Training to deliberately fail?
barrybridges
Posts: 420
Hear me out on this one - I'd welcome your advice.
I'm just getting back into cycling after many years meandering into other sports (most notably marathon running). I'm out-of-shape but getting back into fitness, and I've got a decent base mileage under my belt with around 150 miles each week on-and-off the turbo.
My problem is that I always finish a training ride thinking that I could have pushed myself a bit harder - and this includes when I'm on the turbo.
On the turbo, I've been doing the sufferfest videos but there's something in the back of my mind which means I never push myself as hard as I should - I always 'hold something back'. It's like I lack the confidence that I can complete the session or a long ride, so I pace myself way too conservatively. When it says 8/10 for effort, I don't think I can honestly say I give it 8/10 - part of my brain says 'hold back a bit as you might need it later'.
My question is: how do I get around this? Or - more specifically - is it worth doing a session or ride with the intention of deliberately failing, so I can see what 'hard' feels like and how far I can push it?
In other sporting disciplines, the concept of 'failing' during training is a good thing. In weights, for example, the AIM is to not be able to complete your final set, because it indicates you've pitched the effort just right.
I really want to get around the issue I've got which is that I tend to hold my effort back. I'm not particularly fit, but I'm worried that I'm building up a lot of endurance to ride slowly, when I'd rather have a lot of endurance to ride quickly.
Does that make sense? Do you think that going out too-hard will be a good tactic for teaching me what 'too hard' actually is?
I'm just getting back into cycling after many years meandering into other sports (most notably marathon running). I'm out-of-shape but getting back into fitness, and I've got a decent base mileage under my belt with around 150 miles each week on-and-off the turbo.
My problem is that I always finish a training ride thinking that I could have pushed myself a bit harder - and this includes when I'm on the turbo.
On the turbo, I've been doing the sufferfest videos but there's something in the back of my mind which means I never push myself as hard as I should - I always 'hold something back'. It's like I lack the confidence that I can complete the session or a long ride, so I pace myself way too conservatively. When it says 8/10 for effort, I don't think I can honestly say I give it 8/10 - part of my brain says 'hold back a bit as you might need it later'.
My question is: how do I get around this? Or - more specifically - is it worth doing a session or ride with the intention of deliberately failing, so I can see what 'hard' feels like and how far I can push it?
In other sporting disciplines, the concept of 'failing' during training is a good thing. In weights, for example, the AIM is to not be able to complete your final set, because it indicates you've pitched the effort just right.
I really want to get around the issue I've got which is that I tend to hold my effort back. I'm not particularly fit, but I'm worried that I'm building up a lot of endurance to ride slowly, when I'd rather have a lot of endurance to ride quickly.
Does that make sense? Do you think that going out too-hard will be a good tactic for teaching me what 'too hard' actually is?
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I find it easier to train really hard on the turbo, as you don't have the fear of struggling to ride back home if you over do it. I'd experiment a bit and see how far you can push yourself. It's only a turbo session, so you've nothing to lose if you end up not being able to finish the session you've started. Just take it into account and adjust your effort next time you attempt that workout.0
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It's a fairly common problem, you're not alone.
As above just go nuts on some of your turbo sessions, worse comes to the worse you literally cannot finish a session but usually you'll find a way. You will never find your limits without occasionally failing.0 -
Surely the whole point of using videos like sufferfest is for motivation, otherwise why bother? How do you actually decide what training to do from week to week?0
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Nope, I can honestly say I don't have this problem!
I find training with power massively helps, I know what zone I need to be in, in any particular session, removes alot of the guess work of "am I worked hard enough or not"0 -
danowat wrote:Nope, I can honestly say I don't have this problem!
I find training with power massively helps, I know what zone I need to be in, in any particular session, removes alot of the guess work of "am I worked hard enough or not"
If you're training in power zones then you're doing a very different type of training.0 -
Yeah, I am doing it properly :P0
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I do all my riding on the road. I can't call it training; I'm a strictly recreational rider, but I do like to challenge myself physically. If I'm planning to really push myself I opt for a circular route so I can do 20 - 30 miles but I'm never more than 6 or 7 miles from home. I rarely get home thinking I've taken it too easy. The only time I've bailed out was due to a slow puncture in sub-zero weather. I love the feeling you get when you crest a hill having given it your all, heart pounding and legs and lungs burning.0
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Use sufferfest with trainerroad and you can be sure you are doing it properly.strava - http://app.strava.com/athletes/1217847
trainerroad - http://www.trainerroad.com/career/joeh0 -
Graeme_S wrote:I find it easier to train really hard on the turbo, as you don't have the fear of struggling to ride back home if you over do it. I'd experiment a bit and see how far you can push yourself. It's only a turbo session, so you've nothing to lose if you end up not being able to finish the session you've started. Just take it into account and adjust your effort next time you attempt that workout.
This. I live on top of a reasonable hill and consequently on the road I always find myself backing off nearer home so that I have enough left to get back up, but I'm always probably overcautious. Part of the reason I bought a trainer was so that I could go all out and simply stop when it gets too much without having to worry where I am when I'm knackered.0 -
keef66 wrote:I love the feeling you get when you crest a hill having given it your all, heart pounding and legs and lungs burning.
Its sounds like you havent given it your all. Your vision should have at least gone blurry and you probably won't be able to ride in a straight line.0 -
And if you're not reaching for the sick bucket, well.....styxd wrote:keef66 wrote:I love the feeling you get when you crest a hill having given it your all, heart pounding and legs and lungs burning.
Its sounds like you havent given it your all. Your vision should have at least gone blurry and you probably won't be able to ride in a straight line.FCN3: Titanium Qoroz.0 -
styxd wrote:keef66 wrote:I love the feeling you get when you crest a hill having given it your all, heart pounding and legs and lungs burning.
Its sounds like you havent given it your all. Your vision should have at least gone blurry and you probably won't be able to ride in a straight line.
That's exactly my point! To different people, 8 out of 10 for effort means different things.
I might try trainerroad as I do think that having a benchmark for effort might be the solution.
Turning it on its head, if someone said to you to ride at 8/10, how long would you be able to ride at that level for?0 -
barrybridges wrote:styxd wrote:keef66 wrote:I love the feeling you get when you crest a hill having given it your all, heart pounding and legs and lungs burning.
Its sounds like you havent given it your all. Your vision should have at least gone blurry and you probably won't be able to ride in a straight line.
That's exactly my point! To different people, 8 out of 10 for effort means different things.
I might try trainerroad as I do think that having a benchmark for effort might be the solution.
Turning it on its head, if someone said to you to ride at 8/10, how long would you be able to ride at that level for?
Not a clue.
I think the "blacking out" effort is hard to achieve on a flat road, it has to be done up a hill (or at least I have to do it up a hill)0 -
barrybridges wrote:Turning it on its head, if someone said to you to ride at 8/10, how long would you be able to ride at that level for?
My 8/10 is 300W and I can sustain that for an hour. However, 300W feels hard after about 5 mins if it's part of a workout.
The advantage of power is that it allow you to better understand the big effect a small change in effort makes. 250W for about 4 hours, 300W for 1 hour, 360W for about 12 minutes. Not a lot of difference in effort but a big difference in time.
Feel free to ignore any of the above...0 -
barrybridges wrote:Hear me out on this one - I'd welcome your advice.
I'm just getting back into cycling after many years meandering into other sports (most notably marathon running). I'm out-of-shape but getting back into fitness, and I've got a decent base mileage under my belt with around 150 miles each week on-and-off the turbo.
My problem is that I always finish a training ride thinking that I could have pushed myself a bit harder - and this includes when I'm on the turbo.
On the turbo, I've been doing the sufferfest videos but there's something in the back of my mind which means I never push myself as hard as I should - I always 'hold something back'. It's like I lack the confidence that I can complete the session or a long ride, so I pace myself way too conservatively. When it says 8/10 for effort, I don't think I can honestly say I give it 8/10 - part of my brain says 'hold back a bit as you might need it later'.
My question is: how do I get around this? Or - more specifically - is it worth doing a session or ride with the intention of deliberately failing, so I can see what 'hard' feels like and how far I can push it?
In other sporting disciplines, the concept of 'failing' during training is a good thing. In weights, for example, the AIM is to not be able to complete your final set, because it indicates you've pitched the effort just right.
I really want to get around the issue I've got which is that I tend to hold my effort back. I'm not particularly fit, but I'm worried that I'm building up a lot of endurance to ride slowly, when I'd rather have a lot of endurance to ride quickly.
Does that make sense? Do you think that going out too-hard will be a good tactic for teaching me what 'too hard' actually is?
Perhaps you need a different focus for your training sessions. 'Just getting fitness back' seems a bit vague. People who can normally thrash themselves on a turbo have a proper reason for why they are putting themselves through it. If you race bikes for example, you'll know all that effort your putting in will someday pay off when it comes to race day. Why not enter an event you can train towards? Or better still hope over the BC website, get yourself a licence and enter some local races!
Keep at it though. If you can get your head into it in time you will see big improvements on the road.0
