couple of carbon bottle holders. My front SKS guard is cut down a bit.

Escadrille Ecosse

Veronese68 wrote:

Wastegate86 wrote:

any other road bikes with mounts and disc brakes?

I'm on the verge of pulling the trigger on one of these:

I've had a black Pro6 for the last 6 months as a winter Commuter. It's fairly light and has a nice feel to it, comfy without being too soft. Fitted with full SKS guards, pedals, 105 kit, BB7s and a pair of the Kinesis CX wheels it weighs a little over 19 lbs. Swap the Conti 4 Seasons for Marathon winters and the weight goes up to about half a ton

If they were selling the lime green when I bought mine I'd have gone for that in a flash. Still tempted to buy one and flog the black frame on fleabay

veronese68

Escadrille Ecosse wrote:

I've had a black Pro6 for the last 6 months as a winter Commuter. It's fairly light and has a nice feel to it, comfy without being too soft. Fitted with full SKS guards, pedals, 105 kit, BB7s and a pair of the Kinesis CX wheels it weighs a little over 19 lbs. Swap the Conti 4 Seasons for Marathon winters and the weight goes up to about half a ton

Component wise that's almost exactly the spec I'm going for not sure about wheels yet. Any problems fitting the guards, are they chromoplastics?

meanredspider

Escadrille Ecosse wrote:

swap the Conti 4 Seasons for Marathon winters and the weight goes up to about half a ton

One day someone will make a good studded road tyre that doesn't weight a ton. Why my preferred Spiker Pros weigh considerably less than the marathon W***ers I don't know. A 700c tyre with, say 240 studs (that stay in) that weigh about 700g isn't too much to ask is it?

meanredspider

Just idly wondering when one of the road Di2 hydraulic systems would be available and noticed that the TRP Parabox isn't compatible with Di2. No idea why not. Anybody? Clash with the Di2 junction box?

Escadrille Ecosse

Veronese68 wrote:

Escadrille Ecosse wrote:

I've had a black Pro6 for the last 6 months as a winter Commuter. It's fairly light and has a nice feel to it, comfy without being too soft. Fitted with full SKS guards, pedals, 105 kit, BB7s and a pair of the Kinesis CX wheels it weighs a little over 19 lbs. Swap the Conti 4 Seasons for Marathon winters and the weight goes up to about half a ton

Component wise that's almost exactly the spec I'm going for not sure about wheels yet. Any problems fitting the guards, are they chromoplastics?

Guards were mostly OK, I used the 45mm wide to clear the Marathon Winters. At the back Kinesis supply a small angled bracket that goes under one of the brake caliper mounting screws as the actuating arm gets in the way of the bolt on the seatstay. Means the right hand side mudguard stays are a lot shorter so a bit of creative bending is needed and you will need to cut the ends off the stays. At the front its a bit of a faff to clear the caliper so I ended up with only one stay, bent under the brake. The mounting hole in the back of the crown of the fork could also do with being a bit lower (or the bracket on the mudguard a bit longer) but I got it all to fit in the end. Would add a picture but I don't do Flikr or similar pic hosting :oops: