Nicole Cooke retire - is there any hope for womens cycling?

DonDaddyD

http://www1.skysports.com/cycling/news/ ... rug-cheats

I'm actually sad to see her retire, and she has a point:

"Whilst the UCI have been so engrossed trying to find receipts for the equipment they bought after Lance made donations to them, and suing Floyd Landis after he blew the whistle, and hold press conferences calling Landis a liar - whilst they have been busy with all these priorities, the women's road sport, that looked so promising in 2002 when I turned professional, has crumbled.

So what does womens road cycling need for it to become more popular and receive the investment it deserves?

msmancunia

BC and most other governing bodies have had clauses inserted into their most recent funding agreements (March 2013 - 2017) that state that in order to be awarded funding, they must have a plan on how to increase participation by women, and must hit targets in order to get this.

Now the Olympics are over funders are really pushing for this, so things may hopefully change.

gtvlusso

Hmmm - I am in a controversial mood today, so here goes:

Nicole Cooke - Respected Champion throws toys out of the pram and makes a *possibly* rash decision because she is not happy with the UCI.

Okay - Understand her point, but retiring - maybe it is the right time physically - not sure. However, I would now like to see her use her reputation to re-build womens cycling and bring it to the forefront rather than 'retiring to make a point'.

How about joining the UCI to rebuild the sport rather than moan about what other people have made from an atrocious situation - she is the perfect leader with her racing reputation and experience. Turning your back on it, assumed, helps no one.

I say; crack on Nicole, join the UCI, I have nothing to do with it whatsoever, but I will read and listen to what you have to say about womens cycling.

rubertoe

Women's racing is waning massively.

What needs to be done is that race organisers need to run the women's races alongside the men's.

The biggest women's races are those that are run and promoted alongside their men's equivalent, Tour of Flanders, Oomploop het... etc - basically Belgium races. If the other big organisers RCS, ASO etc backed them then they would be fine.

Cooke's retirement is bad for the sport, but again reading what she has said, she is another one that turned a blind eye to what was going on around her.

msmancunia

I agree - running the races together would make a huge difference.

But, if Nicole Cooke did try to rebuild the sport, she'd have a huge job on her hands. She'd have to get sponsors, team owners, broadcasters, the cycling media, governing bodies (and their male orientated board directors) and funders on her hands. For someone who has mainly just raced a bike for the last thirteen years (albeit brilliantly!) that's one hell of an ask.

pitchshifter

I often think the women races I see are far more exciting to watch than the men's. Why more women's races aren't televised is a mystery to me.

Pat Mcquaid and Verbruggen need to step down if anything is going to change in cycling ..

jonginge

The entire statement is required reading:

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/kn72pr

gtvlusso

msmancunia wrote:

I agree - running the races together would make a huge difference.

But, if Nicole Cooke did try to rebuild the sport, she'd have a huge job on her hands. She'd have to get sponsors, team owners, broadcasters, the cycling media, governing bodies (and their male orientated board directors) and funders on her hands. For someone who has mainly just raced a bike for the last thirteen years (albeit brilliantly!) that's one hell of an ask.

It is, you are right - Hard work, very hard work. But she has the contacts and the reputation and I think the girl is bright and can make a difference. I hope that she sees the light that she is the perfect person to move this forward from the root of the problem.

mudcow007

DonDaddyD wrote:

So what does womens road cycling need for it to become more popular and receive the investment it deserves?

Rochelle Gilmore to ride topless for a few stages...

msmancunia

I don't think it helps that most people's idea of a female on a bike is Kelly Brook on a Pashley with a basket on the front :-(

We can race, and we can wear clothes other than pink, and we can ride road bikes.

spen666

There is a risk that we are straying into political correctness here.

At professional level, women's cycling must be able to support itself, ie to generate its own funding etc.

This is very different from grass roots level.

At grass roots level, we must give women/ girls the opportunity to enter the sport and ensure there are sufficient events available for them. At our youth cycling club we organise female events at every level we organise male/open events. Part of the problem can be in getting sufficient females taking part.

At the professional level, sport only exists if it can pay its way. This means in effect it needs to attract spectator interest. Tennis has managed thisd, but women's football for example has not despite heavy pushing of the sport in the media. This proves that you cannot force the public to be interested in a sport.

To be honest, one may ask why (perverts aside) people would want to watch women's cycling as opposed to men's. The male cycling is faster, more aggressive etc.

I have no issue with women's cycling at any level, but it needs to be faced that it is not easy to get people interested in something. Hence why sports like baseball and American Football etc are not successes here

Blonde Cyclist

spen666 wrote:

To be honest, one may ask why (perverts aside) people would want to watch women's cycling as opposed to men's. The male cycling is faster, more aggressive etc.

What a shallow comment. How much women's racing have you actually watched?! When women's racing does come on I find that it is actually more intersting as it can be a lot more tactical - I don't think the Olympic RR was a one-off. Faster doesn't really matter on TV as they're still pretty quick and I think it can be just as agressive... I enjoy watching both men's and women's racing more or less equally. It's that kind of comment that puts people off watching in the first place. You wonder why more women don't turn up to RR? Telling them they're inferior is probably a start...

Finally, yes, ultimately women's pro cycling must be self supporting but you have to generate the interest first, so it does need investment. Even men's cycling didn't get the same level of coverage until a few years ago and sponsors will come if there is a market.

jonginge

Tennis benefits from running the men's and women's competitions in parallel. Cycling and football don't do this.

The Women's Olympic road race was way more exciting than the men's.

Green Brompton

msmancunia wrote:

I don't think it helps that most people's idea of a female on a bike is Kelly Brook on a Pashley with a basket on the front :-(

We can race, and we can wear clothes other than pink, and we can ride road bikes.

I was going to say something similar to this, so many articles about getting girls on a bike usually have a Stock photo of them on a Pashley, or just out on a country ride, trying to give the impression it's not serious, it's fun. I have to say, I didn't even know I could get into races as an amateur etc etc, or that cycling clubs really existed until joined Bike Radar since moving to SW London, which seems to be where a large London cycling community exists, and I only found out about clubs / racing because someone said I was quick on a Brompton one day... so that was last year, and I've been commuting since 2007 or something...

gtvlusso

many years ago my wife worked as a lawyer on a project called; Formula Woman.

It would be a parallel racing series for women in F1 cars.

However, the idiot that came up with the plan had the logo as 'Formula' in brazen letters and the 'Woman' bit like it was written on a mirror with lipstick...On seeing that, my wife decided that she did not want to be involved. She felt that it cheapened the idea of this being a legitimate sport with legitimate 'athletes'. I think the project died.

But this is it, Sex sells. And hot girls in cycle gear is what might happen if people like Nicole Cooke does not get involved. The sport needs to be taken seriously and lead by someone with a reputation like hers, and not tainted by stupid chauvinistic marketing and headline action.

DonDaddyD

Yeah Spen, I'm not sure you can say that Womens races are less aggressive then mens. I like watching all road races irrespective of gender and find the women's races quite aggressive and combatitive (not like the toothless glide that was last years TdF).

I do feel for Nicole though, she did try her hand at running her own team (Vision1 Racing) and that fell apart. You also have to ask why Sky doesn't offer some support.

I think another issue is sexism. I could see sponsors wanting to sexualise the (female) riders beyond a level that they would feel comfortable with and due to the resistance sponsors have lost interest.

Green Brompton

There is something about women's sport that doesn't attract the same investment as mens sport. Even in tennis they don't get the same payout... I saw yesterday that CTC are launching a new pro women's team this year.

tailwindhome

DonDaddyD wrote:

So what does womens road cycling need for it to become more popular and receive the investment it deserves?

What investment does it deserve?

Green Brompton

If I recall the Olympic Women's road race, I was with two guys, and all three of us were sprinting too and from Richmond Park, (it was raining) back home again to catch the start and finish and watch the main part on TV. We were all on the edges of our seat.

spen666

Blonde Cyclist wrote:

spen666 wrote:

To be honest, one may ask why (perverts aside) people would want to watch women's cycling as opposed to men's. The male cycling is faster, more aggressive etc.

What a shallow comment. How much women's racing have you actually watched?! When women's racing does come on I find that it is actually more intersting as it can be a lot more tactical - I don't think the Olympic RR was a one-off. Faster doesn't really matter on TV as they're still pretty quick and I think it can be just as agressive... I enjoy watching both men's and women's racing more or less equally. It's that kind of comment that puts people off watching in the first place. You wonder why more women don't turn up to RR? Telling them they're inferior is probably a start...

you are inventing things. I have not said female cycling is inferior nor have I said male cycling is superior.


Try reading what is posted. You may not like the truth, but male cycle racing is faster more aggressive etc. That is what the majority of people want to watch. You cannot force people to watch something they do not want to.


There is nothing shallow abourt stating the facts. Sadly some people are not able to accept the facts.

Finally, yes, ultimately women's pro cycling must be self supporting but you have to generate the interest first, so it does need investment. Even men's cycling didn't get the same level of coverage until a few years ago and sponsors will come if there is a market.

Who is going to pay for this investment? You are no doubt wanting the male cycling sport to invest in the female sport - why should they? what return is there for Bradley wiggins for example to take a reduction in his income to pay for a women's race and why should he be expected to pay for it?

The women's road race at the Olympics may have been more exciting to some people, but the public voted with their feet as to what they wanted to watch, both on TV and in person

tailwindhome

msmancunia wrote:

I don't think it helps that most people's idea of a female on a bike is Kelly Brook on a Pashley with a basket on the front :-(

We can race, and we can wear clothes other than pink, and we can ride road bikes.

Pro Race: Marianne Vos Thread

Green Brompton

@msmancunia, do you race? If so who is your team?

veronese68

Green Brompton wrote:

If I recall the Olympic Women's road race, I was with two guys, and all three of us were sprinting too and from Richmond Park, (it was raining) back home again to catch the start and finish and watch the main part on TV. We were all on the edges of our seat.

I agree with this. I did the same thing dashing to and from Richmond Park and the women's race was the more exciting. I just looked at the pictures a friend of mine took, here, and it still looks better. The rain may have helped the spectacle I grant you.

mudcow007

to be honest during the olympics i found the gals racing more exciting than the blokes, i dunno why maybe because its not something you see on telly that often....

why isnt there more women races on t'box?

kelly brook did look a bit ridiculous on the pashley, i mean wedges with a red dress what was she thinking?!

Blonde Cyclist

spen666 wrote:

Blonde Cyclist wrote:

spen666 wrote:

To be honest, one may ask why (perverts aside) people would want to watch women's cycling as opposed to men's. The male cycling is faster, more aggressive etc.

What a shallow comment. How much women's racing have you actually watched?! When women's racing does come on I find that it is actually more intersting as it can be a lot more tactical - I don't think the Olympic RR was a one-off. Faster doesn't really matter on TV as they're still pretty quick and I think it can be just as agressive... I enjoy watching both men's and women's racing more or less equally. It's that kind of comment that puts people off watching in the first place. You wonder why more women don't turn up to RR? Telling them they're inferior is probably a start...

you are inventing things. I have not said female cycling is inferior nor have I said male cycling is superior.


Try reading what is posted. You may not like the truth, but male cycle racing is faster more aggressive etc. That is what the majority of people want to watch. You cannot force people to watch something they do not want to.


There is nothing shallow abourt stating the facts. Sadly some people are not able to accept the facts.

Finally, yes, ultimately women's pro cycling must be self supporting but you have to generate the interest first, so it does need investment. Even men's cycling didn't get the same level of coverage until a few years ago and sponsors will come if there is a market.

Who is going to pay for this investment? You are no doubt wanting the male cycling sport to invest in the female sport - why should they? what return is there for Bradley wiggins for example to take a reduction in his income to pay for a women's race and why should he be expected to pay for it?

The women's road race at the Olympics may have been more exciting to some people, but the public voted with their feet as to what they wanted to watch, both on TV and in person

In my world saying why would you want to watch that when you could watch this is saying that one is inferior to another as a viewing spectacle. And I completely disagree with your "fact"/ "truth" that women's racing is less aggressive, as apparently do many others... You might not find it as exciting, others may not, but this is about whether there are enough of us who do enjoy it for it to be a worthwhile cause and I think there may be.

As far as funding goes, I'm pretty sure most of Bradley's earning comes from sponsorship anyway but apart from that, no it is not about male cycling cross-subsidising but the UCI and other governing and supporting bodies lending the same support as they have done for the men's (previously and current). Men have so many more opprtunities, don't you think it's a shame that pro-women aren't given the same? Hey, put it on a limited timeframe and if it doesn't start generating returns after a few years, fine, but give them the same opportunities...

As for the Olympic Women's RR - I'm curious by what you mean? Despite the weather huge crowds turned out to watch - I know, I was part of them, there were large viewing figures (maybe not as high but still big enough to prove interest) and IIRC it was voted above the men's in Cycling Weekly's reader voted Race of the Year...

@msmancunia - I agree, there is definitely a perception issue - hopefully Laura T, Lizzie A and the new crowd coming through can start to change that!

msmancunia

@ blondecylist

Hope so. If a few of the good track girls make it on to the road then that's a start, and I think I read the CTC is starting up a girls road team. Unpaid, but at least it's something.

il_principe

spen666 wrote:

Who is going to pay for this investment? You are no doubt wanting the male cycling sport to invest in the female sport - why should they? what return is there for Bradley wiggins for example to take a reduction in his income to pay for a women's race and why should he be expected to pay for it?

I think you'll find that Wiggo is supporting a Women's team:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/gilmore-creates-the-dtpc-honda-pro-cycling-womens-team

navt

One big reason for supporting HTC Highroad in their day was the fact that the had a pro women's team. Wish Dave and Sky would do the same.

Team4Luke

Locally around my club area cycling including ladies is taking off, however what is actually happening is perhaps a 50/50 split, some new clubs too (if you call a club a club if run only by an FB page) but also "groups" of rides forming, these are not clubs just informal meets ups arranged by FB often, not always though, some decent size groups going out. There are only interested in simple cycling fun, meet up and ride back to a cafe for a brew etc, they are not interested in clubs or racing.

Agent57

msmancunia wrote:

I don't think it helps that most people's idea of a female on a bike is Kelly Brook on a Pashley with a basket on the front :-(

It doesn't help in terms of racing, but I think it's good image as far as getting across the point that cycling isn't just for sporty people in lycra. People riding bikes in everyday clothes (or pretty dresses) is good, because for too many people look at cyclists and think they need to dress up in a load of special gear and safety equipment in order to ride a bike, and the more normal and accessible it appears, the more likely the average person will be willing to give it a go. Three cheers for everyday clothes for recreational, transportation and utility cycling.

My wife has a basket on the front of her Dutch bike.

gtvlusso

I used to see allot of girls at the Newport velodrome. It was great riding in mixed trains; there was an obvious power difference, between male a female, but I quite like the mis-match and having to compensate both ways....

As for Kelly Brook on a bike, if it encourages more people to get on bikes then chapeau - She is still hot and no one should take any of it seriously.

We are talking about 2 different things: professional cycle racing and girls on bikes.