Are we living ?

ben@31

daviesee wrote:

dynamicbrick wrote:

Can someone point me to a time when the average person might be considered to actually be in this zen state of living?

Switch off computer. Go out on bike on a sunny day. Sorted. :P

Does zen come in carbon fibre?

ben@31

daviesee wrote:

ben@31 wrote:

Maybe you need to switch on the computer so you can make the money needed to buy the bike in the first place?

Chances are you already have the bike. Just not the one you want.
.

I know I don't NEED it but I would be more happier doing a triathlon with that Cervelo P2 triathlon bike that I cant afford yet, rather than a steel framed folding Brompton.

daviesee

ben@31 wrote:

I know I don't NEED it but I would be more happier doing a triathlon with that Cervelo P2 triathlon bike that I cant afford yet, rather than a steel framed folding Brompton.

No.
If doing a triathlon will bring you peace of mind then you need the appropriate equipment. A Ribble R872 possibly.
You want a Cervelo P2.

meursault

ben@31 wrote:

Unfortunately in our capitalist and consumerist society, the poor get poorer and the cost of living is forever increasing. That is why some people exist rather than live, they can't afford to.

I'd love to go to Majorca and live it up, cycling for months on end. But it costs money, the food costs money, the accommodation costs money, not to mention every single item of cycling kit.

The mexican fisherman maybe happy sat at home or going for a stroll, but if he wants to do something else he would never be able to buy that triathlon bike or scuba diving kit or holiday abroad.

Can a socialist utopia exist?

Utopia? Probably not. The thing to remember though, is Marx never argued for a utopia. He said Democratic Socialism would just be the next mode of production, before the one after that.

I have had countless 'debates' regarding this, and always happy to discuss it. I would advise anyone who is interested, to read Marx, Engels, Lenin, Tortsky etc. and not what other people interpret (propoganda) they said.

Cleat Eastwood

meursault wrote:

ben@31 wrote:

Unfortunately in our capitalist and consumerist society, the poor get poorer and the cost of living is forever increasing. That is why some people exist rather than live, they can't afford to.

I'd love to go to Majorca and live it up, cycling for months on end. But it costs money, the food costs money, the accommodation costs money, not to mention every single item of cycling kit.

The mexican fisherman maybe happy sat at home or going for a stroll, but if he wants to do something else he would never be able to buy that triathlon bike or scuba diving kit or holiday abroad.

Can a socialist utopia exist?

Utopia? Probably not. The thing to remember though, is Marx never argued for a utopia. He said Democratic Socialism would just be the next mode of production, before the one after that.

I have had countless 'debates' regarding this, and always happy to discuss it. I would advise anyone who is interested, to read Marx, Engels, Lenin, Tortsky etc. and not what other people interpret (propoganda) they said.

Totally agree - its a shame Marx has become synonymous with marxian 'revolutions' (which by and large tend to be no more than peeved middle class parvenus), as a social critique the communist manifesto is invaluable, flawed but invaluable, and its still astonishing to think that many of marx's observations are still in evidence today - indeed this very forum conforms to one of his obseravtions.

Its funny but in the conversations i've had anbout life and stuff most of the qualities people value are, you could say, marxist in outlook, and people cry out for change and better living conditions but are afraid to take the action needed to change things. I'd add to the reading list Gramsci, too, as in all things, they are just peoples obseravtions of life and society and any truth in them if it doesnt accord with yours can be dismissed. yours sincerely comrade cleat.

meursault

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

meursault wrote:

ben@31 wrote:

Unfortunately in our capitalist and consumerist society, the poor get poorer and the cost of living is forever increasing. That is why some people exist rather than live, they can't afford to.

I'd love to go to Majorca and live it up, cycling for months on end. But it costs money, the food costs money, the accommodation costs money, not to mention every single item of cycling kit.

The mexican fisherman maybe happy sat at home or going for a stroll, but if he wants to do something else he would never be able to buy that triathlon bike or scuba diving kit or holiday abroad.

Can a socialist utopia exist?

Utopia? Probably not. The thing to remember though, is Marx never argued for a utopia. He said Democratic Socialism would just be the next mode of production, before the one after that.

I have had countless 'debates' regarding this, and always happy to discuss it. I would advise anyone who is interested, to read Marx, Engels, Lenin, Tortsky etc. and not what other people interpret (propoganda) they said.

Totally agree - its a shame Marx has become synonymous with marxian 'revolutions' (which by and large tend to be no more than peeved middle class parvenus), as a social critique the communist manifesto is invaluable, flawed but invaluable, and its still astonishing to think that many of marx's observations are still in evidence today - indeed this very forum conforms to one of his obseravtions.

Its funny but in the conversations i've had anbout life and stuff most of the qualities people value are, you could say, marxist in outlook, and people cry out for change and better living conditions but are afraid to take the action needed to change things. I'd add to the reading list Gramsci, too, as in all things, they are just peoples obseravtions of life and society and any truth in them if it doesnt accord with yours can be dismissed. yours sincerely comrade cleat.

Nice one! Thanks for Gramsci rec, will definetly be getting some for the Kindle.

team47b

kindle, representing the outcome of the cultural hegemony and a means of maintaining the state in a capitalist society, middle class parvenu, as Gramsci I'm sure would have said

Phil Fouracre

OP was way too deep for me!! Seriously though, interesting. Personally, life is absolutely bloody great, nothing to do with having bu66er all money, possessions etc etc. Enjoy every minute of it - still on crutches after serious accident 10 months ago, but, was told I was expected to die. So make the most of everything, life is just too short!

meursault

team47b wrote:

kindle, representing the outcome of the cultural hegemony and a means of maintaining the state in a capitalist society, middle class parvenu, as Gramsci I'm sure would have said

Busted! :oops:

There are some socialist sects who don't even think you should take a wage, as it compliments/condescends? the system. Reality is, capitalism exists, you can't (seriously) live outside it.

ben@31

This really beautifully made animation is the best description of our capitalist banking system, that I have seen. Well worth a watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mII9NZ8MMVM

verylonglegs

meursault wrote:

team47b wrote:

kindle, representing the outcome of the cultural hegemony and a means of maintaining the state in a capitalist society, middle class parvenu, as Gramsci I'm sure would have said

Busted! :oops:

There are some socialist sects who don't even think you should take a wage, as it compliments/condescends? the system. Reality is, capitalism exists, you can't (seriously) live outside it.

Indeed, the fisherman tale represents both ends of the scale and most people want something that falls in between the two, you have the avaricious capitalist who wants to own and everything and the indolent fisherman who's lifestyle would actually be quite boring. Jobs are now dependent on us wanting shiny new gadgets and being consumers, quell that and you need to come up with another system of economic distribution. It's a conundrum that makes your head spin if you give it too much thought.

jawooga

I can't provide references, but 'studies have shown' that the happiest societies are those where the gap between rich and poor is the smallest. I'm fairly sure that the UK is low down that list. Don't get me wrong though, nowt wrong with aspiration.