Bikes fallen off carrier then gone walkies

TanukiRider

Not really sure where to put this thread folks so Im putting it here!

Some mates of mine and myself were on our way to Anglesey for a ride yesterday morning, and 3 bikes fell off the carrier. We didnt realise until we had travelled another hour or more, by the time turned around there was no sign. Today one of the local club lads let me know he had found my bike wheel on the side of the road with some bits of the bike carrier. My bike was in the middle of three strapped together.

Without wanting to go into how they came off in the first place, what Im hoping to establish is, if they fell off, and were removed from the road and not reported to the Police, is this then theft? We werent given a crime number yesterday as they had no sufficent reason to believe they were stolen. Now we have located the spot where they came off and recovered some bits from there, and the bikes are clearly not there, will they now call it theft?

We are claiming on the car insurance, and Im not hopeful, but...... tbh I just want my bike back

I have posted pics in the stolen thread, if folk could keep their eyes peeled Id be grateful...... bearing in mind the Scott is now minus the rear Cosmic Elite!!

de_sisti

I'm sorry but,,, :roll: HTF did the driver not notice in his/her rear view mirror (assuming they check it regularly
when they're driving) that the bikes had fallen off. It beggars belief?

TanukiRider

It was pitch dark, pissing with rain and blowing a gale...... as I said, I dont want to get into that. Im not seeking to blame anyone, just asking for some thoughts.

GiantMike

The Police will let you know what is and what isn't theft (or what they're prepared to act on). If you have left something somewhere I'm not sure whether that counts as theft. Somebody may have thought they had been discarded.

Several years ago I found a golf bag in the road outside my house. I reported it to the police, padlocked the bag to a lamp-post for the next 2 days in case the driver returned. He never did return and didn't contact the Police either and I was told to keep them or dispose of them.

Do you have the frame numbers of the bikes and a good description?

TanukiRider

Yeah I see your point Mike...... cant think why anyone would discard a TCR2 and a Scott CR1, the Kinesis, maybe

Yeah frame numbers and I can describe my bike down to the last little scratch. Im hoping they turn up on eBay or somewhere ultimately, but........

Cleat Eastwood

even if they did turn up on ebay it's hardly theft. Think of it from the finders point of view, they come across what looks like a dumped bike, which for all they know is fecked - best you could hope for would be polite message and hope for the best. Bad luck anyway - not about the bikes but having to go to anglesey.

pastey_boy

If the bikes had been properly attached this would not have happened sounds harsh but its all your fault also somebody could have been seriously hurt or even killed due to three bikes bouncing all over the road. I hope you get them back but this is a lesson on how not to use a cycle carrier.

cornerblock

TanukiRider wrote:

I can describe my bike down to the last little scratch

I do sympathise, a similar thing happened to a friend recently, but I think the scratches may be a bit bigger now.

desweller

I think you and your mates will have to chalk this one up to experience. It's not like you can blame anyone but yourselves for losing the things in the first place is it?

Gizmodo

I'm sorry but "your property" is stuff you own, not stuff that you found at the side of the road and took home without trying to find the correct owner.

The World Cup was found wrapped in newspaper at the bottom of a garden in 1966, so of course the person who found it is the legal owner :shock:

If you find a wallet containing credit cards at the side of the road, you own it so are legally entitled to use them :shock:

I saw a TV fly-on-the-wall Police series where they watched a man pick up a cat scratching post that had been put put by the rubbish. They stopped him, full blue lights, and made him put it back where he found it. Their argument was, it was not his to take, even if it was by the rubbish bins.

If you find something you do NOT own it. You have a legal duty to take reasonable steps to find the owner.

While losers may no longer have physical possession of an item, they still retain legal entitlement to it.
Therefore, in England and Wales, as well as in most other countries across the world, the onus is on the finder to take what the law describes as "reasonable steps" to track down the loser.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8129534.stm

If you report the loss to the police and then see the bike for sale, if the finder did not report the find then they are guilty of theft.

desweller

Gizmodo wrote:

I'm sorry but "your property" is stuff you own, not stuff that you found at the side of the road and took home without trying to find the correct owner.

The World Cup was found wrapped in newspaper at the bottom of a garden in 1966, so of course the person who found it is the legal owner :shock:

If you find a wallet containing credit cards at the side of the road, you own it so are legally entitled to use them :shock:

I saw a TV fly-on-the-wall Police series where they watched a man pick up a cat scratching post that had been put put by the rubbish. They stopped him, full blue lights, and made him put it back where he found it. Their argument was, it was not his to take, even if it was by the rubbish bins.

If you find something you do NOT own it. You have a legal duty to take reasonable steps to find the owner.

While losers may no longer have physical possession of an item, they still retain legal entitlement to it.
Therefore, in England and Wales, as well as in most other countries across the world, the onus is on the finder to take what the law describes as "reasonable steps" to track down the loser.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8129534.stm

If you report the loss to the police and then see the bike for sale, if the finder did not report the find then they are guilty of theft.

Sounds great.

How do you propose to enforce this, Oh Great One?

TanukiRider

He doesnt, thats what the Police are for.

Thanks Gizmodo, that is pretty much what I thought. If I find a wallet, I'll hand it in to the police station, ok, Im a good egg and theres lots of scrotes out there, but, common human decency ought to prevail. Something isnt yours just because you found it.

And folks, please, I know it was our responsibility to check the load, of course I would feel bad if they bike had caused an accident, and I know the only people to blame are ourselves - please, you are trying to teach me to suck eggs, and that isnt what I asked for.

desweller

There's almost no evidence. No break-in, no pre-meditation, won't fit the MO of any local scrotes so could be anyone.

The police can't work miracles.

TanukiRider

Theres the bits we found, including my back wheel, photographed in situ before we removed them. The fact the bike are no longer there kind of suggests someone has removed them. If they have removed them, they have a duty to report it to the police. In fact, are you not obliged to inform any obstruction in the road to the police to have them remove it? I dont drive a car so I dont know, but I certainly would as a cyclist.

Im not asking anyone to perform miracles, but if I point out to them a bike that I believe is mine to them on eBay and the bike is reported stolen, be it form my back garden or where it fell off, I'd hope they would do something about it.

lucan2

For it to be theft you have to know the motivation of whoever moved the remains of your bikes off the road. If someone removed them because they were an obstruction they could be waiting for the council to collect them. They could have reported the finding to the police, but which police? The nearest police station? The one nearest to the end of their journey or the one near their home? Difficult to establish as you don't know who found them. If you report this incident to the police are likely to record it as lost property as there isn't sufficient evidence of a crime having been committed, in my view.

tiredofwhiners

Gizmodo wrote:

I'm sorry but "your property" is stuff you own, not stuff that you found at the side of the road and took home without trying to find the correct owner.

No, no individual has any responsibility to trace the owner of stuff discarded at the side of the road with no identification. Nor is the side of the road a place that you have the right to store your property. You discarded it through negligence so I guess a court could fine you for littering. Its a reasonable assumption that not bothering to secure the laod means you were not that worried about keeping it.

Gizmodo wrote:

The World Cup was found wrapped in newspaper at the bottom of a garden in 1966, so of course the person who found it is the legal owner :shock:

The World Cup was stolen, not discarded by a careless previous owner.

Gizmodo wrote:

If you find a wallet containing credit cards at the side of the road, you own it so are legally entitled to use them :shock:

No, as the cards don't belong to you in any case - they belong to the CC company. Use of them does not automatically extend to the finder.

You made a bad mistake and are trying to berate others for not trying to track you down. If they do track you down, pray it doesn't come with a large bill for dumping a large amount of scrap metal on the roads and damaging the cars that hit it.

surfatwork

By common law, the finder can claim ownership of a lost item against everyone, except the original owner. There is no provision which "requires" the finder to trace the original owner, but to claim ownership, the finder should have taken some steps to find the original owner, such as notifying the proper authority - in this case, the police, presumably. It is upto the person who lost it to go and claim it back from the police. If ownership is not claimed within a period of time (6 weeks?), then the authorities can handover the lost items to the finder. Once returned like this, the original owner cant claim them back.

Some more info here: http://www.thesite.org/homelawandmoney/ ... stproperty

capt_slog

If you find something and take it, it's called "theft by finding".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_by_finding

If you found a bit of your bike by the side of the road I think that it's likely the rest of the bike(s) have been 'found' and collected by the multiple axles of a following artic.

TanukiRider

Can someone point out to me where I berated anyone for not reporting it to the police, cos I just can't see it!! I'm not berating anyone, just hoping that someone is honest enough to give them back. Not going to happen, but.......

We searched the roadsidein both directions for half a mile both directions and both sides of road, no evidence at all of damaged bikes. If they had been hit, there would be bike parts all over the place. They may be cosmetically damaged and perhaps some minor damage, but it appears they were intact and have been taken.

To those that seek to make me feel worse by pouting out our failing, you can't, so don't bother please. And to those of you who are doing it and never had an accident, I sincerely hope it never happens to you.

To those who have tried to answer my question, my thanks.

rookieroadie

Tiredofwhiners,
Never heard such rubbish!
Why would these bikes be discarded through negligence etc.I doubt for 1 second they put their expensive bikes on a carrier thinking/hoping theyd fall off somewhere on their travels.
Your other comments are a joke,as is your whole 'contribution.'

TanukiRider

Lucan2 wrote:

For it to be theft you have to know the motivation of whoever moved the remains of your bikes off the road. If someone removed them because they were an obstruction they could be waiting for the council to collect them. They could have reported the finding to the police, but which police? The nearest police station? The one nearest to the end of their journey or the one near their home? Difficult to establish as you don't know who found them. If you report this incident to the police are likely to record it as lost property as there isn't sufficient evidence of a crime having been committed, in my view.

If I found a bike in the road, id feel for the person that lost it, becuase I'd know how id feel if it were mine. Id contact the police in my home town, and also any neighbouring police forces. I'd contact any bike shops and bike clubs in the area as well. Id rather have a fiver reward for being honest and returning it than being dishonest and trying to flog it at someone elses expense.....

tiredofwhiners wrote:

You discarded it through negligence so I guess a court could fine you for littering

"discarding" it, yeah, im a millionaire and can afford 20 bikes, I toss em away like sweet wrappers, hence why I came on here to ask my original question. :roll:

ben@31

DesWeller wrote:

There's almost no evidence. No break-in, no pre-meditation, won't fit the MO of any local scrotes so could be anyone.

The police can't work miracles.

Obama holds a contest at Camp David between the FBI, the CIA and the LAPD. He shows them a rabbit, then releases it into the woods. The team who catch the rabbit are the winners.

The FBI team go first. One hour later they return and tell Obama, "Mr President, we found the rabbit. However, since it had not commited a Federal Crime, we were forced to let it go."

"Bullshit," says Obama, "You did'nt find the rabbit."

The CIA team go next. An hour later they return and tell Obama, "Mr President, we caught the rabbit and put it on an Extraordinary Rendition Flight to Camp X Ray."

"Bullshit", says Obama, "You guys did'nt find the rabbit."

The LAPD team are last to go into the woods. One hour later they drag a naked, hand-cuffed black man out and throw him down if front of Obama. The prisoner has been shot in the legs, one of his arms is broken, there are several Taser marks on his body and his face is swollen and bloody from repeated baton strikes. He looks up at Obama and screams,

"OK! I confess - I'm a fcuking rabbit!!"

TanukiRider

Im actually shocked that someone not from around here knows the "MO" of my local "scrotes"

I think its fairly apparent that if the bikes were removed from where they were found and hasnt been reported to the police by know, whoever moved them has no intention of trying to find the owners.

cornerblock

Have you tried local bike shops? The bikes would surely have sustained some damage from the fall and they just might have put them in to be repaired. Long shot maybe but worth a try.

TanukiRider

I have, thanks. Contacted all the bike shops in Mid Wales and Shropshire, and all the bike clubs as well. Someones definitely going to need a wheelset or back wheel anyway, cos my back wheel is staring me in the face as I type!

DrKJM

Don't understand why this isn't clear cut to everyone. The OP made an acknowledged mistake in failing to make sure his bikes were secure. Who hasn't made a mistake before? That in no way gives anyone the right to claim title to them, and an honest person would at the very least call the local police or in some way make an attempt to find the owner. Keeping quiet and hoping the owner doesn't come looking may not be illegal, I don't know, but I for one would not be happy keeping the company of such a lowlife. You find something - you make a reasonable attempt to return it, commensurate with the value of the find.

dodgy

Bad look mate, at first I was ready to pile in and say "wtf! How did your bikes fall off!", but you made it perfectly clear you were taking full responsibility. Not sure why other posters couldn't just accept that and move on.

Anyway, I doubt if you'll see your bikes again and I also doubt you have a valid insurance claim, but it's worth giving them a call maybe?

I would imagine the bikes would have been severely damaged after falling off and clattering across the highway before settling into a slide on tarmac. Probably badly damaged enough to convince the finder they've found some discarded junk

Good luck anyway.

TanukiRider

I wouldnt have thought, three expensive looking bikes all strapped together, and if they were that badly damaged I expected to find bits of shifter levers, bottle cages..... the breakable stuff. Ive no doubt at all there will be some major scuffs on them. Mine was in the middle so may have fared the best of the three though, but, tbh, Im not that bothered.

I'd be happier if whoever took them had made an effort even if they were wrecked, Id rather have a broken bike back, tbh thought of someone having an early xmas bonus at my expense riles me, even though its our own fault.

But I agree, I doubt we will see them again, unless someone either develops a conscience or sells the on eBay......

dodgy

But your mate found your back wheel by the side of the road? That suggests some kind of damage surely? Unless the wheels were already not attached to the bike when you put them on the rack? I'd be surprised if the bike finder took the wheel off and just took the bike and one wheel away.

TanukiRider

Exactly.... but if the bike was damaged, then surely the seat and chainstays would be attached to the wheel? Also, there wasnt a mark on the wheel, bar a bit of a gouge on the top of the qr lever...... so, im guessing it wasnt on too tight and has popped open and the wheel bounced when they hit the deck, maybe even the wheel of the bike in front caught the qr and pulled it open. A delivery driver from locl bakery said he saw something at side of road where we found the wheel at about 7.30..... we went through there about an hour earlier, so I dont think the bikes were there long.

herb71

You only lost the bikes on Saturday night. Had I been the one to happen across them, first I would move them off the road so as not to cause an accident. Assuming I had the space to carry them they would now be in my garage where they would stay until at least Monday when my local station is open for business. Remembering that some stations are only open part time, getting your bikes back to you is hardly life or death and people are busy at this time of year it might not even get reported until the end of the week.

I would be inclined to give the finder the benefit of the doubt before claiming they have been stolen.

I don't understand how your rear wheel and bits of the rack were left behind. That suggests to me your bikes are in less than complete condition. I would check the local recycling centre to see if some well meaning individual has moved an obstruction from the road and taken it to the tip.