Had a crash this morning

warreng

Was knocked off on the A24 by a white van turning left into a shop parade type area. He overtook me and indicated very (too) late for me to do much about it. I hit the side of the van flush and pinged onto the pavement. Next thing I know the driver is standing over me screaming his head off about "fucking cyclists" etc. Now, I'm fairly happy it was not my fault and if it wasn't for my quick reactions I'd be seriously injured. Not that he'd give a shit

Anyhow, a passerby happened to be an off-duty policewoman who phoned it in and insisted we hung around until a police van turned up. Needless to say our versions of events were wildly different and the policeman were kind enough to give me a lift back home. I've got all the details and the police number

I went off to A&E to get checked over and I've no broken bones but I'm pretty sure I'll be off the bike for a while as my shoulder is pretty bashed up and sore.

What do I do now? Put it down to experience? I sort of think I should just forget about it but the way the driver reacted I wanted him just to say sorry and ask if I was ok. I was more concerned that he wanted to finish the job manually. If I do nothing he'll think that I've accepted guilt

It's taken me 45 mins to write that - the co-codamol is messing with my head

nich

I guess follow up with police, check if there's any CCTV.

Did the police women witness it? If so, (and she sides with you), then it might be worth pursuing - not sure how it works after that.

I'd only bother pursuing if my bike was damaged. Bashed shoulders etc heal, although can be a pain in the ass.

If no damage, I'd let it go. He sounds like a twonk and is unlikely to change his attitude. When I was hit in a similar situation the guy was very apologetic.

You might want to consider this: http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/member ... membership

I've not used mine yet, but they supposedly offer legal advice. Plus, if you're ever in an accident that ends up being your fault, you will be covered (peace of mind etc).

Heal up!

gabriel959

Sorry to hear about that. I hope you feel better soon.

Sue the bastard I say. He is clearly in the wrong here it seems to me, did the policeman agree to your version of events? I reckon what he says will be pretty fundamental.

daddy0

If you have a decent witness, i.e. the policewoman, then prosecute. If you don't have a witness or CCTV then you'll probably get a letter in a months time saying there is insufficient evidence. That's what I got despite having two witnesses.

Also put it down to experience and try not to dwell on it. Being knocked off isn't too bad normally, and if its an accident and the driver is apologetic then its easy to let it go. But if the guy was a threatening neanderthal and gets away with it then that may well play on your mind. It did with me.

warreng

No witnesses stopped - the off-duty PC just heard me shout, then the thump followed by my, apparently impressive, triple salchow.

The two PCs that turned up just took statements and were non-committal but I can't see how anyone could anything but say the driver was careless at the very least

One thing that made me chuckle was that when we were waiting for the police the driver was telling me forcefully how shook up he was.

daddy0

WarrenG wrote:

One thing that made me chuckle was that when we were waiting for the police the driver was telling me forcefully how shook up he was.

Good! :twisted:

Take some comfort in poor didums being all shook up. Maybe it might teach him a lesson.

Forgot to say - heal up dude! Hope the bike is OK?

thistle_

I would ring the police or pop into the station tomorrow or Thursday and ask what's happening about it.

From my previous experience, they won't attend the accident and will say it's a civil matter and get the insurance companies to sort it out.

However as the policewoman insisted on reporting it and getting someone to come down she obviously thinks it's worth doing something about. You might need to say that you want to make a complaint of dangerous driving against the van driver.

I'd be happy to let it lie if the driver apologised, but as he thought it was OK to drive like I'd want him off the road for good before he kills someone.

Wallace1492

how shook up he was

Was he All Shook Up? Uh huh?

Seriously, not the best. Drivers like that need a lesson, pursue as much as you can, but don't expect to get anywhere.

All the best.

Initialised

I presume you have his VRM, address etc...

Did you have him breathalised? This would be the best way of dealing with an early morning numpty and getting them off the road, decent chance there'd be some residual booze in his blood stream. Probably why he was so scared and shaken up.

First.Aspect

Sometimes the mere circumstances of the collision can be enough to tip the balance of probabilities.

For example, the guy who hit me came out of a side road onto the major road I was on, and the imact was with the front of his car. Regardless of any witnesses, under what circumstances could I have hit the front of his car? The only one I could think of was that I'd been cycling on the pavement (c.f. the defence in the Jason McIntyre case). He didn't argue this, as it turns out.

My guess is that you will already have enough from the driver himself to be able to show that you weren't on the pavement. Is there even a pavement there?

If you can rule that out, how else did you manage to hit him, other than as a result of the car turning across your path? Was there a line of traffic and were you filtering (surely the off duty PC can confirm whether there was a line of stationary or slow moving traffic)? If not, I struggle to see how he can explain the collision in such a way as to place the blame on you.

essexian

Not sure if the van did, but if it had company details on the side of it and if its not a sole trader (who is likely to be the van driver!) it might be worth dropping an email to the firms transport manager to report the accident. Nothing serious at this time but just to make them aware. It may be that the van driver did not report it, in which case, he is being naughty (in addition to being a twat that is).

Get well soon.

sneill

Where on the A24? I imagine I take a very similar route as you (sutton-bond street) if it was a "shop parade type area" then I'd expect there to be CCTV around if you wanted to pursue it. Hope you get over the injuries quickly, and more importantly how is the bike??

phy2sll2

Putting the possibility of a prosecution and criminal case to one side, for a minute...

Assuming there's any damage whatsoever to yourself, or your bike you need to get his insurers details and start a claim. Otherwise you're sending the message that there's no consequence to poor driving. Might be worth having your bike looked at ASAP by a professional. After my last incidence, I didn't realise my frame was bent until I had it checked over.

Personal preference would be to engage a solicitor. Insurers will take you a lot more seriously. British Cycling, for example, refer cases to Leigh Day & Co.

warreng

Slept on it and thanks for all the advise - I was a little confused yesterday! A little bit calmer at the mo

I'm going to make sure he suffers a bit of inconvenience in the hope he starts using his mirrors and realising that his behaviour has consequences. I have all his details and will be ringing Sutton police this pm

My shoulder is really sore and I'll be on the trains for a while so I want that money back for a start. The bike looks ok but I'll get that checked out as well

It was in North Cheam so I'll ask the shops for the CCTV

Burndust

you could put this down to experience, but if damage was caused to your bike or your person which it clearly was is that affecting work etc, have you had to take anytime off, are you at a loss due to the accident if so then i woud think about some kind of action tbh

Mr Sharky

Can't see any way of you hitting the side of his van unless he has turned across in front of you, or he's parked there and you don't notice him (illegal to park at a junction anyway, IIRC, so he could be done for that and causing an obstruction).

Deffo pursue it. Driver needs to be hit where it hurts, in the pocket, before he'll even bother trying to understand that it's not okay to drive like that.

Glad you're not too badly injured!

Team4Luke

regardless of whether you can get plod to action anything, you have been hurt, your bike damaged, you are entitled to make a claim against him on his insurance, that is what it is for. See a specialist or go through BC, might take a while but you only need sit back and wait, the drivers insurance may also go up so that will teach him a lesson.

spen666

Initialised wrote:

I presume you have his VRM, address etc...

Did you have him breathalised? This would be the best way of dealing with an early morning numpty and getting them off the road, decent chance there'd be some residual booze in his blood stream. Probably why he was so scared and shaken up.

not sure how you would expect OP to carry this out. OP has no power to compel anyone to take a breath test

JamesPritchard

Sorry to hear about your crash. I was reading the forum and wondered if I could offer any help as both a cyclist and also a solicitor specialising in cycling claims.

The previous advice to follow this up with the police is very sensible. I would try ringing the station to try and speak with the officers who attended the scene to see what the outcome of their investigation is. In reality however, in a case such as this, where the injuries aren’t too significant and where there do not appear to be any independent witnesses I would be surprised if the police take any further action against him, but it is still worth following up.

It is also worth speaking with a solicitor or seeking legal advice (assuming that you aren’t a member of British Cycling already or have legal insurance in place, in which case they may be able to help you). It sounds as though your injuries, fortunately, aren’t too bad, but depending upon the extent of the injuries it may be possible for a solicitor to act for you in pursuing a personal injury claim. As part of that claim the solicitor would also be able to recover the cost of any damage to your bike and any other losses (your biking clothes may have been damaged too).

Even if you don’t want to look into pursuing a personal injury claim I would also get your bike checked over by a local bike shop to make sure that there is no underlying damage (often it is recommended that carbon frames be replaced after a crash even if there is no obvious damage due to potential structural weakness). If there is any damage whatsoever to your bike I would then get in touch with his insurers and put the claim for the cost of this damage to them. If you did not get his details at the scene the police should be able to provide these to you. The police may provide you with his insurance details but if they only give you his vehicle registration you can track down the insurance details through the “ask MIB” website (www.askmib.com). I think that there is a one off fee of £4 payable to track down the insurance details using his registration.

Beyond that, even if there is no damage whatsoever to your bike and you don’t want to pursue a personal injury claim it may still be worth reporting the accident to his insurers simply for information purposes. You can make it clear to his insurers that you were not at fault. The simple reporting of an accident may impact on his insurance premium next year.

Before you make any contact with his insurers directly I would recommend you speak with a solicitor for further specialist legal advice. If I can be of any assistance whatsoever then please feel free to personal message me.

Hope this is of some assistance and I hope that you are able to get back on the bike soon.

Roastie

Sorry about the crash Warren - there is a lot of good advice on the thread, so I won't repeat it, suffice to say that it will be best to get back in the saddle as soon as you can. Digest what happened, learn from it and then put it behind you.

Hope you mend soon.

Initialised

spen666 wrote:

Initialised wrote:

I presume you have his VRM, address etc...

Did you have him breathalised? This would be the best way of dealing with an early morning numpty and getting them off the road, decent chance there'd be some residual booze in his blood stream. Probably why he was so scared and shaken up.

not sure how you would expect OP to carry this out. OP has no power to compel anyone to take a breath test

Police were at the scene, I'd recommend getting them to breathalise anyone in a morning rush hour collision. Of course you may not have been thinking like that at the time but next time, or if anyone reading is hit, why not cite erratic driving and poor reactions and push for a test at the roadside. If every driver involved in an RTA was routinely breathalised they'd be more careful.

mudcovered

Initialised wrote:

If every driver involved in an RTA was routinely breathalised they'd be more careful.

I thought they already were. I know I was when I crashed my car a long while back.

Mike

Koncordski

If he'd apologised then let it go as he's probably not going to make the same mistake again. The fact that he decided he was going to take it further would make me pursue a personal injury claim. Just to teach him a lesson, you're also going to have to cough for commuting costs for awhile and he's liable for that at the very least. Get a solicitor and get appropriate compensation.

warreng

I've phoned the police - no update. I've asked my solicitor to contact his company's insurance to claim for travel costs and for personal damage. The main intention, I hope, is that his company will give him a bit of grief for being a knob head. I'm not that injured and should be back on the bike in 2-3 weeks so money is not my motivator

Better heal quick. I'm the RideLondon100 thing

warreng

Just a final update

The van driver's company just phoned and offered to pay for my train travel for the period I'm off my bike. The've also offered to replace my bike (even though the damage is repairable) and a goodwill payment (so that I don't involve their insurance). And the the driver was a contractor - they told me they won't be using him any longer. Not sure whether this will help him become a better driver or turn him into a serial killer of cyclists

Koncordski

Good result and pretty fair. New bike time.

ManiaMuse

If you're happy that your injuries are minor and your shoulder isn't going to give you any long term grief then I would take it.

gabriel959

WarrenG wrote:

Just a final update

The van driver's company just phoned and offered to pay for my train travel for the period I'm off my bike. The've also offered to replace my bike (even though the damage is repairable) and a goodwill payment (so that I don't involve their insurance). And the the driver was a contractor - they told me they won't be using him any longer. Not sure whether this will help him become a better driver or turn him into a serial killer of cyclists

Good result!!! Congratulations

daviesee

WarrenG wrote:

...The've also offered to replace my bike (even though the damage is repairable) ...

Not wanting to be a harbinger of bad news but are they aware how much your bike cost? I don't, it could be expensive.
The general population don't have a clue and I know the guy that hit me was gobsmacked when I gave him the quote for parts at £350. Most people think you get a good complete bike for £250. :roll:
At least they are doing things right and you are not too badly hurt.
I too wonder what the driver's attitude to cyclists will be in future. The guy that hit me went into shock and learned a valuable lesson. Your guy doesn't sound like that type.

TheStone

WarrenG wrote:

Just a final update

The van driver's company just phoned and offered to pay for my train travel for the period I'm off my bike. The've also offered to replace my bike (even though the damage is repairable) and a goodwill payment (so that I don't involve their insurance). And the the driver was a contractor - they told me they won't be using him any longer. Not sure whether this will help him become a better driver or turn him into a serial killer of cyclists

Great result.

Idiot driver at least has some punishment.
You get a new bike.
Company lose a few quid, but keep their insurance costs down.

A KIRK

Glad your to badly injured, as a cyclist and I hate to say it but a white van man too, I feel for you. I work with many other van drivers and to be honest a lot of their driving is shocking, and scares me when I'm out in their vans.

I might not be a perfect driver but as a cyclist I guess I also look out for them more so than some other drivers. I think a lot of the time drivers underestimate the speed cyclists are going, which is still no excuse, as a someone who drives for a living and is classed as a professional driver (debatable) we should be fully aware of all road users.

Good luck and take care out there, oh and if you see a white ak couriers luton van around that will be me.