Are we living ?

pinno

Need a cure for insomnia?, then read on.

Continuation of a theme...and I may be playing devils advocate here as we are alll cyclists and most cyclists I find tend to be a little more reticent and a little more considered than joe public/Jeremy Kyle fodder.

Now that I have massaged your ego's...

Do we live in a societal (UK) cocktail of hedonism, selfishness and the idea that life is just too precious?

People are predominantly going form work to their homes in isolation - in their cars, keeping 'themselves to themselves' sat on a train/bus and to a house that sits in isolation because you don't know your neighbour. You sit in front of the telly/computer watching or immersing yourself in junk until you go to bed so you can join the rigmarole again so that maybe you can get a 'better' car or ''better' house in a 'better' area.
Its all fine, because 'elf 'an safety have got everything else covered. They have minimised risk so that you can drift along without fear of anything adverse happening and if it does you'll 'bloody sue them anyway' thereby restoring the meandering nature of your existence or if the outcome is bad, justify it.

Just pop along to Spain during one of their fiestas - fireworks going off anywhere, anytime. Bonfires lit in the middle of the street and home brew lager in litre bottles sold cheap to get mashed on. No body gives a toss about the potential of risk to limb. Not an 'elf and safety officer or coercive policeman in sight, because, may I suggest,
they are living.
On a grand scale, our celebrations are initiated by the state and on a small scale we take refuge in a bing drinking session followed by a kebab and a good fight, rarely spontaneous or benign, mostly contrived.

So as a society are we exisiting and not living? Do we want to live forever because nothing is happening and something might happen even though in reality we don't actually want anything to happen because it just might question or compromise our existence(s) ?

tim_wand

Bloody hell Pinarello, have you turned into Willhub?

Book yourself a weeks riding in Majorca and go and do some 80kmh decents on sketchy gravel hairpins, you ll know if your living or not by then.

Lifes what you make it mate, stop taking it all so serious (Says the man who lost his rag in a previous thread)

Go back and re visit the Thread "In which my son gets a new bike for Christmas" by Rob Churchill, might re-new your faith a little.

chrisaonabike

pinarello001 wrote:

Do we live in a societal (UK) cocktail of hedonism

I wish...

daviesee

pinarello001 wrote:

So as a society are we exisiting and not living?

To answer this shortened version of the question, most people - Yes.

It is up to the individual to live.

I do see the irony of making this response while sat in my home on the laptop.

tim_wand

daviesee wrote:

pinarello001 wrote:

So as a society are we exisiting and not living?

To answer this shortened version of the question, most people - Yes.

It is up to the individual to live.

I do see the irony of making this response while sat in my home on the laptop.

Ah!!! Your just tossing it off. Time that is, its a metaphor honest!!!

daviesee

tim wand wrote:

Ah!!! Your just tossing it off. Time that is, its a metaphor honest!!!

Nice cross to the post!

meursault

So as a society are we exisiting and not living? Do we want to live forever because nothing is happening and something might happen even though in reality we don't actually want anything to happen because it just might question or compromise our existence(s) ?

Barely existing IMHO. We are conditioned to be consumers, with no questions asked. It does sadden me too.

This classic story sums it up. I am sure you have seen it before, but for anyone who hasn't.




A Little Story


The businessman was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The businessman complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them. The Mexican replied only a little while.

The businessman then asked why he didn't stay out longer and catch more fish? The Mexican said he had enough to support his family's immediate needs. The businessman then asked, but what do you do with the rest of your time? The Mexican fisherman said, "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take a siesta with my wife, Maria, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos; I have a full and busy life, señor."






The businessman scoffed, "I am a Harvard MBA and I could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats; eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman, you would sell directly to the processor and eventually open your own cannery. You would control the product, processing and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then LA and eventually New York City where you would run your expanding enterprise."





The Mexican fisherman asked, "But señor, how long will this all take?" To which the businessman replied, "15-20 years." "But what then, señor?" The businessman laughed and said, "That's the best part! When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich. You would make millions." "Millions, señor? Then what?" The businessman said, "Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take a siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos."

The fisherman, still smiling, looked up and said, "Isn't that what I'm doing right now?"

-Author Unknown

ben@31

Unfortunately in our capitalist and consumerist society, the poor get poorer and the cost of living is forever increasing. That is why some people exist rather than live, they can't afford to.

I'd love to go to Majorca and live it up, cycling for months on end. But it costs money, the food costs money, the accommodation costs money, not to mention every single item of cycling kit.

The mexican fisherman maybe happy sat at home or going for a stroll, but if he wants to do something else he would never be able to buy that triathlon bike or scuba diving kit or holiday abroad.

Can a socialist utopia exist?

tim_wand

ben@31 wrote:

Unfortunately in our capitalist and consumerist society, the poor get poorer and the cost of living is forever increasing. That is why some people exist rather than live, they can't afford to.

I'd love to go to Majorca and live it up, cycling for months on end. But it costs money, the food costs money, the accommodation costs money, not to mention every single item of cycling kit.

The mexican fisherman maybe happy sat at home or going for a stroll, but he would never be able to buy that triathlon bike or scuba diving kit.

Can a socialist utopia exist?

Thats the real issue, too many people confuse " want or would like" with need, and this has been promoted by the capitalist market.

I am in my 40's Male , Living in an affluent european society, I have a mortgage on my own home, a couple of holidays a year, a beautiful wife (wherever she may be) a healthy child, a car, enough bikes,

That probably puts me globally in the top 5% of human beings on Earth in terms of material possesions.

Just watch an Oxfam or Red Cross ad to see what it is you really Need and not just want.

(Sorry to come across all Ralph Mctell, but some of us dont know were born)

Frank the tank

Well said Tim Wand.

That's about as concise as it can be.

peat

pinarello001 wrote:

On a grand scale, our celebrations are initiated by the state and on a small scale we take refuge in a bing drinking session followed by a kebab and a good fight, rarely spontaneous or benign, mostly contrived.

That made me 'lol' (as the kids say). Very true.

I think we have sleepwalked ourselves into a world where death/injury is unacceptable and that any form of risk is seen as reckless. It's sad. How do people think we got to where we are today? If we didn't take risks, homosapien wouldn't have ventured from the cave.

There is a counter-culture to this though. There is an internet meme of '#YOLO' (You Only Live Once) which is appearing everywhere. But, it's tragically mis-used. That tag belongs to people who push the envelope of existence and do extraordinary things/achievements. Not someone riding a skateboard off a curb or getting pissed to the point of vomiting.

Broken society.

BelgianBeerGeek

A skinful of beer and a kebab? This is what my grandparents fought Hitler for!

freddiegrubb

This is deep & may run for some time.

Phil Fouracre

Deep! on this forum? Interesting - sounds old hat, but, life is what you make it - your choice. Must be getting old or could be just survived serious accident and have decided to re-evaluate my life, now that is deep...

team47b

I was thinking about this thread as I dug a hole this morning for my cat that died in the night(only 2 years old), he always had everything he needed so was content, probably unaware of things called wants.

When you are content you are living, when you have wants you are existing.

'bout as deep as it gets.

ben@31

team47b wrote:

I was thinking about this thread as I dug a hole this morning for my cat that died in the night(only 2 years old), he always had everything he needed so was content, probably unaware of things called wants.

When you are content you are living, when you have wants you are existing.

'bout as deep as it gets.

In my opinion its the other way round.

Needs = Existing
Wants = Living

Is it wrong to aspire to having some wants? Rather than living your life with nothing?

daviesee

ben@31 wrote:

Is it wrong to aspire to having some wants? Rather than living your life with nothing?

I believe that the point was that while you are aspiring, others are living.
You don't need much to be happy.......
Enjoy what you have......
Making the best of what you have is better than wanting the best....
Etc, etc....
Nothing wrong with aspiring, just don't let it get in the way.

team47b

that was my point.

I said "When you are content you are living, when you have wants you are existing"

I meant when you have what you need and need what you have, you can feel content, you can then live your life.

When you don't feel like this you are not living your life you are just waiting for the time when your wants are met.

(Maybe we all have a different understanding of the meaning of the words want and need, I meant needs being distinguished from wants because a deficiency would cause a negative outcome.)

Cleat Eastwood

Your cat wanted feeding and you needed to feed it - it can't live on courgettes alone.

pinno

tim wand wrote:

Bloody hell Pinarello, have you turned into Willhub?...Book yourself a weeks riding in Majorca and go and do some 80kmh decents on sketchy gravel hairpins, you ll know if your living or not by then...Lifes what you make it mate, stop taking it all so serious (Says the man who lost his rag in a previous thread)

Ya plonker. I did say I was playing devils advocate.

I had a few brushes with death and 11 years of hospitalisation. I was told I would never be a dad. At one point I was told I may never walk properly again. I cycle, I have two gorgeous daughters, I like my job and I coach table tennis. Life has been bloody tough and I appreciate it. Having seen the poverty in Kenya, I appreciate that we in the West have too much actually but despite this people (in the UK) rarely show spontaneous happiness like they do in the 3rd world.
This post was purely observational - when you look at people in their everyday lives, their manner and body language smacks of depression. Have we got a pandemic of depression? Is this linked to the fact that we have stopped 'living'? Is it also linked to the lack of or sense of community ?

Deep, yes. :shock:

pinno

Team47b - sorry about your cat. I've buried a few but always like to think I gave those animals a great life. All our moggies have been castaways. Castaways appreciate life more. Funny that.

Cleat Eastwood

pinarello001 wrote:

I've buried a few

Yeah but that was for pleasure

I've met people from all walks of life from stoke to millionaire and whats amazing is they all share the same anxieties - they live and/or exist but IMO they don't experience life, people still have a fear of being themselves, or of taking the time to find out who they actually are.

Anyway, one difference about cultures abroad, the sunny climed ones is that the warm weather is a natural soporific- over here the cold makes you tighten up, and hurry about, its a cack country and no mistake guv, but at least we're nice to cats.

tim_wand

pinarello001 wrote:

tim wand wrote:

Bloody hell Pinarello, have you turned into Willhub?...Book yourself a weeks riding in Majorca and go and do some 80kmh decents on sketchy gravel hairpins, you ll know if your living or not by then...Lifes what you make it mate, stop taking it all so serious (Says the man who lost his rag in a previous thread)

Ya plonker. I did say I was playing devils advocate.

I had a few brushes with death and 11 years of hospitalisation. I was told I would never be a dad. At one point I was told I may never walk properly again. I cycle, I have two gorgeous daughters, I like my job and I coach table tennis. Life has been bloody tough and I appreciate it. Having seen the poverty in Kenya, I appreciate that we in the West have too much actually but despite this people (in the UK) rarely show spontaneous happiness like they do in the 3rd world.
This post was purely observational - when you look at people in their everyday lives, their manner and body language smacks of depression. Have we got a pandemic of depression? Is this linked to the fact that we have stopped 'living'? Is it also linked to the lack of or sense of community ?

Deep, yes. :shock:

Fair play buddy. I know you were just trying to put some philisophical prospective to the nay sayers we all experience in life, I wasnt suggesting you were one of them (Although the jury's still out on Will)

Only Six months ago the nation seemed to be on a collective high due to the Jubolympics effect. Shame sustainability didnt spread to the collective consciousness and nations mood.

Theres nothing wrong in being aspirational, but I think the "X Factor" instant gratuity society we are developing in the West really is destructive to proper human values. I had hoped the example of the Olympics would change peoples prospectives.

I work in Education with young people, and it is rare nowaday to find a young person with ambitions beyond wanting to be the next Ryland or Kim Khardashian.

We need role models like Ennis and Wiggo or even Alan Sugar, we shouldnt be ashamed of success or aspiration .

I have dependents which have (no regrets) conditioned me to a certain style of living, but without coming over all hippy, I m sure I d be a lot happier self sustaining on a croft somewhere in the Scottish Isles.

cornerblock

pinarello001 wrote:

So as a society are we exisiting and not living? Do we want to live forever because nothing is happening and something might happen even though in reality we don't actually want anything to happen because it just might question or compromise our existence(s) ?

That post-ban awareness course the mods sent you on has clearly got you thinking deeply man.

Some good points made. I do find that living in a very materialistic society gets people down. Either because they're the type who are unable to obtain the things they think they need, so believe that somehow their life is incomplete without the latest 'must have' item, or maybe because they're just the opposite and find all this 'must have' attitude rather depressing.

Watching the African Cup Of Nations the other day I couldn't help but notice how much happier the people in the crowd looked and how much fun they were having compared to a typical crowd here (admittedly it could have been because the cameras were on them). I think too many people in this society have forgotten how to enjoy the simple things in life, like riding a bike for example.

dynamicbrick

Can someone point me to a time when the average person might be considered to actually be in this zen state of living?

daviesee

dynamicbrick wrote:

Can someone point me to a time when the average person might be considered to actually be in this zen state of living?

Switch off computer. Go out on bike on a sunny day. Sorted. :P

ben@31

daviesee wrote:

dynamicbrick wrote:

Can someone point me to a time when the average person might be considered to actually be in this zen state of living?

Switch off computer. Go out on bike on a sunny day. Sorted. :P

Maybe you need to switch on the computer so you can make the money needed to buy the bike in the first place?

team47b

dynamicbrick wrote:

Can someone point me to a time when the average person might be considered to actually be in this zen state of living?

Being 'in the moment' is the usual way to assess this state, hence the need to stop thinking about future events ie the 'wants' and go out on the bike.

daviesee

ben@31 wrote:

Maybe you need to switch on the computer so you can make the money needed to buy the bike in the first place?

Chances are you already have the bike. Just not the one you want.
Other alternatives:-
Switch off the TV and play with your children. Or read them a book. Simple pleasures.
Most sense of well being tends to happen when electronic devices are not involved. Fact.

tim_wand

daviesee wrote:

ben@31 wrote:

Maybe you need to switch on the computer so you can make the money needed to buy the bike in the first place?

Chances are you already have the bike. Just not the one you want.
Other alternatives:-
Switch off the TV and play with your children. Or read them a book. Simple pleasures.
Most sense of well being tends to happen when electronic devices are not involved. Fact.

Thats what I ve been trying to tell the Wife, but ever since that Ann Summers party she's not convinced

daviesee

tim wand wrote:

Thats what I ve been trying to tell the Wife, but ever since that Ann Summers party she's not convinced

Ah! the predictable response.
In which case the predictable retort is stop blaming the tools and MTFU.