Wheelsucking Tw**t

rjsterry

Thinking distance at 20mph is about 6m, so if you are closer than that, and the guy in front drops the anchors (or worse), then you'll hit him or her unless you are lucky enough to swerve round.

BigLights

Paolo73 that definitely wasn't me!

So are you guys seriously saying you leave 6 metres behind the rider in front? I'm going to watch it a bit more closely today and see what's what.

rjsterry

BigLights wrote:

Paolo73 that definitely wasn't me!

So are you guys seriously saying you leave 6 metres behind the rider in front? I'm going to watch it a bit more closely today and see what's what.

It's more than I thought, but that's how far you'd travel between thinking "oh ****!" and pulling the levers. Hence: don't draft strangers.

First.Aspect

Drafting is just like tailgating, but with the added knowledge that your tailgater won't be able to see potholes and so on. Its an unwelcome imposed responsibility as well as a danger to the guy in front.

I'm not really clear on the objections you people from Nodnol have to powerful front lights, mainly because here in Scotland, there is no plural for the word "cyclist". We only come in ones.

Is the problem you have that people are getting bonkers bright status symbol lights and using them in the same way as a £15 blinkie from Halfords?

To my mind, if you have a very bright light, which is flashing and not pointing at the road, what's the point? You need a very bright light to see the road when there are no streetlights. In order to use it in this way, it has to be pointing at the road.

I have a MaxxD. Good for end of weekend rides - I live 2 miles from nowhere - and there are a couple of unlit racetracks on my commute. It has a flashing mode but its actually distracting even to the rider in flashing mode because its simply too bright. So in town, is a 250 lumen constant beam pointing at the potholes 10-15m in front of me considered acceptable, or would I be breaking the unwritten law of Richmond Park?

iPete

Nearly been rear ended a few times on the fixie, over enthusiastic noobs don't get that you can be pedalling and yet slowing down and you don't always have time to indicate this!

But in London it's super busy and if I find someone at a similar pace ill sit back a couple of lengths, no point overtaking everything in sight and if I come across a bunch of wheel suckers doing no work, ill overtake and give the guy at the front a chance, if they look competent anyway.

jimmypippa

Possibly an argument for getting a retina burning rear light?

Blonde Cyclist

Regarding drafting - I am comfortable riding in a group but I don't generally like to do it on the commute simply because I don't know whether the other rider knows what they're doing and more than that I've been rear-ended a couple times by riders who didn't have a clue what they were doing (oddly neither time was an emergency stop and even signalled, they were just idiots).

The lights one is I think a London thing. We have a lot of bright street lights and predominantly use lights so that others can see us (e.g. cars). All a really bright light does is ruin night vision for everyone else and block people's view unfortunately. It's a nice idea, but all we really need is something like the good cateyes...

lotuseater

Drafting is fine so long as there is give and take.


Bright lights: I do 6.5 miles pitch black rural at beginning and end of my commute and the pot holes are hard to see and evil. New ones come surprisingly quickly so it is not just a case of learning the surface and you'll be ok. So I am grateful for the Exposure 6 pack on those sections. I guess you can't win though - poor lights get you rightfully berated, so it seems ironic that cyclists now get stick for going from the ridiculous to the sublime...

On the London sections of the commute, just a helmet mounted Joystick on flash is fine. There is a danger I can see of there being a mentality leading to an "arms race" with bright lights in Town - because if yours is weaker than the rest you might feel you are going to be "overlooked" and run into by the cars, so you upgrade and so on.....

One nice thing about having serious lighting firepower is the ability to give the significant minority of rural drivers who don't dip main beams for cyclists, a taste of their own medicine.

Corporate Camper

lotuseater wrote:

One nice thing about having serious lighting firepower is the ability to give the significant minority of rural drivers who don't dip main beams for cyclists, a taste of their own medicine.

I've noticed quite a few drivers not dipping their beams for me when we are passing, it is a right pain. I'm not sure I'd like to blind them (temoroarily) as they approach me though!

BigLights

right so I paid attention to this phenomenon on the way home and back intot he office today. I'm absolutely certain I can't be accused of 'wheelsucking' as I instinctively give more room than most I'm seeing. probably 3-4 bike lengths when going, 2-3 just off the lights, plenty of room to see and stop.

Whilst I can obviously see the irritation wheelsucking causes (I did see a couple of good examples that were just too close), there's clearly a happy medium in my view as complaining of having other cyclists too close to you in London strikes me slightly as a bit like complaining about people standing too close to you on a rushhour tube line...it's crowded out there!

anonymousblackfg

notsoblue wrote:

JonGinge wrote:

The use of stupidly bright lights is on an inexorable rise, though

People seem to be getting into the habit of dipping them in the park though, which is nice.

I normally shout at most as I cycle the opposite was to most in the park at night, I had one person dip his the other day, but this was the first in 2 years!

daddy0

I had my first wheelsucker near miss yesterday at the end of a 40 mile ride. Approaching a set of traffic lights they turned amber and the wheelsucker decides to go for it, passes me and pulls back in in front of me, THEN he decides to be a good boy and not RLJ, so slams on the brakes making me almost go in to the back of him. No apology. Twunt.

Then he wheelsucks me for another mile until he can get alongside me at another set of lights. Then he trackstands and just before the lights go green almost falls into me, but manages to de clip at the very last moment. Double twunt.

Roastie

BigLights wrote:

I'm absolutely certain I can't be accused of 'wheelsucking' as I instinctively give more room than most I'm seeing. probably 3-4 bike lengths when going, 2-3 just off the lights, plenty of room to see and stop.

Dude, don't worry, you are clearly out of the wheelsuck zone - you'd need to be more like 3-4cm (rather than bike lengths) away to be grabbing a tow.

jonomc4

Lordy people are really suffering from bike rage - I am quite happy for people to wheel suck and I do the same - but I keep a reasonable way back and use them more for pacing than drafting. Yeah it might be a little dangerous - but personally I find being swerved at by lorries/buses/cars more worrying in the scheme of things.

I find a nice chewey chill pill helps me enjoy my ride much more.

Mind you slow people who you overtake and then they ride up in front of you at the next lights so you have to overtake them - now they really grip my sh1t

Blonde Cyclist

Umm... You will still gain effect from draft several metres back not just 3-4cm, it decreases as you get further from the wheel but to give you an idea the ITU defines the draft zone as 7m. And I thought the point of this thread is not whether the drafting rider gains benefit but whether they are too close to react to the rider in front, especially if they are not experienced in group riding. If a rider is 3-4 bike lengths back I normally won't worry too much about it (sounds like you're fine Big Lights), but I do get uncomfortable when they are within a couple of feet if I don't know them.

cm, feet, metres and bike lengths - think I got enough distance measurements in there...

asprilla

jonomc4 wrote:

I find a nice chewey chill pill helps me enjoy my ride much more.

I thought poppers would be more suitable when you are worried about someone smashing your backdoors in.

Anyway, If someone tailgated me on the motorway I'd get annoyed and think they were a dangerous driver. I don't see the difference between that and drafting.

clarkey cat

no one would draft you anyway Asprilla you're too slow

asprilla

clarkey cat wrote:

no one would draft you anyway Asprilla you're too slow

I'm not wide enough either.

What's your excuse?

clarkey cat

i'm too wobbly. i look unsafe

Roastie

jonomc4 wrote:

I find a nice chewey chill pill helps me enjoy my ride much more.

Wise words. Agree that it is best to choose not to get wound up.

rjsterry

Blonde Cyclist wrote:

Umm... You will still gain effect from draft several metres back not just 3-4cm, it decreases as you get further from the wheel but to give you an idea the ITU defines the draft zone as 7m. And I thought the point of this thread is not whether the drafting rider gains benefit but whether they are too close to react to the rider in front, especially if they are not experienced in group riding. If a rider is 3-4 bike lengths back I normally won't worry too much about it (sounds like you're fine Big Lights), but I do get uncomfortable when they are within a couple of feet if I don't know them.

cm, feet, metres and bike lengths - think I got enough distance measurements in there...

Well, that fits with the 6m thinking distance at 20mph that I found previously. Oh, and you forgot the standard tabloid units of measure: London buses.

cjcp

Asprilla wrote:

clarkey cat wrote:

no one would draft you anyway Asprilla you're too slow

I'm not wide enough either.

What's your excuse?

Less of a problem for me, right?

This morning: it's dark-ish, the road's a bit damp, and there's a chap dressed in black, with tri-bars, no rear light just a bit too close for my liking (he eventually gets one from someone down Millbank).

:?

asprilla

cjcp wrote:

Asprilla wrote:

clarkey cat wrote:

no one would draft you anyway Asprilla you're too slow

I'm not wide enough either.

What's your excuse?

Less of a problem for me, right?

This morning: it's dark-ish, the road's a bit damp, and there's a chap dressed in black, with tri-bars, no rear light just a bit too close for my liking (he eventually gets one from someone down Millbank).

:?

You are weirdly sieve-like.

jedster

I don't like people wheel sucking. I dont know them, I dont want to worry about them if I have to brake or manouvre suddenly. But if I cant drop them I will ease off and force them to pass. I has one guy who tucked in just overlapping my back wheel. May be he knew what he was doing but just ridiculous behaviour. After about half a mile I just turned to him and said "are you coming past?". He actually said "no just drafting". "no you are not mate". SO he took off and I folloowed him at a sensible distance.

ON bright lights - I use a reasonably bright one on the unlit rural roads I commute on but it has a good beam shape and is angled down. What irritates me are bright lights set on flashing - that achieves nothing but retina burn - you are aware that there is something birght ahead but exactly where you have no idea! Idiots. even a low power light flashing will alert people to your presence and they will still be able to see!

Broccoli glider

I find that erratic braking behaviour soon gets rid of drafters.

What annoys me is when you go past someone who then overtakes again and cuts in front of you sharply, that's bad etiquette.

BigLights

OK i'm not really having a paranoia about wheelsucking then, thanks chaps. It's never felt like I'm too close, and always with plenty of room to brake etc. Also need to see any random bomb craters in the road, particularly CS7 which is a minefield.

What about just dropping a nuclear fart? Funny story on that - I once let one rip at the lights on Strand/Trafalgar Square (not an anti wheelsucking one) a while back. It was unexpectedly SO loud it echoed and turned a helluvalot of heads. Woops.

I'm not apologetic about my lights - they're flipping bright light cannons, but they get noticed by drivers. The main one is pretty much aimed so the top of the light beam is where a car side mirror would be if i'm in the blind spot, so you can't really miss me. The one on my helmet goes wherever I tell it to. It's interesting when I'm on the roadbike (which is just my helmet light), how noticeable it is that one doesn't quite get noticed by drivers and it is therefore logically a more dangerous situation from the bikers perspective. I don't think a pair of Knogg type efforts cut the mustard in a crowded commute with cars/buses behind you obscuring the view of someone pulling out ofa junction.

wandsworth

curium wrote:

Can I add; people who ride past cars to get to the ASL but then stop on the left of the road thus trapping following cyclists from entering the ASL which, in case they hadn't noticed, takes up the width of the carriageway!

I wish cyclists would spread out when entering the ASL as this allows fellow cyclists in and is a more effective way of slowing the acceleration of the cars behind which gives cyclists a chance to clip-in, get their balance and get away safely, which is the whole point of the ASLs, no?

Agree! I thought it was just me that found this irritating.

Lights - there's a guy who rides through Wandsworth Common (on the pedestrian path ... strictly shouldn't even be riding there) with a bonkers bright light facing to the horizon, blinding everyone.

Broccoli glider

I'm not apologetic about my lights - they're flipping bright light cannons, but they get noticed by drivers. The main one is pretty much aimed so the top of the light beam is where a car side mirror would be if i'm in the blind spot, so you can't really miss me.

All you're doing is blinding the driver as well, they have no idea how close or far away you are, ultimately you're just annoying people.