Exercise anxiety and Heart Rate Monitor overuse

bsjeam

Hi
Im a fit healthy 30yr old training for my first ironman this year.
Training was going very well until this last xmas.
I was out on a training bike ride with some riders in Spain I had just come across on the road.
Short story is that one of the 5 riders i was with had a heart attack (and died) while climbing a hill.
He was about my age and in great shape. Tragic event and now I'm having problems exercising.
I always train with a heart rate monitor and without fail, during my running and cycling sessions, im having panic attacks. I back off but still cant lower my heart rate to anywhere near normal levels which is killing training.

I have now found out that if I don't look at my HRM at all during exercise I can avoid these panic attacks (a cognitive behavioural therapy trick).

Obviously not checking your heart rate isn't an option for serious training so my question is....how often is reasonable to check your pulse / read the display?

twotyred

Obviously not checking your heart rate isn't an option for serious training

Not obvious at all. All serious training used to be done without HRMs. I doubt Eddy Merckx used a HRM that much if at all. Its perfectly possible to do serious training using perceived exersion.

You could always try a power meter but that might just give you another number to worry about.

BikeSwan

Like twotyred said, you can always try something else . . . a powermeter?

Another option is to go to your doctor and have a physical. Chances are, that rider who had the heart attack had something seriously wrong with him (heart condition, etc). You could get your doctor to reassure you that there is nothing wrong with you.

Remember, professional cyclists and triathletes are well into their 30's before they retire, so they are reaching their max HR about 2 or 3 times a week when their 38 . . . I imagine. If you are 30, fit, and dont have a heart condition, you have nothing to worry about.

Froomes Edgar

bsjeam wrote:

Hi
Im a fit healthy 30yr old training for my first ironman this year.
Training was going very well until this last xmas.
I was out on a training bike ride with some riders in Spain I had just come across on the road.
Short story is that one of the 5 riders i was with had a heart attack (and died) while climbing a hill.
He was about my age and in great shape. Tragic event and now I'm having problems exercising.
I always train with a heart rate monitor and without fail, during my running and cycling sessions, im having panic attacks. I back off but still cant lower my heart rate to anywhere near normal levels which is killing training.

I have now found out that if I don't look at my HRM at all during exercise I can avoid these panic attacks (a cognitive behavioural therapy trick).

Obviously not checking your heart rate isn't an option for serious training so my question is....how often is reasonable to check your pulse / read the display?

TBH, it sounds like you need to get a grip. A very small proportion of young, fit people die from heart attacks every year - you were just unlucky to be near one that did. You're far, far more likely to die from being hit by a car whilst out on your bike, or to drown whilst you're swimming.

Hope this helps.

ut_och_cykla

You could just get a grip ... but a check up (and a couple of chats with someone knowledgable about such issues ) might help. Sudden death due to heart issues is extremely rare even amongst people who exercise hard. You could try training some sessions without a HRM (easier ones to start with?) or use a HRM that has zones linked to sound so that you can here when you are in 'right' training zone - or alternatively hear when you go too high? I personally seldom check my HRM unless I'm meant to be taking things easy - as I know pretty much what it should feel like at different zones - I log the recorded info to monitor changes over time.

Brommers76

Seeing somebody die in front of you will affect people in different ways so i think getting a grip isn't helpful. I echo seeing your doctor. I would also suggest ditching the HRM and just trying to get out and ride your bike. No 'training', just riding.

I have a heart issue and knowing that I am not 100% right really hit me. After readjusting mentally I rarely think about it.

Best of luck.

GiantMike

You have nothing to worry about. As unfortunate as it was, being near somebody when they die of a Heart Attack doesn't make it more likely that you will. Not being there doesn't make it less likely that I will.

mattshrops

Froomes Edgar wrote:

bsjeam wrote:

Hi
Im a fit healthy 30yr old training for my first ironman this year.
Training was going very well until this last xmas.
I was out on a training bike ride with some riders in Spain I had just come across on the road.
Short story is that one of the 5 riders i was with had a heart attack (and died) while climbing a hill.
He was about my age and in great shape. Tragic event and now I'm having problems exercising.
I always train with a heart rate monitor and without fail, during my running and cycling sessions, im having panic attacks. I back off but still cant lower my heart rate to anywhere near normal levels which is killing training.

I have now found out that if I don't look at my HRM at all during exercise I can avoid these panic attacks (a cognitive behavioural therapy trick).

Obviously not checking your heart rate isn't an option for serious training so my question is....how often is reasonable to check your pulse / read the display?

TBH, it sounds like you need to get a grip. A very small proportion of young, fit people die from heart attacks every year - you were just unlucky to be near one that did. You're far, far more likely to die from being hit by a car whilst out on your bike, or to drown whilst you're swimming.

Hope this helps.

Sometimes you're funny.
Quite often you're unpleasant.

Barbarossa

In Italy, you need to have a full medical each year to renew your racing licence. Quite thorough, BP, urine test, eyesight, ECG then 10 minutes on an exercise bike and another ECG. I don't know where you'd go to to get something like this done in the UK but it would probably set your mind at rest.

ShutUpLegs

As said above, seeing someone die in front of you is very distressing. See a psychologist not a doctor.

Muffintop

Not a very cheerful subject and this doesn't affect me when I'm cycling but... A couple of years ago I had a friend who killed himself by hanging. I now can't bear to feel anything tight around my neck - things like my work pass (which is ment to be worn round the neck) and collars done up, a heavy piece of jewelry and stuff. It's a stupid thing but I've since stopped wearing certain things around my neck. Whilst it doesn't actually stop me doing anything I share frustration with yourself (if you do indeed have any) and the slight confusion of 'why the f*** am I doing this?!?!?'.

I echo the others suggestions, with not taking your hr monitor out with you on training rides, and what about introducing every couple of rides a pootle where you're just going out for the rides sake and not trying to hit any fitness gains? I think we forget why we do this sometimes, and on being hung up on reaching targets we occasionally forget to look at the world as it passes us...

Mx

alihisgreat

Get a power meter.

joe.90

Muffintop wrote:

Not a very cheerful subject and this doesn't affect me when I'm cycling but... A couple of years ago I had a friend who killed himself by hanging. I now can't bear to feel anything tight around my neck - things like my work pass (which is ment to be worn round the neck) and collars done up, a heavy piece of jewelry and stuff. It's a stupid thing but I've since stopped wearing certain things around my neck. Whilst it doesn't actually stop me doing anything I share frustration with yourself (if you do indeed have any) and the slight confusion of 'why the f*** am I doing this?!?!?'.

I echo the others suggestions, with not taking your hr monitor out with you on training rides, and what about introducing every couple of rides a pootle where you're just going out for the rides sake and not trying to hit any fitness gains? I think we forget why we do this sometimes, and on being hung up on reaching targets we occasionally forget to look at the world as it passes us...

Mx

Totally agree.

if your that concerned perhaps think about getting an EKG to make sure your heart perfectly ok?

Mr Dog

See a doctor and get advice from a professional. Leave the HRM at home. I can relate to your anxiety as I often push myself above the red line and can't get my heart rate back down which fuels the panic. The power meter suggestion is good one one if you afford it.
Ignore the trolls.

jane90

Froomes Edgar wrote:

TBH, it sounds like you need to get a grip.

This has to be the most unpleasant forum comment I've read for a very long while. I sincerely hope that you've never suffered the trauma of watching someone you know die unexpectedly in front of you. Are you so completely lacking in normal human empathy not to understand that casually telling someone to "get a grip" in such circumstances is, at best, extremely unhelpful?

To the OP, perhaps a chat with your GP might help, whether he or she recommends a physical check-up for your peace of mind and/or a referral to some form of councelling.

Wallywonga

I posted on the following about some of my experiences in respect of the heart playing up.

viewtopic.php?f=40011&t=12904501

To expand on the story a little further, once I had returned from the etape I went to my GP to have them check out the heart, whilst there I also mentioned a lump in my neck that had been flaring up a little which they duly looked into also along with giving me an ECG. Whilst leaving the Docs office I noticed a poster on the wall about checking your testicles for lumps which prompted to give mine a squeeze later that day. And guess what I found.....a lump!

Now with the lump in my neck, balls and a possible heart defect my stress levels went through the roof! I had immediate tests and scans and thankfully for all 3 the results came back as normal (except ECG which showed an athletic heart) but that is normal for me.

Despite that I was still convinced there was something wrong with the heart. As such each time I rode after that the heart rate was greatly elevated (20-30 beats up in some cases) than normal and I was literally obsessed with it, on and off the bike.

Further follow up tests with the cardiologist to look into the elevated heart rate showed no abnormalities, they were very thorough and looked at everything. After 2 months he said to get back into riding, but warned me that my heart would likely be higher due to loss of fitness over the last 3 months not riding so not to panic if things did not seem normal immediately.

So I initially started back without the HRM and went gentle and by feel alone. I then became more and more anxious about wearing the HRM in fear of that although I felt ok on the bike, when I looked at the numbers it might show something to the contrary. At Xmas I got a powermeter, this required the HRM strap to be on in order to pick up the powermeter and to calibrate. So I was forced to pop it on, set up the Garmin and powertap and then take it off again befor the ride.

One day I forgot to take it off before I went out, and rather fortunately it was the day I was doing my Functional Threshold Testing. So this meant I would be riding hard, for 2 intervals of a duration of 20 mins.

I performed the warm-up, the tests and cool down and it was only when riding home I scratched my side and felt the HRM strap. Initially I was a bit gutted as I was still a little unsure as to what my heart was doing and nervous as to what I might see. So I downloaded the ride details as I had to know what my FTP results were. I was really rather delighted to see that my heart rate was bang on my FTP rate of previous years and my wattage was only a few down on last years numbers when I had borrowed a powermeter for a 25mile TT.

I an now pretty sure that anxiety played a large part in my heart doing some weird things, thankfully I was able to revert to wearing a HRM strap whilst training in conjunction with my powermeter due to my ignorant bliss of wearing the strap whilst doing some serious riding. If I had not had that happy accident I am not sure I would have put it back on now!

I would say keep riding without the HRM for a while, maybe 6 weeks and go by feel. No harm in doing that. Then change the display on your computer (if you can) to exclude heart rate. Only look at the HRM reading after the ride and see what you did retrospectively. Thats the stage I am at. I only have watts and cadence on my main view. Heart rate is something I only view when I download the ride. I never used in Road Races anyway as I did not want to know and also did not need to be told that my heart was near max....the screaming agony in my legs told me that already! I used it for pacing in TT's....but to be honest I also found that a hinderance at times!

The mind is a powerful and capable of many physiological responses in the body whether desired or not. It worth getting your doc to perform so simple tests etc which will also settle the mind a bit and from there just get the confidence back!

Good luck and hope it all works out.

Froomes Edgar

jane90 wrote:

Froomes Edgar wrote:

TBH, it sounds like you need to get a grip.

This has to be the most unpleasant forum comment I've read for a very long while. I sincerely hope that you've never suffered the trauma of watching someone you know die unexpectedly in front of you. Are you so completely lacking in normal human empathy not to understand that casually telling someone to "get a grip" in such circumstances is, at best, extremely unhelpful?

To the OP, perhaps a chat with your GP might help, whether he or she recommends a physical check-up for your peace of mind and/or a referral to some form of councelling.

Maybe you should try reading the original post. It wasn't someone the OP knew, it was someone he happened across on a ride. Not that the thrust of my response would have been any different.

When I'm driving my car I often pass car crashes - I don't feel any greater anxiety about driving, the risks don't change because of something I've seen. Similarly, a good friend of mine f**ked up a corner on a fast descent whilst I was riding with him and went headfirst into a stone wall at 30mph, which was pretty f**king horrible - and I feel no greater anxiety about descending whatsoever - I was aware beforehand that there was a small chance of a serious accident, and there is the same chance now.

People die doing pretty much any activity you can think of. Walking the dog, doing DIY, sleeping (quite a common one I bet) - is an appropriate response to stop doing all of these things? No - so the advice if getting a grip is sound.

jane90

Froomes Edgar wrote:

A weasel self-justification of how *I* felt once and so therefore everyone else must have the same reaction to stress or trauma that I did.

Thank you, you've answered my question. You are completely lacking in normal human empathy.

ooermissus

Froomes Edgar wrote:

the advice if getting a grip is sound.

Absolutely. And depressed people should cheer up, while those with cancer should try harder to get better.

Froomes Edgar

jane90 wrote:

Froomes Edgar wrote:

A weasel self-justification of how *I* felt once and so therefore everyone else must have the same reaction to stress or trauma that I did.

Thank you, you've answered my question. You are completely lacking in normal human empathy.

No worries.

Froomes Edgar

ooermissus wrote:

Froomes Edgar wrote:

the advice if getting a grip is sound.

Absolutely. And depressed people should cheer up, while those with cancer should try harder to get better.

Hardly the same. Those are real health issues, the OP is struggling with the inability to understand the concept of risk.

ooermissus

Try reading up about post-traumatic stress disorder - affects around a third of people who witness a traumatic event. Seriousness varies.

jane90

Froomes Edgar wrote:

No worries.

Are you like this offline as well? Do you display the same behaviour patterns: angry, confrontational and bereft of social skills? Or are you just indulging your Jungian shadow aspect in your forum persona? If so, you should be careful because that can also be very unhealthy.

jane90

ooermissus wrote:

Try reading up about post-traumatic stress disorder - affects around a third of people who witness a traumatic event. Seriousness varies.

+1.

Froomes Edgar

jane90 wrote:

Froomes Edgar wrote:

No worries.

Are you like this offline as well? Do you display the same behaviour patterns: angry, confrontational and bereft of social skills? Or are you just indulging your Jungian shadow aspect in your forum persona? If so, you should be careful because that can also be very unhealthy.

Yes, thanks for asking.

Froomes Edgar

ooermissus wrote:

Try reading up about post-traumatic stress disorder - affects around a third of people who witness a traumatic event. Seriousness varies.

I wouldn't find the death of someone I don't know traumatic TBH, but I suppose some would. Fair enough, psychologist seems like a sensible course of action.

Brommers76

Froomes Edgar wrote:

ooermissus wrote:

Try reading up about post-traumatic stress disorder - affects around a third of people who witness a traumatic event. Seriousness varies.

I wouldn't find the death of someone I don't know traumatic TBH, but I suppose some would. Fair enough, psychologist seems like a sensible course of action.

And you know this how? Are you the only one who thinks this is a comedy thread? :roll:

ooermissus

To be fair to Froomes Edgar, cognitive behavioural therapy - the only approach that I believe is thought to work for post-traumatic stress disorder - is grounded in stoicism and is a sophisticated way of telling/helping someone 'get a grip'.