the nearly 4.5hr centrury!

ozzy1000_0

Hi all,
I've been cycling now for nearly 2 years. The last two junes I've rode a local century with a nice mix of terrain; 2011 in 5hrs 33m, 2012 in 4hrs 59m. for 2013 I would like to get down into the 4hr 30's and am thinking about having a pop at racing.

I've had a bit of break from cycling and haven't really ridden for most of this autumn. I've gained about 3/4 of a stone and lost a lot of my fittness..... I went out last night on my heavy old winter bike and did 30miles at 18mph.. which nearly killed me.... but I have 6 months to ready myself for june and I'm opimistic... so how do I make the leap from being able to push very hard and maintain 20mph for 5hrs, to being able to do 21-22mph for 4.5hrs??? I've read alot of training books and last year did a few intervals and hill sessions but overall only really about 4-6hrs of riding a week. I tend to ride flat out everywhere which mean I am prone to feeling overtrained and getting colds/flu when I try to do more volume... my gut feeling is that I need to do more zone2 type stuff around my previous strategy to support things???....

any advice is very welcome? how does one train for fairly high speed endurance???

kind regards and thanks in advance,

O

MountainMonster

The best bet is to get out and ride as much as possible. That is always the way forward. As many miles as you can, and work back up to doing centuries, and then progress from there.

ozzy1000_0

ok, thanks. how many hours a week do you think i'd need to be consistenly doing to manage a quick century?

Tom Butcher

A century in sub 5 hours in training on mixed terrain is good going off 4-6 hours training a week - 4.30 is extremely fast assuming you are doing that on a road bike - that extra half hour is a big ask.

I'm not saying that to put you off but if you can do that then you would be racing at a decent level if you had a TT bike or if you could translate that raw sustained power into road racing.

ozzy1000_0

Tom Butcher wrote:

A century in sub 5 hours in training on mixed terrain is good going off 4-6 hours training a week - 4.30 is extremely fast assuming you are doing that on a road bike - that extra half hour is a big ask.

I'm not saying that to put you off but if you can do that then you would be racing at a decent level if you had a TT bike or if you could translate that raw sustained power into road racing.

i reckon i can do it. I didn't have a good year this year, i tried training hard in the spring and got really bad flu, i didn't really recover from it for months and didn't really find my feet in training after that. I did the 4hr 59 and didn't feel good all the way around, sort of bonky;

http://app.strava.com/activities/11622577

and there was also 10minutes of stops. I think If I pace my training properly over the next 6 months to aviod over training I can do it.

I was just wondering how to pitch it.

okgo

You didn't mention it was with other people! Easy in which case, find faster people to ride with.

jgsi

http://www.anfieldbc.co.uk/abc2012results.pdf

Time trial it!
it'll be about the same date this year

ExigeR

Ozzy bit off topic but if you want someone to ride with i live in Crediton.

Send me a pm if your interested.

poynedexter

Tom Butcher wrote:

A century in sub 5 hours in training on mixed terrain is good going off 4-6 hours training a week - 4.30 is extremely fast assuming you are doing that on a road bike - that extra half hour is a big ask.

I'm not saying that to put you off but if you can do that then you would be racing at a decent level if you had a TT bike or if you could translate that raw sustained power into road racing.

+1

an imperial 100 at +20mph, solo, is impressive. especially for 2 yrs work. with 10 min stopping. i'm planning to start open racing this year with nowhere near that ability. :oops:

okgo

Well as we have seen from his link it was with many other people. And not really that hilly tbh.

ozzy1000_0

okgo wrote:

You didn't mention it was with other people! Easy in which case, find faster people to ride with.

we were in a group for the first 40 or so then they dropped me on the moors, from then on it was me and a friend for the rest. but thanks for the constructive training advice anyway.

ozzy1000_0

JGSI wrote:

http://www.anfieldbc.co.uk/abc2012results.pdf

Time trial it!
it'll be about the same date this year

thats amazing!!

ozzy1000_0

okgo wrote:

Well as we have seen from his link it was with many other people. And not really that hilly tbh.

and your piont is what?? this is your second post like this. its not a TT. just a local charity ride that I ride 2 up with a mate. its become a bench mark for us and we'd like to knock another 20mins or so off. all I was asking for was advice on how to take it to the next level.

ozzy1000_0

poynedexter wrote:

Tom Butcher wrote:

A century in sub 5 hours in training on mixed terrain is good going off 4-6 hours training a week - 4.30 is extremely fast assuming you are doing that on a road bike - that extra half hour is a big ask.

I'm not saying that to put you off but if you can do that then you would be racing at a decent level if you had a TT bike or if you could translate that raw sustained power into road racing.

+1

an imperial 100 at +20mph, solo, is impressive. especially for 2 yrs work. with 10 min stopping. i'm planning to start open racing this year with nowhere near that ability. :oops:

its actually 98miles... and I wasn't on my own... I'm also consider racing this year, I think there's local stuff happening near taunton

SBezza

ozzy1000_0 wrote:

okgo wrote:

You didn't mention it was with other people! Easy in which case, find faster people to ride with.

we were in a group for the first 40 or so then they dropped me on the moors, from then on it was me and a friend for the rest. but thanks for the constructive training advice anyway.

Well your OP made it sound as though you can do a 100 at 20 mph without much difficulty, and one would assume you meant solo perhaps. There is a huge difference to doing it solo or as part of a group.

As for the jump to 21-22 mph in a group, as okgo said, find a faster group, or don't get dropped on the hills. The difference in power to do 100 miles at 20 mph to doing it at 21-22 mph is fairly susbstantial to be honest if you were doing it solo or a pair, so the easiest way is a faster group.

Get fit by riding more and doing the ride perhaps on your own, if you can get near 20 mph solo, doing 22 mph in a group should be very easily possible. If you do more volume, cut down on the intensity, pretty sure the training manuals would say the same, doing high volume and high intensity together can be a recipe for over doing it unless you train smart. Then again if only training 6 hours a week, you wouldn't be doing much volume to be honest.

I think you need to work out what time you can spend training each week, and try and be as regular as possible with training rides. If you only have 6 hours a week, doing the majority of this at L2 might prove to be ineffective.

ozzy1000_0

SBezza wrote:

ozzy1000_0 wrote:

okgo wrote:

You didn't mention it was with other people! Easy in which case, find faster people to ride with.

we were in a group for the first 40 or so then they dropped me on the moors, from then on it was me and a friend for the rest. but thanks for the constructive training advice anyway.

Well your OP made it sound as though you can do a 100 at 20 mph without much difficulty, and one would assume you meant solo perhaps. There is a huge difference to doing it solo or as part of a group.

As for the jump to 21-22 mph in a group, as okgo said, find a faster group, or don't get dropped on the hills. The difference in power to do 100 miles at 20 mph to doing it at 21-22 mph is fairly susbstantial to be honest if you were doing it solo or a pair, so the easiest way is a faster group.

Get fit by riding more and doing the ride perhaps on your own, if you can get near 20 mph solo, doing 22 mph in a group should be very easily possible. If you do more volume, cut down on the intensity, pretty sure the training manuals would say the same, doing high volume and high intensity together can be a recipe for over doing it unless you train smart. Then again if only training 6 hours a week, you wouldn't be doing much volume to be honest.

I think you need to work out what time you can spend training each week, and try and be as regular as possible with training rides. If you only have 6 hours a week, doing the majority of this at L2 might prove to be ineffective.

thankyou, this is useful. I have managed 20avergaes for 60odd miles on my own before. but not right now...

this is sort of what I thought I need to do, 4-6hours was average, I did have odd weeks where I managed to commute or ditch the kids for longer weekend runs. I guess that this year i need to focus on routine around making more time for riding, I might try to start commuting acouple of days a week on a regular basis.

I think you're right about cutting down on the intensity, at least at first to accomodate more riding.

Have you had much joy with weights? is there much to be gained by squatts/lunges/step up ect? (bearing in mind I am a fulltime-working-dad-of-two whos moving house and has to make the most of small/few opportunities)

Tom Butcher

Certainly off limited training time no need to do weights. As has been mentioned - the best way to get round a group ride fast is to stay with a group.

The most obvious way to do that is not get dropped on the hills - either really dig in to stay with them, improve your fitness/climbing, or save a bit more energy prior to the hills either by doing less work on the front or improving your group riding skill. On the flatter run home a decent group could easily roll along at 23-24mph.

As far as training goes maybe you'd benefit from doing some hard group rides with hills - or doing some rides where you really attack the hills - or just some interval training. Sounds like you can sustain a good power for several hours but perhaps you lack that top end for 3-4 minutes that would allow you to stick with the group when they really put the hammer down - that is something that people who don't race and who do a lot of solo training often find - they go out and ride hard but it's at a fairly constant level.

Cornish-J

dont have any advice to offer but just wanted to say well done, that is dam good going!

ozzy1000_0

Tom Butcher wrote:

Certainly off limited training time no need to do weights. As has been mentioned - the best way to get round a group ride fast is to stay with a group.

The most obvious way to do that is not get dropped on the hills - either really dig in to stay with them, improve your fitness/climbing, or save a bit more energy prior to the hills either by doing less work on the front or improving your group riding skill. On the flatter run home a decent group could easily roll along at 23-24mph.

As far as training goes maybe you'd benefit from doing some hard group rides with hills - or doing some rides where you really attack the hills - or just some interval training. Sounds like you can sustain a good power for several hours but perhaps you lack that top end for 3-4 minutes that would allow you to stick with the group when they really put the hammer down - that is something that people who don't race and who do a lot of solo training often find - they go out and ride hard but it's at a fairly constant level.

briantrumpet

ozzy1000_0 wrote:

http://app.strava.com/activities/11622577

and there was also 10minutes of stops. I think If I pace my training properly over the next 6 months to aviod over training I can do it.

I was just wondering how to pitch it.

Ah, I did that ride with some club mates in 2012. I'd be impressed if you did get that down to 4h30, as that would be 17 minutes faster than the fastest group on that ride in 2012 (who only had 2 minutes' stop). That'd be quite a margin, and I think you'd only do it with a similarly strong group round you (and benign weather). Good target to aim for though, if ambitious. It would put you up with the best of most club riders.

ozzy1000_0

Cornish-J wrote:

dont have any advice to offer but just wanted to say well done, that is dam good going!

thanks, I was pleased

ozzy1000_0

Tom Butcher wrote:

Certainly off limited training time no need to do weights. As has been mentioned - the best way to get round a group ride fast is to stay with a group.

The most obvious way to do that is not get dropped on the hills - either really dig in to stay with them, improve your fitness/climbing, or save a bit more energy prior to the hills either by doing less work on the front or improving your group riding skill. On the flatter run home a decent group could easily roll along at 23-24mph.

As far as training goes maybe you'd benefit from doing some hard group rides with hills - or doing some rides where you really attack the hills - or just some interval training. Sounds like you can sustain a good power for several hours but perhaps you lack that top end for 3-4 minutes that would allow you to stick with the group when they really put the hammer down - that is something that people who don't race and who do a lot of solo training often find - they go out and ride hard but it's at a fairly constant level.

ok, thanks, I think the biggest message I'm getting from this is to ride more with groups. I have tow good clubs around here that I have ridden with in the past, I'll try and get along more regularly and include more hill repeats in my training.

ozzy1000_0

briantrumpet wrote:

ozzy1000_0 wrote:

http://app.strava.com/activities/11622577

and there was also 10minutes of stops. I think If I pace my training properly over the next 6 months to aviod over training I can do it.

I was just wondering how to pitch it.

Ah, I did that ride with some club mates in 2012. I'd be impressed if you did get that down to 4h30, as that would be 17 minutes faster than the fastest group on that ride in 2012 (who only had 2 minutes' stop). That'd be quite a margin, and I think you'd only do it with a similarly strong group round you (and benign weather). Good target to aim for though, if ambitious. It would put you up with the best of most club riders.

I titled this 'nearly 4.5 hr'. I would like to be under 4.45, preferably in the 4.30's. I have an old club racer friend who's ridden it since it started, who claims to have the course record of 4.34 (I think) but this isn't validated by GPS.. just his mouth... but yes, like you say its quite weather dependant!

this is the best recorded time from 2012:

http://app.strava.com/segments/1632421

this guy was in the front group of about 6-7, I was with them for about 40m, and then me and my friend were dropped but the next people to finish. we had 10 minutes of breaks, the frount group had 2minutes. there was 12 minutes of difference in our total times so only a few between our moving times.. plus we may have made more overall effort being only 2 up.. so my plan (after reflecting on the above) is to develop enough power to not get dropped on the hills, to do less work on the front early in the ride, to ride more with groups... and to just generally try and ride more for endurance and less need to stop/rest... still its a good goal and I don't think its impossible

briantrumpet

ozzy1000_0 wrote:

this guy was in the front group of about 6-7, I was with them for about 40m, and then me and my friend were dropped but the next people to finish. we had 10 minutes of breaks, the frount group had 2minutes. there was 12 minutes of difference in our total times so only a few between our moving times.. plus we may have made more overall effort being only 2 up.. so my plan (after reflecting on the above) is to develop enough power to not get dropped on the hills, to do less work on the front early in the ride, to ride more with groups... and to just generally try and ride more for endurance and less need to stop/rest... still its a good goal and I don't think its impossible

Hehe, yes, I was in that front group too - hadn't seen the Strava. Good luck to you - if I do the ride this year, I haven't decided whether to go for speed or cake. It's damned fine cake.

ozzy1000_0

briantrumpet wrote:

ozzy1000_0 wrote:

this guy was in the front group of about 6-7, I was with them for about 40m, and then me and my friend were dropped but the next people to finish. we had 10 minutes of breaks, the frount group had 2minutes. there was 12 minutes of difference in our total times so only a few between our moving times.. plus we may have made more overall effort being only 2 up.. so my plan (after reflecting on the above) is to develop enough power to not get dropped on the hills, to do less work on the front early in the ride, to ride more with groups... and to just generally try and ride more for endurance and less need to stop/rest... still its a good goal and I don't think its impossible

Hehe, yes, I was in that front group too - hadn't seen the Strava. Good luck to you - if I do the ride this year, I haven't decided whether to go for speed or cake. It's damned fine cake.

LOL!! I was with you up winscombe hill, then I started yo-yoing over those bumpy bits on exmoor and then sort blew... ate tonnes in south molton and kind of recovered for the run home.... it is fine cake but you should go for a time! theres beer at the finish instead of cake. I'll be spinting to the first roundabout to find the front group

Froomes Edgar

Find a nice flat E12 race, sit in the bunch and Roberts yer fathers brother. Might have to do the last 20km on yer own.

Or, start from the top of this: http://www.zanibike.net/altimetria/9835 ... monga.aspx

Top of the Iseran down to Chambery is largely practically all downhill.

Hope this helps