Session Comparison HELP!! After set-up Change
Hurricane151
Posts: 632
Today i repeated a session that I completed on Tuesday. Same duration, similar efforts etc the only change is that I have altered the position of my Q rings.
I am having trouble comapring the two sessions to see (very roughly) which poition is benefiting me most.
The session was completed on the rollers and was 60mins in power zone 3 with 15s efforts every 5 mins. The main reason I changed the position is that I seemed to be limited on the max cadence and it was suggested I was hitting the power to late in the rotation so I adjust the q's based on advice from Rotor and re did the test.
Sesssion Comparison
As you can see from the numbers my cadence has inproved along with my speed but my power has dropped. I am confused as to which is better for me to build on.
I realise this is not a lab test and there could be some other factors ( including i pumped up my front tyre inbetween tests) but i was looking for some general thoughts on which seerves as the best results Tuesdau or Thursday.
Cheers
I am having trouble comapring the two sessions to see (very roughly) which poition is benefiting me most.
The session was completed on the rollers and was 60mins in power zone 3 with 15s efforts every 5 mins. The main reason I changed the position is that I seemed to be limited on the max cadence and it was suggested I was hitting the power to late in the rotation so I adjust the q's based on advice from Rotor and re did the test.
Sesssion Comparison
As you can see from the numbers my cadence has inproved along with my speed but my power has dropped. I am confused as to which is better for me to build on.
I realise this is not a lab test and there could be some other factors ( including i pumped up my front tyre inbetween tests) but i was looking for some general thoughts on which seerves as the best results Tuesdau or Thursday.
Cheers
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Comments
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The next best step for you is actually some professional coaching advice to get the best out of the equipment, including yourself and your legs.0
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JGSI wrote:The next best step for you is actually some professional coaching advice to get the best out of the equipment, including yourself and your legs.
I would love that but that's not cheap and at the end of the day i'm just an amatuer wannabe racer who's trying to get a little bit more from what i have. That's maybe why i'm just confused as to which is the better set of numbers.0 -
Depends what you mean by cheap, but I bet you've spent more on kit than a couple of years of coaching would cost...........0
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danowat wrote:Depends what you mean by cheap, but I bet you've spent more on kit than a couple of years of coaching would cost...........
Yeah you are probably right. but are we saying the only way i can understand this data is by getting a coach?
I was hoping some of the experienced power users on here would be able to spot which combination of power, cadence speed etc is the better.0 -
What do you mean 'better'? There is nothing here that could point to your ability to put out power, which is what you are aiming for.
Why did you think your max cadence was an issue?
edit
Speed is irrelevant here. In the examples, were the max power and cadences achieved at the same time?0 -
You are looking at a very small set of data, not really enough to come to a reasoned conclusion (IMO) any HR data to add?, also, the proximity of the tests could skew things, its possible you were fresher on tues than thurs.
FTR, I am not convinced by oval rings personally.........0 -
It was mainly down to being out of control and bouncing at the higher cadences so I thought altering the position might smooth my pedal stroke out.
It appears to me for increased Cadence in the new position I can improve speed but can't hit the power peak as I could previously.
It might be that neither is better for general racing / riding but that is where I'm confused.
Probably not explaining myself very well, apologies.0 -
Hurricane151 wrote:Today i repeated a session that I completed on Tuesday. Same duration, similar efforts etc the only change is that I have altered the position of my Q rings.
I am having trouble comapring the two sessions to see (very roughly) which poition is benefiting me most.
The session was completed on the rollers and was 60mins in power zone 3 with 15s efforts every 5 mins. The main reason I changed the position is that I seemed to be limited on the max cadence and it was suggested I was hitting the power to late in the rotation so I adjust the q's based on advice from Rotor and re did the test.
Sesssion Comparison
As you can see from the numbers my cadence has inproved along with my speed but my power has dropped. I am confused as to which is better for me to build on.
I realise this is not a lab test and there could be some other factors ( including i pumped up my front tyre inbetween tests) but i was looking for some general thoughts on which seerves as the best results Tuesdau or Thursday.
Cheers
Why are you interested in max power? What events are you aiming at? Unless you are training for match sprint or kilo and even then you want to look at sustainable power, even if it is only for 10 or so seconds.0 -
Tom Dean wrote:What do you mean 'better'? There is nothing here that could point to your ability to put out power, which is what you are aiming for.
Why did you think your max cadence was an issue?
edit
Speed is irrelevant here. In the examples, were the max power and cadences achieved at the same time?
If Speed is irrelevant then i would assume that the tuesday set-up is better due to the higher power peaks or is just a huge over-simplification??0 -
Trev The Rev wrote:Why are you interested in max power? What events are you aiming at? Unless you are training for match sprint or kilo and even then you want to look at sustainable power, even if it is only for 10 or so seconds.
I guess I am just using that as an example as they are the only two sessions that I have completed that are similar since the switch.
I do need to understand the sustainable power more as it is road and crit racing that I am training for.
I have probably simply confused myself over this but just want to make sure changiong things isn't going to be a negative thing. Obviously not an easy answer and I asume more data is required. I could post the two sessions from Garmin if anyone wants to look in more detail0 -
Hurricane151 wrote:It appears to me for increased Cadence in the new position I can improve speed but can't hit the power peak as I could previously.
Forget about the speed difference, this only tells you about your rollers (and your pumped up tyre), not about what YOU did.0 -
Tom Dean wrote:Hurricane151 wrote:It appears to me for increased Cadence in the new position I can improve speed but can't hit the power peak as I could previously.
Forget about the speed difference, this only tells you about your rollers (and your pumped up tyre), not about what YOU did.
So in that case as the peak power was hit at a higher cadence I am better off with the first set up where I am able to hit a higher power at a lower cadence??????0 -
The figures here don't seem to match with the table you posted.Hurricane151 wrote:0 -
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Tom Dean wrote:
The figures here don't seem to match with the table you posted.Hurricane151 wrote:
They should do, I took them from the peaks on the graphs as i didn't have the splits / laps set on the garmin. If you open out the graphs (top right of the graphs) for speed, cadence and power the peaks should be more visible.0 -
danowat wrote:
Yeah i guess then they aren't really comparable then. That was a mental thing as i probably "wanted" to see an improvement hence why i just went of the peaks as the rest of the session was done at a bit more effort.
I might stop being concerned about it and just ride my bike!! but just haveing that niggle in the back of my mind is annoying0 -
I was looking at the max power and max cadence from the summaries on the left.
Whatever, these kind of sessions are not the best to use as a fitness test. Better to use something with fewer variables like e.g. 20 mins all-out.
As I understand the thinking behind q rings, they are not meant to be an instant boost, rather you are meant to train in and gradually get used to the new way of pedalling(...). Presumably this would mean a reduction in power output on the first use. A bit of a leap of faith I suppose.0 -
Tom Dean wrote:I was looking at the max power and max cadence from the summaries on the left.
Whatever, these kind of sessions are not the best to use as a fitness test. Better to use something with fewer variables like e.g. 20 mins all-out.
As I understand the thinking behind q rings, they are not meant to be an instant boost, rather you are meant to train in and gradually get used to the new way of pedalling(...). Presumably this would mean a reduction in power output on the first use. A bit of a leap of faith I suppose.
I guess so. I have been using them all winter and used them when i did my FTP test. I guess I should re-test in a week or so and see how they compare. Might be a better indicator as to which position is best for power delivery.0 -
Hurricane151 wrote:Trev The Rev wrote:Why are you interested in max power? What events are you aiming at? Unless you are training for match sprint or kilo and even then you want to look at sustainable power, even if it is only for 10 or so seconds.
I guess I am just using that as an example as they are the only two sessions that I have completed that are similar since the switch.
I do need to understand the sustainable power more as it is road and crit racing that I am training for.
I have probably simply confused myself over this but just want to make sure changiong things isn't going to be a negative thing. Obviously not an easy answer and I asume more data is required. I could post the two sessions from Garmin if anyone wants to look in more detail
Mate, don't take this the wrong way, but I can't resist pointing out that understanding sustainable power won't make you go faster. More data won't make you faster but more sustainable power will make you faster.
Personally with my tongue very much in my cheek you are in danger of getting bogged down in all the numbers.
What are you using to measure power?0 -
Trev The Rev wrote:Hurricane151 wrote:Trev The Rev wrote:Why are you interested in max power? What events are you aiming at? Unless you are training for match sprint or kilo and even then you want to look at sustainable power, even if it is only for 10 or so seconds.
I guess I am just using that as an example as they are the only two sessions that I have completed that are similar since the switch.
I do need to understand the sustainable power more as it is road and crit racing that I am training for.
I have probably simply confused myself over this but just want to make sure changiong things isn't going to be a negative thing. Obviously not an easy answer and I asume more data is required. I could post the two sessions from Garmin if anyone wants to look in more detail
Mate, don't take this the wrong way, but I can't resist pointing out that understanding sustainable power won't make you go faster. More data won't make you faster but more sustainable power will make you faster.
Personally with my tongue very much in my cheek you are in danger of getting bogged down in all the numbers.
What are you using to measure power?
I have a powertap. I would have prefered a quarq or similar but funds don't allow!
You are right about being bogged down and this has been an issue for me in the past but i like to have the numbers there to structure sessions around as I train better on that type of session, it's just the way i'm wired.
I do have a pretty varied training week focussing on long intervals and some shorter ones once a week and i'll be introducing top end interval stuff at the end of the month. I guess i just want to do what I can to get the most out of my training as this is the first year i'm really having a go at racing but not got many more years left at it so don't want to waste all the time.0 -
Hurricane151 wrote:Trev The Rev wrote:Hurricane151 wrote:Trev The Rev wrote:Why are you interested in max power? What events are you aiming at? Unless you are training for match sprint or kilo and even then you want to look at sustainable power, even if it is only for 10 or so seconds.
I guess I am just using that as an example as they are the only two sessions that I have completed that are similar since the switch.
I do need to understand the sustainable power more as it is road and crit racing that I am training for.
I have probably simply confused myself over this but just want to make sure changiong things isn't going to be a negative thing. Obviously not an easy answer and I asume more data is required. I could post the two sessions from Garmin if anyone wants to look in more detail
Mate, don't take this the wrong way, but I can't resist pointing out that understanding sustainable power won't make you go faster. More data won't make you faster but more sustainable power will make you faster.
Personally with my tongue very much in my cheek you are in danger of getting bogged down in all the numbers.
What are you using to measure power?
I have a powertap. I would have prefered a quarq or similar but funds don't allow!
You are right about being bogged down and this has been an issue for me in the past but i like to have the numbers there to structure sessions around as I train better on that type of session, it's just the way i'm wired.
I do have a pretty varied training week focussing on long intervals and some shorter ones once a week and i'll be introducing top end interval stuff at the end of the month. I guess i just want to do what I can to get the most out of my training as this is the first year i'm really having a go at racing but not got many more years left at it so don't want to waste all the time.
At least you are getting bogged down with real numbers. Hope it goes well for you.0 -
Below are some numbers for a 2 x 20 session, differences shown in Yellow for the work intervals
It looks to me that for a very similar ave heart rate I am producing more power and a greater average speed on the new set up at similar cadences and therefore the new set up better.
Sound correct?????
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