Spds and helmet

Grinner1982

Can anyone recommend a good pair of shimano spds with pedal,and a good helmet
Not got a massive budget about £100 for both.

simon_masterson

Value-wise, I think you'll struggle to beat the DHB MTB shoes:

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/dhb-m10-mountai ... ling-shoe/

I haven't used them, but they are very popular and get good reviews. It's not ideal that you can't try them on, though.

For pedals, I want to recommend the Shimano PDM-540, but the 520s are cheaper.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-pd-m520-pedals/

And as for a helmet, it really needs to fit, so ideally you would want to go to a good bike shop with a selection (though I should point out that I bought my Kask online because of the reduced price), but there are a few good brand names out there - eg. Giro, Bell, Met - and you should be able to get something perfectly decent for £40 or so. As they get more expensive they tend to get a little bit lighter, but often there isn't much in it.

smoggysteve

Simon Masterson wrote:

Value-wise, I think you'll struggle to beat the DHB MTB shoes:

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/dhb-m10-mountai ... ling-shoe/

I haven't used them, but they are very popular and get good reviews. It's not ideal that you can't try them on, though.

For pedals, I want to recommend the Shimano PDM-540, but the 520s are cheaper.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-pd-m520-pedals/

And as for a helmet, it really needs to fit, so ideally you would want to go to a good bike shop with a selection (though I should point out that I bought my Kask online because of the reduced price), but there are a few good brand names out there - eg. Giro, Bell, Met - and you should be able to get something perfectly decent for £40 or so. As they get more expensive they tend to get a little bit lighter, but often there isn't much in it.

Sorry, for a minute there I thought you were recommending someone uses MTB shoes for a road bike. I guess he is on a road bike cos this is a road bike forum. Why the hell would you want to wear MTB stuff on a road bike? There are hundreds of good road shoes out there and you decide to pick MTB shoes???

If you ever want to wear overshoes in the winter time you are gonna be screwed on that score. Most road shoes will take spd-sl and spd cleats. so you have a choice.

Also, if pedals are on a budget, I would go for SPD-SL as the cleats are cheaper and so are the pedals at the lower end of the market.

simon_masterson

He asked for SPDs, hence I recommended them.

But they are extremely practical and reliable (the cleats for example last a very long time). I like mine very much. You can tell that to the audax community too if you like...

team47b

if spds are required (to walk in?) spd road touring shoes best?/worst? of both worlds

for example

http://www.wiggle.co.uk:80/shimano-rt82-touring-shoes/

others shops are cheaper

simon_masterson

I would have recommended those, but he's stated his budget and those would take up most of it...

team47b

sorry I misread it, I thought it meant £100 for shoes and pedals, and another £100 for helmet, silly me :oops:

cyco2

I like the Shimano pedals and cleats which can be bought for £20 on Ebay. Sportsdirect are good for helmets, clothing and shoes at the moment because they bought a load of stuff from JJB sports.

smoggysteve

team47b wrote:

if spds are required (to walk in?) spd road touring shoes best?/worst? of both worlds

for example

http://www.wiggle.co.uk:80/shimano-rt82-touring-shoes/

others shops are cheaper

May I draw your attention to http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/ Particularly #34 & #69

simon_masterson

Very old joke. Please stop repeating it and it might go away.

smoggysteve

NEVER!! Such talk is blasphemy

rolf_f

SmoggySteve wrote:

If you ever want to wear overshoes in the winter time you are gonna be screwed on that score.

Why so? I have the MTB soled Northwave winter boots and I've always got overshoes on them. A bit tighter than I'd like but they do fit.

And Simon's right - 'The Rules' were never funny even when they came out and they still aren't now

smoggysteve

Getting back to the OPs original post. for £100 you are not going to get a decent helmet along with the cost of SPD pedals and cleats. SPD-SL would be a lot cheaper and more suitable for a road bike. Also the cost of replacement cleats is cheaper in the long run on a budget. Since spd-sl shoes will take both and MTB shoes are less likely if at all to do both it allows the OP the flexibility of deciding which is better without forking out for new shoes also.

simon_masterson

Out of interest, how long do your SPD-SL cleats last, then?

But I'm intrigued as to why it is you think that 'road' pedals are intrinsically more suitable for road cycling and road bikes. There are many types of road cycling. As said before, are you going to go and tell the Audaxers that they're wrong? Why does it matter that some road shoes take SPD cleats if they aren't recessed, anyway? The simple fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter very much - they're only pedals - and SPD pedals, particularly double sided, are very easy to use and work very well, as well as being very convenient.

smoggysteve

Ive been using the same cleats for over 6 months and still look fine, even with a few scratches from them being walked on while out on the bike. Always pick up bike to avoid glass etc.

road pedals are lighter, more aerodynamic, Wider cleats make for better power transfer. And the main point as was trying to make was - For this particular inquiry from the OP. SDP-SL are CHEAPER. Did you not get the £100 budget part of this??? For under the £100 budget he could get a good helmet for around 50-60 and a set of SPD-SL pedals with 1 set of free cleats ready to put on his bike. Probably even cheaper if you shop around. That was the question and thats why I recommended what I did.

smidsy

I have done around 4000 miles on my spd-sl cleats and still going.

I guess it depends more on how much walking you do in them rather than how much cycling.

I guess have done about 500 yards total walking in that 4000 miles cycling (just the milling around at the cake stop/loo break, as the back a forth to shed etc. needed I put Crocs on).

simon_masterson

SmoggySteve wrote:

Ive been using the same cleats for over 6 months and still look fine, even with a few scratches from them being walked on while out on the bike. Always pick up bike to avoid glass etc.

My SPD cleats are nearly 10 years old and showing no signs of imminent demise. I've even run a few miles in them!

SmoggySteve wrote:

road pedals are lighter,

Not really; the published weight of Shimano's A600 single-sided SPD touring pedals is lower than the SPD-SL (Ultegra) equivalent (286/310), and the double-sided PDM-540s are only 352g. It's not very important anyway, but that difference will be unappreciable.

SmoggySteve wrote:

more aerodynamic,

Negligible; unappreciable to most people.

SmoggySteve wrote:

Wider cleats make for better power transfer.

Also negligible; unappreciable to most people.

SmoggySteve wrote:

And the main point as was trying to make was - For this particular inquiry from the OP. SDP-SL are CHEAPER. Did you not get the £100 budget part of this??? For under the £100 budget he could get a good helmet for around 50-60 and a set of SPD-SL pedals with 1 set of free cleats ready to put on his bike. Probably even cheaper if you shop around. That was the question and thats why I recommended what I did.

They aren't cheaper; certainly not in the long run. In my first post I gave a set of choices that came to around £100: £18 for pedals, £45 for shoes and about £40 for a helmet. Even if the shoes don't come with a set of free cleats, they cost less than SPD-SL ones do in the first place.

rolf_f

SmoggySteve wrote:

Ive been using the same cleats for over 6 months and still look fine, even with a few scratches from them being walked on while out on the bike. Always pick up bike to avoid glass etc.

road pedals are lighter, more aerodynamic, Wider cleats make for better power transfer. And the main point as was trying to make was - For this particular inquiry from the OP. SDP-SL are CHEAPER. Did you not get the £100 budget part of this??? For under the £100 budget he could get a good helmet for around 50-60 and a set of SPD-SL pedals with 1 set of free cleats ready to put on his bike. Probably even cheaper if you shop around. That was the question and thats why I recommended what I did.

Hmmm, not sure I get you here.
1) The cleats. Metal cleats last longer (a lot longer) than plastic ones. Period. However long life you might get out of SPD SL cleats, recessed SPD metal cleats will last far longer.
2) Cost. Don't follow your logic. £18 gets you SPDs with cleats (Wiggle Price) - £22 for SPD SL 540s. You might find different prices (cheaper prices) but I can't see where you'll find a significant difference.
3) OP has just missed the price drop at CRC for the Kask K50 at £37 but offers like that do come along. And they list other K50 variants for £42. You don't even need to go to £50 though, as you say, cheaper if you shop around.
4) The better power transfer thing? Really? I can't really tell the difference. If your shoes are stiff enough, the difference has to be negligible.

Ultimately, they do the same thing. If you notice a pea under your 21 mattresses at night, you'll probably be sensitive to the smaller contact area of the SPDs but I think most people won't. And on that basis, the SPDs make a lot of sense as they are longer lasting, a bit easier to clip into and the shoes a bit more walking about friendly. Nothing worth switching over but if you are tossing a coin one way or the other you might as well make life a little simpler and go with the SPDs.

simon_masterson

Rolf F wrote:

Ultimately, they do the same thing. If you notice a pea under your 21 mattresses at night, you'll probably be sensitive to the smaller contact area of the SPDs but I think most people won't. And on that basis, the SPDs make a lot of sense as they are longer lasting, a bit easier to clip into and the shoes a bit more walking about friendly. Nothing worth switching over but if you are tossing a coin one way or the other you might as well make life a little simpler and go with the SPDs.

Bingo. To be perfectly honest I can't see much reason to bother with SLs; hence I haven't. I'd be more than happy to put road-specific pedals on my best bike, but until I can afford Speedplays I'll stick with SPDs.

Gren82

SmoggySteve wrote:

Getting back to the OPs original post. for £100 you are not going to get a decent helmet along with the cost of SPD pedals and cleats. SPD-SL would be a lot cheaper and more suitable for a road bike. Also the cost of replacement cleats is cheaper in the long run on a budget. Since spd-sl shoes will take both and MTB shoes are less likely if at all to do both it allows the OP the flexibility of deciding which is better without forking out for new shoes also.

Surely suitability is subjective to the type of riding he's doing, regardless of what type of bike he's using? If the OP is commuting in central london and stopping every 30 seconds for traffic lights then SPD start to make sense as they're a little easier to clip in and out of. Not everyone lives their lives by 'the rules' (although rule #5 is sound ) Personally I use SPDs on my commute as I do find them a lot easier to use for start-stop riding. Get a decent pair of MTB shoes with a stiff sole and I doubt many people would notice the difference. I only really bother with road shoes/pedals when i'm in the velodrome.

clickrumble

team47b wrote:

if spds are required (to walk in?) spd road touring shoes best?/worst? of both worlds

for example

http://www.wiggle.co.uk:80/shimano-rt82-touring-shoes/

others shops are cheaper

I've got these shoes - very good they are.

briantrumpet

Clickrumble wrote:

team47b wrote:

if spds are required (to walk in?) spd road touring shoes best?/worst? of both worlds

for example

http://www.wiggle.co.uk:80/shimano-rt82-touring-shoes/

others shops are cheaper

I've got these shoes - very good they are.

Yup. Mine have taken me about 10,000 miles since last Christmas. No complaints, other than I came only 3rd in the club New Year time trial. Obviously if I'd had better power transfer I'd have come 1st.

fast as fupp

why on earth would anyone need/want to walk when out on their bike?

rolf_f

fast as fupp wrote:

why on earth would anyone need/want to walk when out on their bike?

Surely it isn't hard to see reasons? If you are going to start a sentence with 'Why on earth' at least make the ending match the beginning - eg "Why on earth would anyone want to wrestle alligators" . As for walking, an example might be that they have several flights of uncarpeted stairs to ascend to their place of work? That's one reason I am glad for gripper SPD shoes. They might also like to visit places when on their rides. Not everybody leaves the house and doesn't get off the saddle til they get back to their house.

simon_masterson

Going to places, shopping, any commuting that involves more of a walk than a few metres from bike shed to desk, touring...

But the cleat life alone is worth the price of admission. You probably have other things on your commuting bike(s) that you might not want on your 'weekend'/'summer'/'best' bike...

alidaf

I started off with SPDs but switched to Keo a little while back. I had overshoes that fit well enough. The shoes (Shimano) served me well until I switched to roadie pedals. The only real complaint I had with them was the cleat holes let in an inordinate amount of water, which defeated the point of the overshoes. I tried blocking them off with plastic bags but it wasn't very effective.

simon_masterson

Since there are two of you here, how do the RT82s compare to similarly-priced road shoes for stiffness? Just curious...

team47b

just bought mine so no real time spent to test them, but I have just tried to flex an RT82 and compared it to an R064 really not any difference thought this was a fair test as they are both Shimano and relatively inexpensive.

The actual RT82 sole is as hard and unflexing as the road shoe but with a rubber surround to inset the cleats, so I think the underlying structure is the pretty much the same on both types of shoe.

Grinner1982

Right maybe I've been a bit vague, I already own some shimano mt23 shoes as I was going to buy some new spd pedals for my new bike (giant defy1) I've already got some spd pedals which I was given to put on my hybrid but never did.

But it seems as though I sparked a little debate,I'm a novice rider and I'm trying to suss best way to go.

I'm a little unsure about clipping in and out of pedals to be honest but from what I gather the the Sls aren't as forgiving for a novice I also didn't know spds were just for mountain biking.

Can you put sl cleats on the mt23 shoes or are they just spd only.

nehal

Gren82 wrote:

SmoggySteve wrote:

Getting back to the OPs original post. for £100 you are not going to get a decent helmet along with the cost of SPD pedals and cleats. SPD-SL would be a lot cheaper and more suitable for a road bike. Also the cost of replacement cleats is cheaper in the long run on a budget. Since spd-sl shoes will take both and MTB shoes are less likely if at all to do both it allows the OP the flexibility of deciding which is better without forking out for new shoes also.

Surely suitability is subjective to the type of riding he's doing, regardless of what type of bike he's using? If the OP is commuting in central london and stopping every 30 seconds for traffic lights then SPD start to make sense as they're a little easier to clip in and out of. Not everyone lives their lives by 'the rules' (although rule #5 is sound ) Personally I use SPDs on my commute as I do find them a lot easier to use for start-stop riding. Get a decent pair of MTB shoes with a stiff sole and I doubt many people would notice the difference. I only really bother with road shoes/pedals when i'm in the velodrome.

I use mavic mountain bike spd shoes for commuting too. I recently bought a pair of endura mountain overshoes from evans, they fit perfectly. I do admit though from the looks of it obtaining overshoes for such shoes could be difficult. In my opinion SPD shoes and pedals are the way to go for a first kind of "cycling" shoe just for practical reasons like you mentioned.

simon_masterson

Grinner1982 wrote:

Right maybe I've been a bit vague, I already own some shimano mt23 shoes as I was going to buy some new spd pedals for my new bike (giant defy1) I've already got some spd pedals which I was given to put on my hybrid but never did.

But it seems as though I sparked a little debate,I'm a novice rider and I'm trying to suss best way to go.

I'm a little unsure about clipping in and out of pedals to be honest but from what I gather the the Sls aren't as forgiving for a novice I also didn't know spds were just for mountain biking.

Can you put sl cleats on the mt23 shoes or are they just spd only.

Clipping in and out with SPDs is very easy; double-sided or not. Given that MTB/BMX/XC/CXers (of which I'm not one) apart from getting off and walking at times may take a foot out, whereas road cyclists typically will not, it's not surprising. I don't suppose that it was a priority for the Shimano engineers when they were developing the SPD-SL system.

You can't put SPD-SL cleats on MTB shoes. I don't think it would work, apart from anything else; the depth of cleat would require an awful lot of tread on the shoe. SPD cleats are made to be recessed and SPD-SL cleats are not. You can put SPD cleats on (some) road shoes if you want to, but I personally don't see much point as road shoes don't have recesses. What you need to know is that MTB cleats have two bolts whereas road cleats have 3. The old Shimano SPD-R system used two bolts as well, but you probably won't come across those unless you're looking for them.

But as has been thrashed out in this thread, for 99% of cyclists there really is no credible performance reason to opt for SPD-SLs rather than SPDs.