Chain Device Help

mcnultycop
mcnultycop Posts: 2,143
edited January 2013 in MTB buying advice
I'm going to go 1x10 on the Scandal I'm building. I'm going to run a 32t e-13 Guide-ring, with a bashguard on Deore M590 Cranks on a Hollowtech II Bottom Bracket. The frame doesn't have ISCG tabs.

Will a Superstar Plasma chain device work OK with this, I guess just replacing one of the BB spacers?

Alternatively if I run a Shadow+ rear mech (I'm planning to, whichever type of device I go for) do you think I could get away with just a seat tube mount chainguide?

Thanks in advance.
«1

Comments

  • bennett_346
    bennett_346 Posts: 5,029
    That superstar thing should in theory work. It just replaces a driveside spacer. A shadow plus would almost certainly remove the need for a bottom guide.
  • mcnultycop
    mcnultycop Posts: 2,143
    I might just try the top guide then with a Shadow+; if it doesn't work I can always get one with a bottom guide later as the top one is relatively cheap.
  • ilovedirt
    ilovedirt Posts: 5,798
    You're better off getting something with an actual BB mount backplate (as opposed to ISCG with a BB adaptor) as the ones with adaptors can be a pain to set up right as it really messes up your chain line. I've been down this route a few times, and I found a gamut guide with a BB mount backplate to work the best, however it's a little more expensive. If you're willing to go without the bash and lower roller, the superstar XCR guide worked fine for me for XC duties, so long as you have a SS ring on there like the guide ring. No dropped chains at all once it was set up right, fine for even fairly bumpy stuff I found. One thing you might find though is that you may have to grind off the granny ring tabs of the cranks to get it to work properly, particularly on an ISCG guide, you may not need to on a BB mount guide.
    Production Privee Shan

    B'Twin Triban 5
  • ilovedirt
    ilovedirt Posts: 5,798
    Lol, you replied before I got a chance - yeah with a shadow plus mech and either the seat tube mount or BB mount top-only guide should work fine :)
    Production Privee Shan

    B'Twin Triban 5
  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,812
    Or you could go stealth and use an inner guide ring like the Raidium or BBG ones (or my homemade one, see link in my sig to my Kraken) or using something like an N-gear jump stop.

    A Bottom guide is also needed when back pedaling, so a shadow+ wouldn't help with that.....
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • lawman
    lawman Posts: 6,868
    A Bottom guide is also needed when back pedaling, so a shadow+ wouldn't help with that.....

    Not in my experience, my zee mech combined with an e13 xcx guide has been perfect so far, with zero dropped chains and no issues. It's a great setup and had it not been for the lower effective bb on the HD I'd run the same guide with my xtr plus mech too, but I like the taco to give me some bash protection. If you can do without a bash guard, a simple top guide an shadow plus mech is all you need IMO.
  • mcnultycop
    mcnultycop Posts: 2,143
    I have been looking at the Zee mechs. Cheaper than SLX (or XT) and with a shorter cage; they look a good buy.
  • lawman
    lawman Posts: 6,868
    mcnultycop wrote:
    I have been looking at the Zee mechs. Cheaper than SLX (or XT) and with a shorter cage; they look a good buy.

    Mine has been spot on so far, and given it costs less than a third of xtr, it's nearly as good, not as smooth and a fair chunk heavier, but functionally it's damn near as good. A proper bargain!
  • mcnultycop
    mcnultycop Posts: 2,143
    I've just ordered the Zee Mech from JE James. I'm looking forward to getting all this together now.
  • ilovedirt
    ilovedirt Posts: 5,798
    lawman wrote:
    A Bottom guide is also needed when back pedaling, so a shadow+ wouldn't help with that.....

    Not in my experience, my zee mech combined with an e13 xcx guide has been perfect so far, with zero dropped chains and no issues. It's a great setup and had it not been for the lower effective bb on the HD I'd run the same guide with my xtr plus mech too, but I like the taco to give me some bash protection. If you can do without a bash guard, a simple top guide an shadow plus mech is all you need IMO.
    Even without a clutch mech mine was fine for months. With all due respect, the beginner doesn't really know what he's talking about most of the time, a trait to which his title seems to allude ;)
    Production Privee Shan

    B'Twin Triban 5
  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,812
    Funnily the last person thatsaid that, a week later told me he'd dropped his chain 3 times when back pedaling for various reasons, but if it works for you, that's fine!

    As for ILD - don't think so.....
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • ilovedirt
    ilovedirt Posts: 5,798
    Then your mate didn't have it set up right.
    Production Privee Shan

    B'Twin Triban 5
  • mcnultycop
    mcnultycop Posts: 2,143
    I've decided to give the Raidum a go, just as it looks like the neatest solution (although I imagine cleaning the remaining chainring inbetween a bash and the raidium may be a bit of a pain in the backside). I'll see how I get on and report back.
  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,812
    I have a homemade version of the Raidium fitted, not tried it in anger yet, but the first quick test ride was all good!
    20121230_105926.jpg
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • mcnultycop
    mcnultycop Posts: 2,143
    I have a homemade version of the Raidium fitted, not tried it in anger yet, but the first quick test ride was all good!
    20121230_105926.jpg

    I saw that on your thread in the Your Mountain Bikes section. You should start making those.
  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,812
    LOL, cost me £11.40 and about 30 minutes of time, really really not hard, solid bench to work on, jigsaw with a fine tooth blade and a drill with pilot and 8mm bits.
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • milko9000
    milko9000 Posts: 533
    Anyone tried the Raidium (or BBG) on a 34t chainring? It's only specced to cope with 32t but I fancy giving it a go. Or maybe I should make my own bodge solution instead... that looks reasonably possible for me to achieve if I can get hold of the material.
  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,812
    Got that off ebay.....you need to measure the diameter of the OUTSIDE of the chain around a 32T and then add about 5mm and that should work.

    Mine is 146mm and is sized for a 32T.
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • milko9000
    milko9000 Posts: 533
    Yeah I followed your link, although the bloke isn't selling any just now and the other brand you mentioned don't seem to have anything suitable online. But I'm sure I'll find some somewhere.

    Could I not just measure the diameter of the outside of the chain around a 34T though?
  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,812
    Have youtried messaging him to ask if he'll be listing soon?

    http://www.fibre-lyte.co.uk/ products, 2.00mm is 40p/square inch
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • ilovedirt
    ilovedirt Posts: 5,798
    I can't see that working, there's nothing to stop the chain derailing.
    Production Privee Shan

    B'Twin Triban 5
  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,812
    Eh?????? maybe you should have gone to specsavers......

    it starts to come off, hits the ring and rolls back on - chains don't just leap right off, they derail and then roll off as the chainring turns, check out Bromptons the 1xX geared use the self same system, also options already on the market by Raidium, BBG and widgit....
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • ilovedirt
    ilovedirt Posts: 5,798
    I still can't see it working, there's a reason the old MRP guides had rollers on them as well as those dinner plates either side of the chainring.
    Production Privee Shan

    B'Twin Triban 5
  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,812
    Fine, but as there are 3 like it on the market already, it implies others can see what you can't (or it just does work and you can't se it!)...wouldn't use for DH, but for XC and trail.....

    Besides lots of people use a bash and N-gear jump stop which is only the same principle!
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • bennett_346
    bennett_346 Posts: 5,029
    wouldn't use for DH, but for XC and trail.....
    It either works for both or neither. How would DH derail the chain but not XC?
  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,812
    Because the inputs are more severe, you don't see XC WC racers with Sram XI using the same chain retention as WC DHers do you, most XC/trail multi-chainring just use a front mech, as you get to AM/Enduro you see stingers etc.... you adjust the kit for your ride - like not using a Giant Glory round Cannock or a Trek Superfly down Fort Bills DH track!
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • ilovedirt
    ilovedirt Posts: 5,798
    Fine, but as there are 3 like it on the market already, it implies others can see what you can't (or it just does work and you can't se it!)...wouldn't use for DH, but for XC and trail.....

    Besides lots of people use a bash and N-gear jump stop which is only the same principle!
    Well I guess if all you want to do is pootle about...
    Production Privee Shan

    B'Twin Triban 5
  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,812
    I far from pootle about, perhaps you should actually try it before you knock it?
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • bennett_346
    bennett_346 Posts: 5,029
    But i can't see how increased rattling would cause the device to be innefective. Is the chain really going to shake so much that it completely throws itself off the chainring and around the device itself? Hard to explain but i can't see how it would make any difference if the design is indeed effective as the chain has nowhere to go even if it did shake around more violently.
  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,812
    Now I'm just not sure what your saying at all.....
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.