Dave Brailsford
Comments
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ascurrell wrote:Ok Guys fair comments, but I do think that cycling teams are more under the spotlight
and watched more closely than ever before.
Also we're talking about Dave Brailsford. Maybe he took banned substances to help his strategies of Team Sky and the Olympic Teams etc.
If you want to follow PRO cycling, you either ignore the doping issue altogether or you are aware that it is still a problem. Saying this guy is good, this guy is bad based on what they say and do in their promotional videos and interviews makes no sense... it is difficult for a clean rider to win a three weeks race over doped competitors, so either they're all a lot cleaner, which is a possibility, hence my "lets wait and see", or they are all very dirty... time will tellleft the forum March 20230 -
ugo.santalucia wrote:ascurrell wrote:Ok Guys fair comments, but I do think that cycling teams are more under the spotlight
and watched more closely than ever before.
Also we're talking about Dave Brailsford. Maybe he took banned substances to help his strategies of Team Sky and the Olympic Teams etc.
If you want to follow PRO cycling, you either ignore the doping issue altogether or you are aware that it is still a problem. Saying this guy is good, this guy is bad based on what they say and do in their promotional videos and interviews makes no sense... it is difficult for a clean rider to win a three weeks race over doped competitors, so either they're all a lot cleaner, which is a possibility, hence my "lets wait and see", or they are all very dirty... time will tell
Or presume guilty and not innocent until a long period of time and they haven't been caught out?
I agree it has been and still is a big problem in cycling especially as the sport is monitored & tested possibly more than any other sport. The problem is, it sounds as though some people are of the opinion that all, involved are cheats and will get found out in time.
With that attitude what's the point in following it, somewhere along the way benefit of the doubt has to be applied [of course unless some concrete factual information comes to light] as the Sport can never move on. Speaking of the word 'doubt' where can that be applied to Dave Brailsford which at the end of the day is the subject of this posting.
Crikey, I hope in years to come I don't fall off my Soapbox!!! Lol0 -
ascurrell wrote:ugo.santalucia wrote:ascurrell wrote:Ok Guys fair comments, but I do think that cycling teams are more under the spotlight
and watched more closely than ever before.
Also we're talking about Dave Brailsford. Maybe he took banned substances to help his strategies of Team Sky and the Olympic Teams etc.
If you want to follow PRO cycling, you either ignore the doping issue altogether or you are aware that it is still a problem. Saying this guy is good, this guy is bad based on what they say and do in their promotional videos and interviews makes no sense... it is difficult for a clean rider to win a three weeks race over doped competitors, so either they're all a lot cleaner, which is a possibility, hence my "lets wait and see", or they are all very dirty... time will tell
Or presume guilty and not innocent until a long period of time and they haven't been caught out?
I agree it has been and still is a big problem in cycling especially as the sport is monitored & tested possibly more than any other sport. The problem is, it sounds as though some people are of the opinion that all, involved are cheats and will get found out in time.
With that attitude what's the point in following it, somewhere along the way benefit of the doubt has to be applied [of course unless some concrete factual information comes to light] as the Sport can never move on. Speaking of the word 'doubt' where can that be applied to Dave Brailsford which at the end of the day is the subject of this posting.
Crikey, I hope in years to come I don't fall off my Soapbox!!! Lol
Exactly... You can still watch the races, without giving too much importance to the GC. You can give out a trophy and then take it back, but a knighthood is a different story... As I said before it is very embarrassing to take the title back... Look at how Fred Goodwin has impacted on the Blair administration, in terms of imageleft the forum March 20230 -
Well Wiggo is at it for sure.Captainlip wrote:Hes doping can clearly tell. wait and see
This chap is works in the industry so if anyone knows for certain then it's him. :P
"You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul0 -
This makes no sense what so ever. You can't be more rounded but take healthy skepticism. Otherwise you are just ignoring what you think is rubbish - therefore = less rounded!!nickyboy zz wrote:If you have a look at some of the other cycling forums that non-UK pros and ex pros tend to post on perhaps you will get a more rounded perspective on the issue of whether Sky is clean or not. Of course some of them may have anti-Sky agendas so you need some healthy skepticism when reading it.0 -
TheFD wrote:
This makes no sense what so ever. You can't be more rounded but take healthy skepticism. Otherwise you are just ignoring what you think is rubbish - therefore = less rounded!!nickyboy zz wrote:If you have a look at some of the other cycling forums that non-UK pros and ex pros tend to post on perhaps you will get a more rounded perspective on the issue of whether Sky is clean or not. Of course some of them may have anti-Sky agendas so you need some healthy skepticism when reading it.
By "rounded" I meant a different opinion than you get on a UK-centric forum. And I think you may be confusing skepticism with cynicism
Come on, I can't be the only one amazed at Froome's upsurge in form......and don't get me started on Rogers
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I think you are correct. I was confusing the two. :P Skepticism is more of a questioning mind frame. But I would still rather take things at face value and hope (possibly foolishly) that all in Sky are clean!nickyboy zz wrote:TheFD wrote:
This makes no sense what so ever. You can't be more rounded but take healthy skepticism. Otherwise you are just ignoring what you think is rubbish - therefore = less rounded!!nickyboy zz wrote:If you have a look at some of the other cycling forums that non-UK pros and ex pros tend to post on perhaps you will get a more rounded perspective on the issue of whether Sky is clean or not. Of course some of them may have anti-Sky agendas so you need some healthy skepticism when reading it.
By "rounded" I meant a different opinion than you get on a UK-centric forum. And I think you may be confusing skepticism with cynicism
Come on, I can't be the only one amazed at Froome's upsurge in form......and don't get me started on Rogers0 -
ugo.santalucia wrote:mike6 wrote:ugo.santalucia wrote:BigJimmyB wrote:Pessimistic git!
You have to be realistic... go back in history and find a dominance that was not fuelled by drugs of some sort.
German and then Chinese female swimmers, North American sprinters, pretty much all winners of the Tour de France, various football teams... the list is endless.
I hope Team Sky and Team GB are clean, but I wouldn't bet my pension pot on it
Realistic!!!!
No one person or team bangs on about how they can win clean like Brailsford and team Sky. Also they have no secret about how they do it. Marginal gains, total professionalism, nothing left to chance. Top coaches and nutritionists.
No other team that has been so successful has shouted about being clean. No other team attracts so much scrutiny.
Armstrong/Discoveries mantra was "Never tested positive". Not the same thing.
I, for one, am totally convinced they are a team, and management, with the highest ethics.
As I have said more than once, the Brits hate to see there own being successful, and the more successful they are the more **** they get.
There is no reason to doubt them, so why try to fabricate suspicion?
I am not saying team Sky is doped... I am saying something completely different and you should read before shouting... I am saying that before giving out a knighthood, wait and let the matter settle. Time will tell if the man is worth a knighthood. Too many honorific titles are given in a rush (Fred the Shred for instance) and they shouldn't. There is nothing more embarrassing for the State than having to withdraw such an award, it makes it worthless.
More specifically, you have a short memory if you have any: every successful team in the past in any discipline claimed it was down to hard work, preparation, little details and all that gibberish,,, which is partly true... many of those achievements were also down to Cecchini, Ferrari and Conconi... more recently Fuentes and not only in cycling. Cycling is very exposed, while scandals in football have always been covered
Errr...Im not shouting, I am stating my opinion, and there is nothing wrong with my memory, no need for personal abuse.
Why do you follow pro cycling if your first presumption is that everyone is doping? Follow another sport, like football perhaps, they are paragons of virtue I believe.
As I said, Sky have a very, very public anti doping stance, to the point of sacking, or expecting the resignation of , riders or staff who have been involved or implicated in the past. Full compliance with the biological passport system. What more do you want them to do?
Oh.. and as someone has pointed out, you are probably not British, so i apologise for that0 -
Wiggins is as clean as lance was dirty.
As to wait a few years before giving brailsford a knighthood - well how long do you wait ? Savile proved you'd best not give honours until after they've popped their clogs.0 -
mike6 wrote:
Why do you follow pro cycling if your first presumption is that everyone is doping? Follow another sport, like football perhaps, they are paragons of virtue I believe.
If you read the posts, which you have not, I have mentioned football too. There have been several scandals in top level football, which have been hidden...
Juventus were on trial for team doping in the 1990s, when they had a dominance in Italy and Europe... they were also linked to the use of EPO. Inter Milan was fully doped at the high of their success in the 1960s according to their own players and Valencia was linked to Fuentes at the high of their success about 10 years ago...
That adds up to suspicious cases of mini-strokes among players of AC Milan, more recently.
Even in football the list in endless
Luckily none of the above received a honorific title for their successesleft the forum March 20230 -
ugo.santalucia wrote:mike6 wrote:
Why do you follow pro cycling if your first presumption is that everyone is doping? Follow another sport, like football perhaps, they are paragons of virtue I believe.
If you read the posts, which you have not, I have mentioned football too. There have been several scandals in top level football, which have been hidden...
Juventus were on trial for team doping in the 1990s, when they had a dominance in Italy and Europe... they were also linked to the use of EPO. Inter Milan was fully doped at the high of their success in the 1960s according to their own players and Valencia was linked to Fuentes at the high of their success about 10 years ago...
That adds up to suspicious cases of mini-strokes among players of AC Milan, more recently.
Even in football the list in endless
Luckily none of the above received a honorific title for their successes
Emmm...I did read your post, that is why I responded to it. My comments about football were very much tongue in cheek. If you had been British you would have recognised it as sarcasm.0 -
y33stu wrote:I'll go one further, and suggest he's one of the most successful sporting coaches/leaders/administrators the UK has ever had. What he has masterminded is nothing short of amazing.
Suggestions please for who has done more than him in any sport over such a period.
Jurgen Grobler? He's been making the rowers a success for donkey's years now.0 -
Pross wrote:Jurgen Grobler? He's been making the rowers a success for donkey's years now.
I'll happily concede I don't know enough about Rowing to comment on that
Cycling prints
Band of Climbers0 -
mike6 wrote:ugo.santalucia wrote:mike6 wrote:
Why do you follow pro cycling if your first presumption is that everyone is doping? Follow another sport, like football perhaps, they are paragons of virtue I believe.
If you read the posts, which you have not, I have mentioned football too. There have been several scandals in top level football, which have been hidden...
Juventus were on trial for team doping in the 1990s, when they had a dominance in Italy and Europe... they were also linked to the use of EPO. Inter Milan was fully doped at the high of their success in the 1960s according to their own players and Valencia was linked to Fuentes at the high of their success about 10 years ago...
That adds up to suspicious cases of mini-strokes among players of AC Milan, more recently.
Even in football the list in endless
Luckily none of the above received a honorific title for their successes
Emmm...I did read your post, that is why I responded to it. My comments about football were very much tongue in cheek. If you had been British you would have recognised it as sarcasm.
Mike, let's leave it like this before I get upsetleft the forum March 20230 -
Fair enough mate, I'm not here to make an enemy of anyone. Have a good and safe new year.0
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Probably best, as I got fed up of hearing about all the rules other people broke as a reason Dave Brailsford shouldn't be recognized!!!0
