Going back to flats after clipless?

the_cyclist_of_catan

So, the weather's turning cold, with ice and snow. I'd read something somewhere about flat platform pedals being easier in this sort of weather as you can "bail out" - or at least put a foot down - in a hurry. So one cheap pair of large platform pedals was duly fitted to the hybrid, after almost a year of using clipless pedals (SPDs on the hybrid, Speedplays on the road bike; and yes, Speedplays really are as good as people say).

One journey and I've found something to donate to the club jumble sale. Those flat pedals are *hopeless*. Quite aside from subconciously trying to unclip at every junction (that felt weird, I can say), the flat pedals were worse in several key respects. The lack of power uphill, the lack of variety in pedalling action, and mostly that every stop saw me fiddling to get at least one pedal into the right position to start off again (never a problem with Speedplays). I have no idea why people still use these things. I'm going straight back to clipless; once you've got over the six or seven "comedy falls" you have while still getting used to them, clipless pedals are just so much better than flat platforms.

And I'll deal with the ice and snow by not cycling in it

rolf_f

Lol! I'm almost surprised you didn't expect this to happen but it's always good to have someone else provide a useful service and expensively confirm your suspicions!!

I tend to um and err a bit on this with regard to mountain biking - but then I suspect falling off onto mud is less painful than the shin gouging I got when I used platform pedals.......

farrina

Personally having ridden clipless pedals since the orginal Look version of circa 1986 I would not dream of going anywhere near a bike without using clipless pedals.

It would be an absolute nightmare and I guarantee I would fall off within a matter of a few yards ... <shudder>

As commented above once you have ridden them for a while your body subconsciouly readjusts - sort of the reverse of what is often written about on here with people describing their exploits in falling off as they forgot they were clipped in.

If the situation arises you will be surprised as to how quickly you can remove your shoe from a clippless pedal (or indeed a toe strap - the only exception here is normally track riders)

Regards

Alan

simon_masterson

The Cyclist of Catan wrote:

And I'll deal with the ice and snow by not cycling in it

This is exactly it. If you want to cycle on ice and in thick snow, you want spiked tyres, and even then you might still fall over. Good technique can help you to keep control of the bike, but if you are going to fall, you are going to fall; whether or not you are able to 'bail out'. I therefore can't think of any reason to change pedals.

Flat platforms are very nice with clips and straps, but I too wouldn't go back to using them singly. I don't think I'll ever get my mum to agree, though.

MattyyP

I'm finding my pro 3s aren't doing too badly getting off my street which is covered in snow and I live on an incline! It's all about not caring if you fall off Chances are if you are coming off because you're riding in snow, you'll be riding that slow that you won't hurt yourself too much anyway, your ego may take a hit though...

simon_e

I don't understand the problem. I ride on clipless pedals but have flats on the reverse of my hack/winter bike's SPDs. If I pop into town or ride to work in walking boots (as I may do tomorrow) it feels a bit odd at first but is never an issue.

Many MTBers, downhill and 4X racers prefer it an 99% of the people who ride bicycles manage OK while these people can even cycle in a blizzard depsite not having been inspired to do so by a Rapha video.

Hoopdriver

It just seems as though clipless pedals are an article of faith among a lot of people on here. There is a kind of evangelical religiosity to all these urgings to go clipless, stay clipless, never yield or question the faith. I just don't get it.

lotus49

Hoopdriver wrote:

It just seems as though clipless pedals are an article of faith among a lot of people on here. There is a kind of evangelical religiosity to all these urgings to go clipless, stay clipless, never yield or question the faith. I just don't get it.

I do think you are right about this in that using clipless pedals is seen as "the done thing". Having said that, it does seem to be rare for riders to move back to flatties. I am relatively new to clipless pedals but I do really like them. I like not having to think about my foot positioning and just being able to concentrate on a smooth pedal stroke. I cannot deny though, that part of the appeal is simply knowing that I am doing what the pros do and not looking (too much) like a newbie.

Bustacapp

The Cyclist of Catan wrote:

So, the weather's turning cold, with ice and snow. I'd read something somewhere about flat platform pedals being easier in this sort of weather as you can "bail out" - or at least put a foot down - in a hurry. So one cheap pair of large platform pedals was duly fitted to the hybrid, after almost a year of using clipless pedals (SPDs on the hybrid, Speedplays on the road bike; and yes, Speedplays really are as good as people say).

One journey and I've found something to donate to the club jumble sale. Those flat pedals are *hopeless*. Quite aside from subconciously trying to unclip at every junction (that felt weird, I can say), the flat pedals were worse in several key respects. The lack of power uphill, the lack of variety in pedalling action, and mostly that every stop saw me fiddling to get at least one pedal into the right position to start off again (never a problem with Speedplays). I have no idea why people still use these things. I'm going straight back to clipless; once you've got over the six or seven "comedy falls" you have while still getting used to them, clipless pedals are just so much better than flat platforms.

And I'll deal with the ice and snow by not cycling in it

ForumNewbie

I recently put flat pedals back on my Audax bike, but they are flat touring pedals and I have screwed on Zefal hard plastic toe clips:
http://www.tweekscycles.com/Product.do?method=view&n=3469&g=241831&p=32844&c=215&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Base&utm_campaign=Pedal%20Spares&gclid=CMfbydaW8LQCFfHJtAodeikA4Q
to the pedals which stops my feet slipping off. No straps so no problem getting feet out quickly. Not quite as good as clipless for hills, but still better than flats on their own, and safer if you want to put feet down in a hurry.

typekitty

Picked up my new bike today and rode home on normal pedals. Yikes, so frustrating! At the lights, I kept lifting my foot up to reposition the pedal with zero result. Suffice to say, the spds are on!

FlacVest

Hoopdriver wrote:

It just seems as though clipless pedals are an article of faith among a lot of people on here. There is a kind of evangelical religiosity to all these urgings to go clipless, stay clipless, never yield or question the faith. I just don't get it.

Probably due to the fact that they're infinitely better if you aren't constantly taking a foot out and stopping.

More power on climbs
More power on the flat
Can use more muscles to divy up the work
Can jump over things that might mess you up otherwise
Can easily backpedal if you're taking a quick chicane or need to turn quickly

nolight

lotus49 wrote:

I cannot deny though, that part of the appeal is simply knowing that I am doing what the pros do and not looking (too much) like a newbie.

This. This is the reason to go clipless.

Hoopdriver

nolight wrote:

lotus49 wrote:

I cannot deny though, that part of the appeal is simply knowing that I am doing what the pros do and not looking (too much) like a newbie.

This. This is the reason to go clipless.

Monkey see, monkey do

simon_e

lotus49 wrote:

I cannot deny though, that part of the appeal is simply knowing that I am doing what the pros do and not looking (too much) like a newbie.

Don't forget to shave your legs. You'll be ordering some EPO, HGH and banned diuretics as well, I guess. Oh, and those team issue Oakleys.

Can you take a pee while riding - in team issue bibshorts, of course. Waist shorts are so amateurish!

And I bet you get someone to hand up a musette with your lunchbox in it half way to work, then drive behind you with spare wheels,

chrisaonabike

Hoopdriver wrote:

It just seems as though clipless pedals are an article of faith among a lot of people on here. There is a kind of evangelical religiosity to all these urgings to go clipless, stay clipless, never yield or question the faith. I just don't get it.

Off topic, I know, but sorry, I just have to do it (seeing as it's you ) ...

It just seems as though Macintosh computers are an article of faith among a lot of people on here. There is a kind of evangelical religiosity to all these urgings to go Mac, stay Mac, never yield or question the faith. I just don't get it.

Back on topic, as it happens, with pedals, I totally agree with you. I have M324s. In lycra I use the clips, in jeans I use the flats. I have to be a bit careful not to have my feet slip off the flats when I'm in jeans, but generally it's fine.

Perhaps it's a good analogy, after all. Macs are great, but if you want to use them wearing jeans, watch out

Hoopdriver

ChrisAOnABike wrote:

Hoopdriver wrote:

It just seems as though clipless pedals are an article of faith among a lot of people on here. There is a kind of evangelical religiosity to all these urgings to go clipless, stay clipless, never yield or question the faith. I just don't get it.

Off topic, I know, but sorry, I just have to do it (seeing as it's you ) ...

It just seems as though Macintosh computers are an article of faith among a lot of people on here. There is a kind of evangelical religiosity to all these urgings to go Mac, stay Mac, never yield or question the faith. I just don't get it.

Back on topic, as it happens, with pedals, I totally agree with you. I have M324s. In lycra I use the clips, in jeans I use the flats. I have to be a bit careful not to have my feet slip off the flats when I'm in jeans, but generally it's fine.

Perhaps it's a good analogy, after all. Macs are great, but if you want to use them wearing jeans, watch out

Perhaps its a good analogy - but only up to a point.

I use Macs professionally - for photo editing and the like. And if some asks for advice on what sort of computer to use to edit photos or video, I would advise them to use a Mac. Not as an article of faith but because they are the best tools for the job.

Likewise, if I were a professional cyclist - a racer - I would unquestionably use clip less, for all the usual reasons of efficiency and power.

ddraver

You need the right pedals and shoes - cheapy plastic ones are no good. If you were to get a proper set of MTB flat pedals and some sticky soled shoes (5.10's for example) and give it enough time to readjust you'd be fine.

Thats said, the benefits of flats over clipless only really make sense off road, and even then that's as much a style thing as a performance thing. It does help you with your technique, but road riding requires zero technique really so....meh

Trev The Rev

Hoopdriver wrote:

It just seems as though clipless pedals are an article of faith among a lot of people on here. There is a kind of evangelical religiosity to all these urgings to go clipless, stay clipless, never yield or question the faith. I just don't get it.

This might have something to do with manufacturers and retailers and the press wanting to maintain sales of ludicrously expensive pedals.

Then you have the 'look at me I look like a pro brigade.

But probably the most evangelical are the coaches who preach scraping back and pulling up and pushing over the top, pedal in circles, smooth pedaling, free power for same effort, fluid pedaling style, no evidence whatever dogma.

Facts are, unless you have coordination problems your feet stay on flat pedals. Very small children manage fine, in fact everyone manages fine, then they want to look like a pro and they believe clipless pedals will make them faster, which they do not, so they spend hundreds of pounds on cycling shoes cleats and pedals and start riding about scraping and pulling up and pushing over the top of the stroke, pedaling smoothly in fluid circles, don't go any faster but lose the ability to ride a bike without wearing shoes they can't walk in. Amen.

Trev The Rev

Hoopdriver wrote:

ChrisAOnABike wrote:

Hoopdriver wrote:

It just seems as though clipless pedals are an article of faith among a lot of people on here. There is a kind of evangelical religiosity to all these urgings to go clipless, stay clipless, never yield or question the faith. I just don't get it.

Off topic, I know, but sorry, I just have to do it (seeing as it's you ) ...

It just seems as though Macintosh computers are an article of faith among a lot of people on here. There is a kind of evangelical religiosity to all these urgings to go Mac, stay Mac, never yield or question the faith. I just don't get it.

Back on topic, as it happens, with pedals, I totally agree with you. I have M324s. In lycra I use the clips, in jeans I use the flats. I have to be a bit careful not to have my feet slip off the flats when I'm in jeans, but generally it's fine.

Perhaps it's a good analogy, after all. Macs are great, but if you want to use them wearing jeans, watch out

Perhaps its a good analogy - but only up to a point.

I use Macs professionally - for photo editing and the like. And if some asks for advice on what sort of computer to use to edit photos or video, I would advise them to use a Mac. Not as an article of faith but because they are the best tools for the job.

Likewise, if I were a professional cyclist - a racer - I would unquestionably use clip less, for all the usual reasons of efficiency and power.

This is a myth. They might allow you to increase power for a very short time, but there is no evidence they improve efficiency.

lotus49

Trev The Rev wrote:

Facts are, unless you have coordination problems your feet stay on flat pedals.

I agree that most of the time your feet do stay on the pedals but I have two cycling children one of whom is very sporty and well-coordinated but both of their feet slip off the pedals occasionally and they have both barked their shins on their pedals. The reason I like clipless pedals is that my feet stay in the same position on the pedal without any effort on my part.

There is a lot of guff talked about getting the power down but that does not mean clipless pedals are not worthwhile for other reasons.

Out of interest, do you always use flatties on a road bike?

philwint

I switched to SPDs on the MTB years ago when on a bumpy trail my right foot slipped off the pedal and my big chain ring left a nasty gash in the back of my leg :?

After that I'd be a bit nervous riding flats. As a side effect I 'feel' more connected clipped in too. I'm not completely convinced they give more power though.

Bustacapp

I have flat pedals and never suffer from this 'placing of foot on pedal' issue some of you seem to talk about. I have absolutely no issue with flats at all and the only time I ever consider clipless is because of the possible power increase for sprinting/climbing.

But then I notice posts about it not really helping power and think 'b0llocks to it' .

nolight

It does help when you are spinning fast. On flat pedal, when going downhill at high cadence I have to stop pedaling at some point for fractions of a second, readjust foot, then continue pedalling. It is disruptive to fast spinning. On clipless, I can pedal continuously without fear, knowing the foot is at the same place.

roger_merriman

nolight wrote:

It does help when you are spinning fast. On flat pedal, when going downhill at high cadence I have to stop pedaling at some point for fractions of a second, readjust foot, then continue pedalling. It is disruptive to fast spinning. On clipless, I can pedal continuously without fear, knowing the foot is at the same place.

if your using cheap OEM flats or spinning to 200rpm, then yes I could see that you might have problems with spinning, But use some decent flats with some decent shoes and more normal rpm, it's not a problem I don't get much past 130rpm but most don't get much past 100rpm, if you look at the cadence on strava etc.

A decent flat plus decent cycling shoes give a secure platform as you where, but they do tend to be big chunky affairs, which do look a little odd, plus compared to clipless fairly heavy.

used to have SPD's on my roadie, on the SS went back to flats which I prefer any way.

nolight

roger merriman wrote:

nolight wrote:

It does help when you are spinning fast. On flat pedal, when going downhill at high cadence I have to stop pedaling at some point for fractions of a second, readjust foot, then continue pedalling. It is disruptive to fast spinning. On clipless, I can pedal continuously without fear, knowing the foot is at the same place.

if your using cheap OEM flats or spinning to 200rpm, then yes I could see that you might have problems with spinning, But use some decent flats with some decent shoes and more normal rpm, it's not a problem I don't get much past 130rpm but most don't get much past 100rpm, if you look at the cadence on strava etc.

A decent flat plus decent cycling shoes give a secure platform as you where, but they do tend to be big chunky affairs, which do look a little odd, plus compared to clipless fairly heavy.

used to have SPD's on my roadie, on the SS went back to flats which I prefer any way.

I always thought cycling shoes have to go with clipless or clip pedals. Cycling shoes on flat pedals, won't it slip around? I use jogging shoes with flat pedals.

ddraver

I assume he meatn flat specific shoes...ie 5.10's or similar..

Mr Will

Hoopdriver wrote:

It just seems as though clipless pedals are an article of faith among a lot of people on here. There is a kind of evangelical religiosity to all these urgings to go clipless, stay clipless, never yield or question the faith. I just don't get it.

I can honestly say that going clipless was one of the best moves I ever made. I can't swear that it's any faster or more efficient but that's not really the point. The feeling of being securely attached to the pedals is worth the cost alone. I know you can achieve close to a similar level of attachment with top-clips, but I have always found these less comfortable and more hassle (albeit prettier...).

When a close friend first go in to road cycling, I was guilty of giving pretty strong urgings for him to follow in my footsteps. He had the normal newbie reservations, so it took quite a bit of convincing to overcome them but he loved them by the second ride. He's since gone on to convince another two people...

I'd never say they suit all people or all bikes. If you try them and want to go back then that's fine but at least try them properly first. They are popular for a reason, and it isn't just marketing.

roger_merriman

ddraver wrote:

I assume he meatn flat specific shoes...ie 5.10's or similar..

yes plus MTB/touring types, which have a flap to take SPD or what ever but equally can be used well on Flats, having the stiff sole.

trainers and cheap flats, which you do see, gives a horrible spongy feeling.

HeatherMillsLeg

Hoopdriver wrote:

It just seems as though clipless pedals are an article of faith among a lot of people on here. There is a kind of evangelical religiosity to all these urgings to go clipless, stay clipless, never yield or question the faith. I just don't get it.

I wonder how many pros use flats and toeclips?

I'd be willing to wager a large amount of money that it is less than 1.

There is a reason for using clipless but you obviously don't seem to understand that.

Bustacapp

HeatherMillsLeg wrote:

I wonder how many pros use flats and toeclips?

I'd be willing to wager a large amount of money that it is less than 1.

There is a reason for using clipless but you obviously don't seem to understand that.

I wonder how many pros are posting in this thread.

I reckon it is less than 1.

There is a reason 'pro's' use clipless but they also shave their b0llock hair to save weight.