Chain Device Help

mcnultycop

I'm going to go 1x10 on the Scandal I'm building. I'm going to run a 32t e-13 Guide-ring, with a bashguard on Deore M590 Cranks on a Hollowtech II Bottom Bracket. The frame doesn't have ISCG tabs.

Will a Superstar Plasma chain device work OK with this, I guess just replacing one of the BB spacers?

Alternatively if I run a Shadow+ rear mech (I'm planning to, whichever type of device I go for) do you think I could get away with just a seat tube mount chainguide?

Thanks in advance.

bennett_346

That superstar thing should in theory work. It just replaces a driveside spacer. A shadow plus would almost certainly remove the need for a bottom guide.

mcnultycop

I might just try the top guide then with a Shadow+; if it doesn't work I can always get one with a bottom guide later as the top one is relatively cheap.

ilovedirt

You're better off getting something with an actual BB mount backplate (as opposed to ISCG with a BB adaptor) as the ones with adaptors can be a pain to set up right as it really messes up your chain line. I've been down this route a few times, and I found a gamut guide with a BB mount backplate to work the best, however it's a little more expensive. If you're willing to go without the bash and lower roller, the superstar XCR guide worked fine for me for XC duties, so long as you have a SS ring on there like the guide ring. No dropped chains at all once it was set up right, fine for even fairly bumpy stuff I found. One thing you might find though is that you may have to grind off the granny ring tabs of the cranks to get it to work properly, particularly on an ISCG guide, you may not need to on a BB mount guide.

ilovedirt

Lol, you replied before I got a chance - yeah with a shadow plus mech and either the seat tube mount or BB mount top-only guide should work fine

The Rookie

Or you could go stealth and use an inner guide ring like the Raidium or BBG ones (or my homemade one, see link in my sig to my Kraken) or using something like an N-gear jump stop.

A Bottom guide is also needed when back pedaling, so a shadow+ wouldn't help with that.....

lawman

The Beginner wrote:

A Bottom guide is also needed when back pedaling, so a shadow+ wouldn't help with that.....

Not in my experience, my zee mech combined with an e13 xcx guide has been perfect so far, with zero dropped chains and no issues. It's a great setup and had it not been for the lower effective bb on the HD I'd run the same guide with my xtr plus mech too, but I like the taco to give me some bash protection. If you can do without a bash guard, a simple top guide an shadow plus mech is all you need IMO.

mcnultycop

I have been looking at the Zee mechs. Cheaper than SLX (or XT) and with a shorter cage; they look a good buy.

lawman

mcnultycop wrote:

I have been looking at the Zee mechs. Cheaper than SLX (or XT) and with a shorter cage; they look a good buy.

Mine has been spot on so far, and given it costs less than a third of xtr, it's nearly as good, not as smooth and a fair chunk heavier, but functionally it's damn near as good. A proper bargain!

mcnultycop

I've just ordered the Zee Mech from JE James. I'm looking forward to getting all this together now.

ilovedirt

lawman wrote:

The Beginner wrote:

A Bottom guide is also needed when back pedaling, so a shadow+ wouldn't help with that.....

Not in my experience, my zee mech combined with an e13 xcx guide has been perfect so far, with zero dropped chains and no issues. It's a great setup and had it not been for the lower effective bb on the HD I'd run the same guide with my xtr plus mech too, but I like the taco to give me some bash protection. If you can do without a bash guard, a simple top guide an shadow plus mech is all you need IMO.

Even without a clutch mech mine was fine for months. With all due respect, the beginner doesn't really know what he's talking about most of the time, a trait to which his title seems to allude

The Rookie

Funnily the last person thatsaid that, a week later told me he'd dropped his chain 3 times when back pedaling for various reasons, but if it works for you, that's fine!

As for ILD - don't think so.....

ilovedirt

Then your mate didn't have it set up right.

mcnultycop

I've decided to give the Raidum a go, just as it looks like the neatest solution (although I imagine cleaning the remaining chainring inbetween a bash and the raidium may be a bit of a pain in the backside). I'll see how I get on and report back.

The Rookie

I have a homemade version of the Raidium fitted, not tried it in anger yet, but the first quick test ride was all good!

mcnultycop

The Beginner wrote:

I have a homemade version of the Raidium fitted, not tried it in anger yet, but the first quick test ride was all good!

I saw that on your thread in the Your Mountain Bikes section. You should start making those.

The Rookie

LOL, cost me £11.40 and about 30 minutes of time, really really not hard, solid bench to work on, jigsaw with a fine tooth blade and a drill with pilot and 8mm bits.

milko9000

Anyone tried the Raidium (or BBG) on a 34t chainring? It's only specced to cope with 32t but I fancy giving it a go. Or maybe I should make my own bodge solution instead... that looks reasonably possible for me to achieve if I can get hold of the material.

The Rookie

Got that off ebay.....you need to measure the diameter of the OUTSIDE of the chain around a 32T and then add about 5mm and that should work.

Mine is 146mm and is sized for a 32T.

milko9000

Yeah I followed your link, although the bloke isn't selling any just now and the other brand you mentioned don't seem to have anything suitable online. But I'm sure I'll find some somewhere.

Could I not just measure the diameter of the outside of the chain around a 34T though?

The Rookie

Have youtried messaging him to ask if he'll be listing soon?

http://www.fibre-lyte.co.uk/ products, 2.00mm is 40p/square inch

ilovedirt

I can't see that working, there's nothing to stop the chain derailing.

The Rookie

Eh?????? maybe you should have gone to specsavers......

it starts to come off, hits the ring and rolls back on - chains don't just leap right off, they derail and then roll off as the chainring turns, check out Bromptons the 1xX geared use the self same system, also options already on the market by Raidium, BBG and widgit....

ilovedirt

I still can't see it working, there's a reason the old MRP guides had rollers on them as well as those dinner plates either side of the chainring.

The Rookie

Fine, but as there are 3 like it on the market already, it implies others can see what you can't (or it just does work and you can't se it!)...wouldn't use for DH, but for XC and trail.....

Besides lots of people use a bash and N-gear jump stop which is only the same principle!

bennett_346

The Beginner wrote:

wouldn't use for DH, but for XC and trail.....

It either works for both or neither. How would DH derail the chain but not XC?

The Rookie

Because the inputs are more severe, you don't see XC WC racers with Sram XI using the same chain retention as WC DHers do you, most XC/trail multi-chainring just use a front mech, as you get to AM/Enduro you see stingers etc.... you adjust the kit for your ride - like not using a Giant Glory round Cannock or a Trek Superfly down Fort Bills DH track!

ilovedirt

The Beginner wrote:

Fine, but as there are 3 like it on the market already, it implies others can see what you can't (or it just does work and you can't se it!)...wouldn't use for DH, but for XC and trail.....

Besides lots of people use a bash and N-gear jump stop which is only the same principle!

Well I guess if all you want to do is pootle about...

The Rookie

I far from pootle about, perhaps you should actually try it before you knock it?

bennett_346

But i can't see how increased rattling would cause the device to be innefective. Is the chain really going to shake so much that it completely throws itself off the chainring and around the device itself? Hard to explain but i can't see how it would make any difference if the design is indeed effective as the chain has nowhere to go even if it did shake around more violently.

The Rookie

Now I'm just not sure what your saying at all.....