What's the difference between 11spd crankset and 10spd?

Gabbo

As far as I'm aware, an 11-speed double crankset could be 53.39t as could a 10-speed crankset. So, what is the difference?

I've been looking at an 10 and 11 speed cranksets online and noticed one difference - BCB. What is BCB? For 11-speed it's 110m whereas it's 130mm for 10-speed.

Question is, could I run an 11-speed crankset with a 10-speed groupo?

Gabbo

Ok, I read something along the lines that on the 11-speed crankset, the chain rings will be positioned closer together than on the 10 speed crankset. This is because of the narrower sprockets of the cassette. Also an 11-speed chain is narrower than a 10 speed chain.

My concern is, would a 10 speed chain work without any problems on a 11-speed cassette? There have been thoughts that the chain would rub against the larger chainring when on the smaller ring itself.

Would anyone like to expand on this and /or clear things up?

g00se

Campag or Shimano?

g00se

BCB? Do you mean BCD - bolt circle diameter? 130 is the standard size for Shimano double chainsets, and 110 is the standard for Shimano compact chainsets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crankset#B ... _.28BCD.29

Don't know about Shimano - but Campag 11 speed cassettes are the same width as 10 speed - so the gap between the sprockets are smaller. This requires a smaller chain. With Campag, the separation between the chainrings are the same, so you can mix 10 and 11 speed chainsets without issue. I'm not sure if the front mech will need changing - the 11 speed may have the side plates closer together due to the narrower chain.

I recall that the Shimano 11 speed cassette is wider than the 10 speed (hence the need for new rear hubs) so it might be that the pitch between the sprockets is the same and a 10 speed may work.

Gabbo

Its the FSA crankset BB30 if that helps?

smidsy

Allegedly the tooth shape and pickup ramps are different on the new 11 speed chainsets - but like most things, in reality it will probably make bugger all difference.!!!!!

Grill

g00se wrote:

BCB? Do you mean BCD - bolt circle diameter? 130 is the standard size for Shimano double chainsets, and 110 is the standard for Shimano compact chainsets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crankset#B ... _.28BCD.29

Don't know about Shimano - but Campag 11 speed cassettes are the same width as 10 speed - so the gap between the sprockets are smaller. This requires a smaller chain. With Campag, the separation between the chainrings are the same, so you can mix 10 and 11 speed chainsets without issue. I'm not sure if the front mech will need changing - the 11 speed may have the side plates closer together due to the narrower chain.

I recall that the Shimano 11 speed cassette is wider than the 10 speed (hence the need for new rear hubs) so it might be that the pitch between the sprockets is the same and a 10 speed may work.

Dura Ace 9000 uses a propriety 110 BCD on all chainsets, so you can actually swap between compact and standard rings.

Gabbo

Right, so last night I ordered an 11-speed crankset thinking it was 10-speed compatible after reading the description. It is FSA 53.39t bb30 and has a BCD of 110mm whereas the 10-speed has a BCD of 130mm. Will this be compatible with my 10 speed mechs, chain, cassette, and hub? Thanks

g00se

Ok - my curiosity has been piqued (probably due to it being 9am and a work day).

I don't think the BCD has any bearing on it - only on what after-market replacement chainrings you can use. The BCD defines the positions of the chainring bolts - so you would need to get replacement chainrings with the same BCD.


For 11 speed Campag, the front mech and chain need the chainring spacing to be the same as 10 speed (by spacing I mean the horizontal distance between the two rings). HOWEVER, officially, the machined rampings on the inside of the larger 11-speed chainring are a little bit shallower - supposedly to help with the slightly different width and shape of the chain plates. The Campag website says you can use a 10 speed chainset with an 11-speed system if you just change the chainrings.

To this end, FSA sell Campag-ramped 11-speed chainrings to work with their existing chainsets - so that they officially comply with the Campag 11-speed specification.

Saying that, anecdotal evidence is that it doesn't matter. regular 10-speed ramping seems to work with an 11-speed chain.

So I guess the reverse is the same - there seem to be a few posts on forums that say it will work fine. And if you find the shifting not up to scratch, you could always replace the chainrings with FSA 10-speed specific one - provided they are the same BCD.

Do you have a link to the chainset on the site you bought it from?

Gabbo

Absolutely: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=90276

Why I thought it said it was 10-speed compatible is beyond me!

g00se

Gabbo wrote:

Absolutely: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=90276

Why I thought it said it was 10-speed compatible is beyond me!

The phrase '110 BCD' in the description is just a cut and paste from the compact chainset blurb. The 52.39 will be 130 - have a look at FSA website.

Give them a go - fingers crossed it will work. If the shifting isn't good enough, you can get replacement 10 speed rings and sell yours as nearly new.

Of course, you could just return them for free and get a full refund. Then get the 10 speed version if you want to be sure. They seem to be going for £20 quid more.

Gabbo

g00se wrote:

Gabbo wrote:

Absolutely: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=90276

Why I thought it said it was 10-speed compatible is beyond me!

The phrase '110 BCD' in the description is just a cut and paste from the compact chainset blurb. The 52.39 will be 130 - have a look at FSA website.

Give them a go - fingers crossed it will work. If the shifting isn't good enough, you can get replacement 10 speed rings and sell yours as nearly new.

Of course, you could just return them for free and get a full refund. Then get the 10 speed version if you want to be sure. They seem to be going for £20 quid more.

True, but they don't sell the 10-speed with 175mm crankarms. Not sure how much difference 2.5mm will make, though (172.5mm)

g00se

Personally, I don't think moving from 175 to 172.5 will be noticeable (other than raising your seatpost the same amount) - and I think some folks tend to use too long a crank anyway. The arguments go that shorter cranks suit spinners and longer ones for grinders - and some say its really down to leg length. I went down to 165s and couldn't tell the difference from 170s (I'm a 5'9" spinner).

Dess1e

g00se wrote:

Personally, I don't think moving from 175 to 172.5 will be noticeable (other than raising your seatpost the same amount) - and I think some folks tend to use too long a crank anyway. The arguments go that shorter cranks suit spinners and longer ones for grinders - and some say its really down to leg length. I went down to 165s and couldn't tell the difference from 170s (I'm a 5'9" spinner).

I'm sure you meant lowering the seatpost :roll:

g00se

Dess1e wrote:

g00se wrote:

Personally, I don't think moving from 175 to 172.5 will be noticeable (other than raising your seatpost the same amount) - and I think some folks tend to use too long a crank anyway. The arguments go that shorter cranks suit spinners and longer ones for grinders - and some say its really down to leg length. I went down to 165s and couldn't tell the difference from 170s (I'm a 5'9" spinner).

I'm sure you meant lowering the seatpost :roll:

No, if the crank arm is shorter, the pedal is higher at the bottom of the stroke - so the seat needs to rise.

Gabbo

I've just taken receipt of this 11-speed crankset and can tell you that the clearance difference from my previous crankset is 1mm from the small to large chainring. I'm hoping that this shouldn't be much of an issue. As long as my chain does not rub when in 39 and shifts well, I'll deem it compatible!

Can only find out!

Beautiful crankset though, really beautiful! Worth keeping for the crank arms alone!

arewethereyet??

Hi, is there an update? Did the 11spd chainset work perfectly fine with the 10 speed chain?

Thanks

rayjay

Is it 1 speed

markhewitt1978

I've been thinking of replacing my 10 speed R565 chainset with Ultegra for a while and I fancy the new 11 speed 6800 chainset, but everything else is staying with 10 speed. A lot of people say that it works fine, or should I just get the 6700 chainset.

darkhairedlord

markhewitt1978 wrote:

I've been thinking of replacing my 10 speed R565 chainset with Ultegra for a while and I fancy the new 11 speed 6800 chainset, but everything else is staying with 10 speed. A lot of people say that it works fine, or should I just get the 6700 chainset.

The problem I see with the 6800 is you can't fit other make chainrings when they wear out, hence captive market, hence really expensive rings! If you go with the 6700 at least you can fit just about any make chainring when it wears out.

Grill

darkhairedlord wrote:

markhewitt1978 wrote:

I've been thinking of replacing my 10 speed R565 chainset with Ultegra for a while and I fancy the new 11 speed 6800 chainset, but everything else is staying with 10 speed. A lot of people say that it works fine, or should I just get the 6700 chainset.

The problem I see with the 6800 is you can't fit other make chainrings when they wear out, hence captive market, hence really expensive rings! If you go with the 6700 at least you can fit just about any make chainring when it wears out.

Only a matter of time until Praxis, Rotor and all the others make rings.

apreading

Grill wrote:

Dura Ace 9000 uses a propriety 110 BCD on all chainsets, so you can actually swap between compact and standard rings.

Now THAT's a good idea...!

Pross

apreading wrote:

Grill wrote:

Dura Ace 9000 uses a propriety 110 BCD on all chainsets, so you can actually swap between compact and standard rings.

Now THAT's a good idea...!

It's not exactly new, I believe it used to be the standard back in the 70s. I assume the reason for increasing the BCD was to provide more stiffness?

Grill

Pross wrote:

apreading wrote:

Grill wrote:

Dura Ace 9000 uses a propriety 110 BCD on all chainsets, so you can actually swap between compact and standard rings.

Now THAT's a good idea...!

It's not exactly new, I believe it used to be the standard back in the 70s. I assume the reason for increasing the BCD was to provide more stiffness?

I wouldn't doubt it. The beauty of modern engineering is that we can make things that were just okay 40 years ago really great now.

liviutoader

Question is, could I run an 11-speed crankset with a 10-speed groupo?

Now I have a SRAM Force 10 speed group with a FSA energy compact crankset on english thread. I'm thinking to upgrade the crankset to SRAM RED Exogram. Is it make a difference if I buy 10 speed crankset or 11 speed crankset? The 11 speed seems to have a better price now. I know I'll have to buy a new "yaw" derailleur in both cases.

iPete

markhewitt1978 wrote:

I've been thinking of replacing my 10 speed R565 chainset with Ultegra for a while and I fancy the new 11 speed 6800 chainset, but everything else is staying with 10 speed. A lot of people say that it works fine, or should I just get the 6700 chainset.

I'm running a 6800 chainset on 6700 parts with 5700 shifters. All is good. I really wanted the 52/36 option hence 6800.

dj58

markhewitt1978 wrote:

I've been thinking of replacing my 10 speed R565 chainset with Ultegra for a while and I fancy the new 11 speed 6800 chainset, but everything else is staying with 10 speed. A lot of people say that it works fine, or should I just get the 6700 chainset.

If you are staying with 10sp for the rest of your transmission stick with the FC-6700 or FC-6750 if it is a compact.
I recently swopped my R565 for a FC-6750, lighter and stiffer, a good upgrade and looks nicer too IMO.

mm1

I'm running an 11speed (Athena) crankset with a 9 speed drive train on one of my bikes - its an old bike and I wanted to fit a compact, the 11 speed Athena was the cheapest I could find at the time and it works fine.

I've also built a cross bike, in part using old components that I had lying round in the shed, running 10 speed chainset, chain, casette and ergos with 11 speed front and rear derailleurs - this set up works perfectly. The one thing that I couldn't dial in perfectly was an 11 speed Chorus rear mech with 9 speed ergos, chain and cassette, this may have been something to do with cable pull ratios, or may simply be because I'd reached the limit of mechanical competence and patience.

BCD means bolt circle diameter, which is smaller on compact chainsets to allow smaller chain rings to be fitted - it has nothing to do with gear spacing.

markhewitt1978

Since I last posted I did fit a 6800 '11 speed' chainset on an otherwise 10 speed 6700 setup. Works perfectly and front shifting is easy.

azurebl911

liviutoader wrote:

Question is, could I run an 11-speed crankset with a 10-speed groupo?

Now I have a SRAM Force 10 speed group with a FSA energy compact crankset on english thread. I'm thinking to upgrade the crankset to SRAM RED Exogram. Is it make a difference if I buy 10 speed crankset or 11 speed crankset? The 11 speed seems to have a better price now. I know I'll have to buy a new "yaw" derailleur in both cases.

I will be finding out if my 10-speed RED Exogram crank will work with a Shimano 9070 drive train. Why? Because Dura Ace 9000 cranks are on back order until Aug 2014 (WTF!!!!).

If you think about it logically, the compatibility concern is really between the chain and the chainrings (front derailleur does not give a f***, really). Specifically, three things matter 1) spacing of the teeth 2) shape of the shift ramps and 3) spacing between big and small ring. I don't think #1 is an issue. #3 shouldn't be an issue either because TT rings go up to 55-58T and the chain doesn't move enough to rub those. I will have to report back on #2 but it isn't too much of a concern for me because I ride a TT bike so will just have to be little more careful when shifting. Worst comes worst I lose a few seconds into T2. It's not like I miss the back of a breakaway or anything...

btw - I can say with a good degree of confidence that "yaw" or no "yaw" will not make a difference. Yaw is nice 'cause you don't have to trim. They will both shift.

arran77

Right, old thread resurrection time, sorry!!

I'm in the process of going from 10 speed campag to 11 speed (Super Record).

I've bought new front and rear mechs, shifters, cassette and chain but I'm hoping that I don't need to replace my FSA K Force Light crankset (50/34).

What's people's thoughts on this?