Hit by a car - do I claim ?!

turnerjohn

Like some advise guys and gals.....
Last Tuesday night coming back from training; I've a white helmet, all white jacket and overshoes, a 1200 lumen light on flash mode and another 4 LED Moon on flashing mode...I'm in the cycle lane; near as dam straight road; two way traffic and nice and wide so lots of space...traffic is free flow and busy. I'm probably travelling very slightly faster then traffic but not by much...around 22mph. Now for the bit I don't remember as I've no recollection of it but from what I've been told......car on my side slows and flashes the driver on the opposite side to turn just as I'm passing the T-junction (no traffic lights; its an uncontrolled T-junction minimal access...I've riden that same road for 2years at least twice a week so know the road very well). Now although I''m going fast I know I wouldn't have been going stupid as theres a roundabout up ahead which I always slow for...to many idiot drivers who doing understand the "give way to traffic on the right!" anyway I digress........now all I remember is a brief moment inside some very kind passer buys kitchen while I wait for the ambulance and then coming round in hospital A&E ! I didnt hit my head (helmet hasn't a scratch) but my shoulder took a massive hit (I've damaged my A/C joint a little) and it appears I'd gone down his door side so not a direct impact. Hospital seem ok about it and seen the doc today who says rest for 4 weeks and it should get better...hum. He also mentioned physio and could take a while....something I'm not relishing !
Anyway the police took statements and seemed pretty happy; even when I said "im really sorry but I can't remember the accident....they told me the guy had been flashed through and didn't see me. His called me and does seem genuinely concerned about me but did ask was I planning on going don the insurance route....hum and this is where I'm stuck.....
So far LBC say the wheel needs replacing (even though its only out by a small amount) so thats £160, my glasses were also run over so thats about £200. The bike looks ok (Trek Madone 6.5 2008 model) now although the LBC haven't seen it their take is "if its carbon and its been involved in anything impact to bin it and have it replaced" now we start talking serious money and this is where I need advise. Yes its hard to advise if you can't see the bike / fork / wheel but the bike looks fine. The only damage; other then a slight buckle / crisp to the wheel was my front shifter was rotated inwards (guessing my hands were on the drops or I'd have had a bust hand) but even the carbon lever is fine and seems to function ok....just damaged bar tape.
So my question is what do I do !
Do I just ask the guy to pay for wheel and glasses or do I go down the insurance route (I'm with CTC and their legal cover is very good) which if I'm honest I don't want to do as I'd feel like I was taking the p*ss with a new £2k+ frameset etc.....
Whats everyones feelings on this ?....although I can probably guess !
Cheers in advance !

Philinmerthyr

I'd speak to the CTC legal people and get the bike checked professionally. If you don't you may accept cash and find that there is further damage too late. Are you also sure that your injuries are not too severe? Make sure you get everything checked and take legal advice before deciding. You don't owe the bloke any favours, he hit you.

gezebo

To be honest from what you've described I feel that you should have been going slower. Just my opinion though...

mouth

Regardless of how fast you were going the offending cager pulled across your path. Hang him out to dry. CTC is the way forward.

turnerjohn

I see your point gezebo but then what would you call to fast ?....its very subjective and what one person thinks is fast another is quite confident with.
Yes guys I had the feeling you were going to say that and it's what my friends have been saying as well.
I've been told the only way to properly check the frame is to have if x-rayed which (the LBC recon) costs £400.....don't suppose anyones heard of this being done or where I'd go ?
I dont want to take the p*ss and claim for a perfectly good frame (if it is OK) but I equally don't want to be shafted !
My injury (atm) seems managable but yes in time could be worse.
Thanks for eveyones input :-)

fossyant

Took over 3 years for my AC joint to get better after a car impact. Fairly minor injury that never went away, £3k physio, a/c joint de-compression operation after 2 years, various nasty pain meds for nerve damage, then steroid injections for trigger points. All OK now, but got a good payout after 3.5 years. Would rather it not have happened though.

Speak to a solicitor and keep in touch with the Doc.

ad_snow

Blame = Claim = New Frame

bernithebiker

If a car wants to pull out onto a road, or cross the oncoming lane, it is THEIR responsibility to check the path is completely clear of cars, bikes, pedestrians, whatever. If they have to do it very slowly and inch forward, checking all the time, so be it.

THEY are the ones driving a 2 ton hunk of metal, THEY should be careful.

You were in the cycle lane doing no wrong. It's black and white for me, the insurance should cough up on this one.

ad_snow

bernithebiker wrote:

You were in the cycle lane doing no wrong. It's black and white for me, the insurance should cough up on this one.

+1.

Besides, just because someone flashes you (or waves you on during daylight hours) doesn't mean you shouldn't check for yourself!

Critch

Doesn't really matter how fast the OP was going (certainly not the speed mentioned). Lit up like a Christmas tree and in a cycle lane is not negligent or reckless although had the OP seen the driver and perhaps anticipate what might happen next it could have been avoided but there is zero blame on the cyclist. The driver of the offending vehicle is at fault - its careless driving and the driver should have anticipated the potential presence of a cyclist to also be present.

And there lies the problem with flashing other drivers. Flashing headlights at someone means "I am here". Kind of, 'look I'm flashing at you in case you didn't see me dude!' It does not mean, "I'm giving you right of way, proceed Sir". Of course nearly everyone does it to mean exactly the latter and its become accepted in driving. If you proceed on a flash you take the all the risks that go with it. It does not mean it is safe to proceed though or instantly give you magical right of way. Thats why you won't see many Police officers flash someone to proceed under normal circumstances (although many do - bad training tbh). If they do and the other driver knocks over a pedestrian or worse the driver will say, "Well the Police car flashed me through and I took it as also being safe". Litigation commence! Don't do it is my advice unless you really have to.

OP, go through CTC and do it all properly and thoroughly.

styxd

You're probably best off talking to the CTC.

The fact you have witnesses and the police were involved means it'll go your way.

This happened to me recently. There were a few options: Ask the driver to just pay for my stuff, go to a solictor or go to their insurers.

I didnt want to ask the driver directly for cash, as the bike stuff cost several hundred. And then there's the injuries (which I don't know how to put a value on)

The solictors was who I initially went to. They said my injuries would have to be worth at least £1000, otherwise they wouldnt consider it. I was going to go ahead, but I couldnt really be arsed reading through all the forms and they said a claim could take 6 - 12 months.

I contacted the drivers insurers and gave them the details of the accident and damage and injuries. They offered me £2500 on the spot. I accepted, no messing about, got a cheque in the post a week later. I was happy with that.

I'd say your injuries are definitely worth £1000 by the sounds of it! 4 weeks rest, plus physio, fairly serious stuff. I think if you let the solicitors sort it, you'd end up with a fair chunk of cash (several thousand I'd guess, more than what I got).

Also, another thing to consider - will your injuries prevent you from doing your job?

Definitely do it properly though, the insurers will pay up. And thats what they're there for. Don't feel guilty.

rich164h

I think you need to make a decision based on the situation and subsequent inconvenience, not on the financial issues. Remember that a few thousand pounds to a car insurance policy is nothing. If that same car had hit another car instead of a cyclist the bill would be far greater. Yes you need to be compensated financially, but don't let the issue of whether it's a few hundred or a few thousand pounds influence your decision.

I'm the sort of person who doesn't come down hard on people who make genuine mistakes, but from what you've described I'd think that a CTC person should be consulted and then you should make a claim for the entire bike, not just the wheel and glasses. Claims on the health front, only CTC could advise I'd guess.

priory

definitely get witnesses and police statements requested now and phone the ctc solicitors.
The bang on your shoulder might settle down in a few weeks or it might become a permanent problem, preventing you cycling and swimming as you would like and perhaps causing expensive work problems. Rotator cuff injury could need surgery eventually.

you have to get the claim rolling now as there are time limits .

as I have said before, if you scratched his paint and it was your fault he and his insurers would go after you for thousands for the repair and loan car without hesitation. They might still try to frighten you off by threatening that because they may not be as nice as you think. Your injuries are the most important bit probably. get it all documented and phone the solicitors right now.
And do not just take the first offer from the other side unless your solicitor is happy with that and your injuries seem to be healed.

seanorawe

These claims take a very long time to come through. If you have the money, I would advise to pay for the damage yourself, and let your solicitor sort out getting it back. If the driver admitted liablilty at the scene, it will be much easier. Your solictor may also push for a peronal injury claim. Its up to you if you want this or not.

Bustacapp

Claim because even if he paid you cash it would be more than his premium hike.

pmk

Definitely make a claim and definitely get your shoulder checked out. I was hit by a tipper truck in June and while my initial concern was my bike and gear, I also incurred an injury to my shoulder which my local GP gave me ibroprufen for. Anyhow following submission of claim with lawyers I was referred in Dec to private doctor to get my shoulder checked out, it transpires I incurred a slight fracture to my clavicle and have a permanent "knobbly bit" on top my shoulder as a memento. Dr states it will still take further 8 weeks to clear up as I can get occassional stiffness.

It is my impression insurance companies place more emphasis on personal injury than damaged property.

johnny2names

turnerjohn, you sound like a scrupulous and honest fella, and I can sympathise with your feeling of not wanting to take advantage of someone who made a genuine, unlucky mistake. However, I concur with the general tone of the responses. You are in no way to blame for this, first of all, and your injuries could turn out to be long lasting and expensive. Go through with the insurance claim etc... to make sure you are covered for all medical expenses, and for full cost of your bike damage. Remember, the drivers cost will only be the excess on his insurance + loss of no claims bonus. Incovenient and a cost for him, but what's more important is you in this case. DO NOT feel guilty, this is what insurance is for. wishing you a speedy recovery

diy

I'm pretty sure there is a precedent on this - There is an obligation to check when you pass a side road, so arguably your lack of observation will be a factor, but it wont reduce your claim by much. In any case the cycle lane will make a difference as the driver turning will need to check both lanes are clear.

Based on your post - you should claim for the whole lot including the PI. You never know what lasting problems you will get from the injury.

Its not personal - its why drivers are insured. My guess is that the insurance co will offer a contributory negligence based settlement. They will argue you were riding too fast and didn't check the junction was clear) You wont have any choice in if its accepted or not if you are using insurance to pay legal fees. Your legal insurance will assess if the offer is good enough and you will be required to accept it or pay your own fees.

Good luck - but definitely make claim. If there is no lasting complication I reckon £3-6K for the injury plus bike damage.

drlodge

This is exactly why I joined British Cycling (recently), so if I was in this situation I could get good legal advice.

I would definately make a claim for compensation, why wouldn't you?

phy2sll2

Agree with the above.

Get representation. Don't bother trying to deal directly with the driver (he'll stop answering the phone as soon as he realises your bike cost more than £70) or the insurer as it won't be a satisfactory outcome for you.

bernithebiker

diy wrote:

I'm pretty sure there is a precedent on this - There is an obligation to check when you pass a side road, so arguably your lack of observation will be a factor, but it wont reduce your claim by much.

I find this a little hard to believe; do you have any examples of this?

Velonutter

To the OP, just have a chat and be honest with the CTC bods, like you I hate these injury solicitors @ssholes the lot of them, however if your claim is genuine then you have nothing to feel guilty about.

Claim for what you need and not a penny more, if you have health issues then make sure you are covered with compensation for that.

I had a head on about 10 years ago riding my motorbike, it wasn't fast but was enough to give me reoccurring nightmares, I fell on my left hip and lower back, thought nothing of it until was checked by specialist and they said I would have pain for the rest of my life, I found it hard to believe but they were right, I did claim and glad that I did because sometimes it even stops me riding my bike now.

Just act honest and truthful and what you get back is justified.

Defyand

PleAse ask yourself, Why wouldn't you......?

The Ors

How long did your memory loss last? This is what would concern me the most I think.

diy

bernithebiker wrote:

diy wrote:

I'm pretty sure there is a precedent on this - There is an obligation to check when you pass a side road, so arguably your lack of observation will be a factor, but it wont reduce your claim by much.

I find this a little hard to believe; do you have any examples of this?

There are a few, but as I said the status of the cycle lane is key.
Worsfold v Howe (1980)
Leeson v Bevis & Tolchard Ltd (1972)
Davis v Schrogin (2006)

Anyway not my area of specialism, so better for the OP to get advice from someone who will be representing him professionally. My point is that there are established precedents for passing queues of traffic at side roads.

You also have HWC rule 72, 74 etc

Simm0

You should have the guy prosecuted if that is an option and use your CTC cover to make a full claim. I say this from experience as I didn't do that and regretted it. I had damage to both legs which seemed fine at the time and my bike was totalled. I have since had surgery, my knees are damaged for life and his insurance company denied blame albeit I had 2 independant witnesses. If his insurance denies liability which is almost guaranteed you will stand a lot better chance if the guy has been charged by the police, even if you have witnesses. You may think this seems harsh but at the end of the day your shoulder may never recover to where it was and your frame may fail. Why should you go through all the hassle for someone else's mistake? I made that mistake but won't make it again, I had to take the guy to court where I won but it was a lot of hassle I shouldn't have had to go through and IMO there is something seriously wrong with the system.

Valedoc44

Without question you must claim and use the specialist solicitors already indicated via CTC.

As mentioned by others, injuries are not always immediately apparent and then can take ages to heal.

This site offers guidance http://www.cyclistsdefencefund.org.uk/w ... en-a-crash

teulk

Personally i would claim, as already mentioned the driver is insured so why not claim - i don't mean this in the sense " where there's blame there's a claim", why be out of pocket for something that's not your fault. The driver may be willing to pay but if you told him you were looking at say £1 - £2k would he still be willing ? The chances are the driver that hit you didn't even see you as you would have been hidden by the car alongside you.
I don't know if any blame can be passed onto driver that was alongside you for flashing the car , if he passed you then he should have seen you, if you came from behind alongside then he may not have known you were there. Either way its not your fault and you should claim for all that you need to fix / replace your bike and to compensate for any injuries.

turnerjohn

Hi guys
Thanks for such a great responce from you all its very much appriciated and all the info and advice has put my mind at rest !
I kind of figured everyone would say claim; and yes its the route I'll be going down with CTC (their calling me back on Monday).
My main real concern is the fact I still don't remember exactly what happened...I didn't hit my head but 'm guessing the impact of my shoulder much has shook my head pretty violently and hense being out cold / dazed.
As I said I know the road extremely well and I'm always careful especially on that bit as its reasonably quick but there is still very good visibility as the road is wide (both sides) flat and straight....I'm at a loss as to how he didn't see me considering white helmet, white jacket etc, one very very powerful light on flash and another bright 4 LED on flash.
Someone mentioned the driver who flashed him through...yes they should have seen me as well....the light is so bright it would be clearly visible in their near side wing mirror. I'm guessing it was a combination of things but at the end of the day he pulled out in front of me,
I'm not going to take the p*ss but I need to get my bike back to a useable safe standard which I'm guessing means new front wheel, forks and frame....I will speak to CTC and see what they suggest.
As for my shoulder the hospital say its a (I think) "type 2 A/C joint displacement" and told me to rest for 4 weeks (thats going to be very hard !) see me again after 6 weeks and possible physio. If you'd seen the xray you'd have thought my shoulder was broken ....made me sick looking at it ! Most of the time its a dull ache although very painful if I catch it wrong....its going to take a while to get fixed I feer .
Anyways guys thanks again for all your relies and advice ...its appriciated

sheffsimon

turnerjohn wrote:

Hi guys
Thanks for such a great responce from you all its very much appriciated and all the info and advice has put my mind at rest !
I kind of figured everyone would say claim; and yes its the route I'll be going down with CTC (their calling me back on Monday).
My main real concern is the fact I still don't remember exactly what happened...I didn't hit my head but 'm guessing the impact of my shoulder much has shook my head pretty violently and hense being out cold / dazed.
As I said I know the road extremely well and I'm always careful especially on that bit as its reasonably quick but there is still very good visibility as the road is wide (both sides) flat and straight....I'm at a loss as to how he didn't see me considering white helmet, white jacket etc, one very very powerful light on flash and another bright 4 LED on flash.
Someone mentioned the driver who flashed him through...yes they should have seen me as well....the light is so bright it would be clearly visible in their near side wing mirror. I'm guessing it was a combination of things but at the end of the day he pulled out in front of me,
I'm not going to take the p*ss but I need to get my bike back to a useable safe standard which I'm guessing means new front wheel, forks and frame....I will speak to CTC and see what they suggest.
As for my shoulder the hospital say its a (I think) "type 2 A/C joint displacement" and told me to rest for 4 weeks (thats going to be very hard !) see me again after 6 weeks and possible physio. If you'd seen the xray you'd have thought my shoulder was broken ....made me sick looking at it ! Most of the time its a dull ache although very painful if I catch it wrong....its going to take a while to get fixed I feer .
Anyways guys thanks again for all your relies and advice ...its appriciated

Just in the process of doing exactly the same myself, got pulled out on by a car in broad daylight, AC joint separation, cops, ambulance, physio etc etc. Using a solicitor to process everything, and havent spoken to the person involved at all.

Like others have said, who knows how long your shoulder will be knackered for...

west green

Same thing happened to me, except i wasn't cycling fast, and the guy was very apologetic - SMIDSY. I brushed myself off he helped me put the chain back on and I went off. 3 weeks of cycling later I noticed steel fork was slightly out just below the headset - in fact it took most of the impact of hitting his door - but I thought it was ok at the time. Long story short it cost me £80 to replace. Make a claim as yours sound much worse, and who knows what's happened to a carbon frame.