war on britains roads

Teddy Westside

Zingaro134 wrote:

whats the youtube channel of the man that gives out driving tickets

http://www.youtube.com/user/SonofthewindsInc/videos?view=0

http://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/travel/vigilante_cyclist_patrols_highgate_to_expose_dangerous_drivers_1_1070072

The "speccy 24 year old" is "Cyclegaz" who has a website: "Silly Cyclists"
I started to watch his videos some months back but soon grew tired of the style. And some of the examples were so minor as to be non-events compared to what I've experiences myself. He wants to "educate" everyone (an admirable concept) but I find it all quite annoying after a while.

I've been confronted by motorists threatening physical violence, jamming their brakes on in front of me repeatedly and so on. Incredibly, one time when I threw my hand up in disgust at a dangerously close overtake, the driver actually pulled over, got out and... apologised for not realising how close they were. The one and only genuine apology I've ever experienced.

Perhaps if motorists realised how intimidatory it is to even pass on or near the line marking out a cycle lane in many cases, we might all get a long a little better. Don't get me started on irresponsible cyclists though, they are a large part of the problem when it comes to motorists deliberately being antagonistic.

kentphil

Its not a war, its about driving and riding safely. That guy in glasses certainly isn't helping things.

thefd

I missed it. Not on iplayer yet. Does anyone know when it goes onto iplayer?

Teddy Westside

I was never in favour of the programme being titled as it was - too sensationalist and only getting people worked up before even watching it. What I would have liked is for it to be followed up by a TV debate, provided it was controlled so as not to become a Jeremy Kyle type of debacle.

greggbaker

The poor mum who lost her daughter was so brave and having to watch the idiots racing who almost deserved to be crushed by a lorry (or at least not be surprised if it happened) must have been very painful.

It's knocked my confidence a bit as a new cyclist, and I wouldn't cycle in London for any money.

As for speccy, he couldn't stop smiling and I actually think he was getting off on the confrontation and being on the telly. He'll get slapped before long, maybe by another cyclist!!!

Scary stuff!!!

bluedoggy

Hard to watch with my wife. She said to me in a direct manner 'I Hate you commuting, it scares me deeply and always have'
It does put the wind up me:( especially when I have two very young children.

binsted

Werbo wrote:

Even though slightly biase to cyclists, I have to say Garath the specy 24 year old is a complete tool and personally I think it's embarrassing to cycling.

Sadly I have to agree, so much could have been avoided, it did appear a lot of them on both sides were looking for confrontation.

secretsqizz

binsted wrote:

Werbo wrote:

Even though slightly biase to cyclists, I have to say Garath the specy 24 year old is a complete tool and personally I think it's embarrassing to cycling.

Sadly I have to agree, so much could have been avoided, it did appear a lot of them on both sides were looking for confrontation.

oi, you calling me a cycling IT geek or what?

kingrollo

Thought it showed cyclists in a bad light - biased towards motorists IMO.

I was hoping to see gangs of cyclists harrasing 4X4 drivers - and no cycling documentary is complete without critical mass getting a mention

Joeblack

The traffic droid was the most embarrassing, pulling up people on mobile phones, giving out tickets!! He even grabbed that RLJ by the backpack at the next light, we so often talk about invading personal space and he feels its ok to lay his hands on another person, I'd have gone captain lip on him, people like this only serve to widen the divide between cyclists and road users.

No one has mentioned the complete tool hurtling down a towpath and nearly killing the black lady, as said before its 50/50 people need perspective.

colint

Wasn't quite as bad as I thought it might have been, the courier racing at the end was out of context but overall reasonably balanced I thought.

Traffic droid seemed to have some psychological issues, and the guy with the glasses (Gaz) just came across as an endbell imho. Lot's of the situations he got himself into could have been avoided.

Hopefully the coverage of some of the driving will just make drivers think a bit more, I'm sure most who drive like morons don't actually consider that they just might kill someone, and the coverage of the poor lady who lost her daughter was pretty hard to watch.

jazloc

I've put the full video up on Youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Gb5FV0PSzM

y33stu

I thought it was fairly split. Most of the cyclists on there were riding shockingly - like the guy who mowed down the pedestrian. My biggest argument about the whole show was that it was too london focused. Yes there was a bit from Glasgow, but as there seems to be so many crap cyclists in London, drivers in London end up hating cyclists, which then has a knock on effect in different parts of the country - through shows like that, the daily Mail etc..

I would imagine in most cities outside London, cyclists and drivers get on ok - like here in Newcastle. Yes there's a few idiot drivers and cyclists, but nothing like in the smog.

I just hope drivers across the UK don't tarnish all cyclists with the same brush.

stan1000

Overall I thought it was 50/50 too.
Gaz from the program didn't come across very well, however on youtube he also collates other cyclists and drivers bad form in a combination of his and others camera footage on the channel Silly cylists. I find this channel quite similar to the program. Both drivers and cyclists need to respect others in highly congested areas. I'm glad I dont have to commute/drive in London or other major urban environments.
check out http://www.youtube.com/user/sillycyclists

binsted

Joeblack wrote:

No one has mentioned the complete tool hurtling down a towpath and nearly killing the black lady

Cannot understand why he would not slow down, ring his bell or give them a call 50 yds before to let them know he is there.

50% of that show last night could have been avoided by a small application of common sense.

Teddy Westside

binsted wrote:

Joeblack wrote:

No one has mentioned the complete tool hurtling down a towpath and nearly killing the black lady

Cannot understand why he would not slow down, ring his bell or give them a call 50 yds before to let them know he is there.

50% of that show last night could have been avoided by a small application of common sense.

That incident was 50/50 until the point it was obvious the cyclist made no effort to slow down while approaching a pedestrian already in the middle of the path. We all know pedestrians are almost as unpredictable as loose dogs as far as making sudden changes of direction or speed. The ladies were in the wrong for not looking behind them before turning off the path (and should be walking on the right hand side to begin with! - Highway Code) but the rider was going far too fast under the circumstances. He should have seen there was an exit ahead and have slowed down in case the pedestrians turned off (or someone else entered without slowing down).

So, whilst both parties were at fault, the cyclist was the one who could predict the probability of a collision (as he could see the ladies ahead) and should have taken the precaution of slowing down.

thefd

TheFD wrote:

I missed it. Not on iplayer yet. Does anyone know when it goes onto iplayer?

It's on iplayer now!

colint

Teddy Westside wrote:

binsted wrote:

Joeblack wrote:

No one has mentioned the complete tool hurtling down a towpath and nearly killing the black lady

Cannot understand why he would not slow down, ring his bell or give them a call 50 yds before to let them know he is there.

50% of that show last night could have been avoided by a small application of common sense.

That incident was 50/50 until the point it was obvious the cyclist made no effort to slow down while approaching a pedestrian already in the middle of the path. We all know pedestrians are almost as unpredictable as loose dogs as far as making sudden changes of direction or speed. The ladies were in the wrong for not looking behind them before turning off the path (and should be walking on the right hand side to begin with! - Highway Code) but the rider was going far too fast under the circumstances. He should have seen there was an exit ahead and have slowed down in case the pedestrians turned off (or someone else entered without slowing down).

So, whilst both parties were at fault, the cyclist was the one who could predict the probability of a collision (as he could see the ladies ahead) and should have taken the precaution of slowing down.

Shouting out "its a cycle path" after he'd hit her summed up his attitude. Reminded me of the "single file !" drivers

Teddy Westside

Something that concerns me is how this programme will impact on the attitude of motorists, particularly those who frequent the motoring equivalents of this forum. Just as there are a number of "road warriors" on here, there are doubtless a significant number of "Jeremy Clarksons" and "James Martins" on those sites who will see this as red rag to a bull.

I think we, as cyclists, are in a tricky position of describing our love of the sport and day-to-day activity without either sounding like smug speed freaks (to paraphrase from last night, "I love being able fly past cars queued up") or namby-pamby hippies ("I love the spiritual feeling of being on the bike"). Most of us probably do feel one or both of those things, but putting it into words, especially on an emotive programme, doesn't come across too well. :?

"Traffic Droid"? I think he means well, trying to educate bad road users. The trouble is that 99% of road users neither want to be educated or even believe they need to be educated, least of all by some anonymous member of the public. If the same initiative was taken by the Police, posting videos online as a warning of potentially dangerous behaviour before prosecution, it might have a positive effect. But it would need to be well-publicised. But would even that work? Hmmm...

I've spoken to cyclists running read lights to point out they give the rest of us a bad name and one of them said exactly what I know the rest of them think - "I don't care!" :roll:
I end up feeling the need to apologise for other cyclists when that happens, including a case where someone rode through a pedestrian crossing. I said, "We're not all like that" and the pedestrian thanked me. I felt I'd kept one person on our side. Now that's the real war - getting non-cyclists to realise most of us are law-abiding and respectful road users.

I also don't think the idea of prime position was well illustrated and had it have been, maybe more motorists would understand better why a rider "takes up the whole $~%&@$ lane!"

As I said previously, I think there should have been a studio discussion (with everyone from each "side" mixed together to avoid us v them) following up on the issues raised.

Teddy Westside

colint wrote:

Teddy Westside wrote:

binsted wrote:

Joeblack wrote:

No one has mentioned the complete tool hurtling down a towpath and nearly killing the black lady

Cannot understand why he would not slow down, ring his bell or give them a call 50 yds before to let them know he is there.

50% of that show last night could have been avoided by a small application of common sense.

That incident was 50/50 until the point it was obvious the cyclist made no effort to slow down while approaching a pedestrian already in the middle of the path.

...

So, whilst both parties were at fault, the cyclist was the one who could predict the probability of a collision (as he could see the ladies ahead) and should have taken the precaution of slowing down.

Shouting out "its a cycle path" after he'd hit her summed up his attitude. Reminded me of the "single file !" drivers

Agreed. I admit to pointing that out to careless pedestrians myself but only if they've been rude or dangerous towards me (loose dog running out in front of me for example, then trying to blame me). I just say it more accurately - that the path in question wouldn't have existed if it weren't for cyclists (true in the case of the particular paths I'm talking about).

But if I were the guy in that video, I would have been far more sheepish. To be fair, he did seem concerned for her and stopped her from rushing to get up, but he could have waited till she was calm and on her feet before making his point - a point which should have been that it's a shared cycle path and that they were both responsible for shared safety.

Of course, in light of the fact he was bombing along behind someone unaware of his presence, he should probably just have kept that thought to himself on this occasion, curse the pedestrian in his head and realise he was to blame as well! :roll:

There's always a decision to be made in the heat of the moment: 1) To make your point in the hope the other side gets where you're coming from and mends their ways, or 2) Move on, put it down to experience whilst realising the idiot will probably do the same thing next time. Realistically, 9 times out of 10, option 1 won't make a blind bit of difference but it's hard to hold back from trying it all the same when the adrenaline's pumping and you've possibly been closer than you'd like to ending up in hospital, or worse.

Teddy Westside

Bear in mind this was written before the programme was aired but it makes interesting reading: Bike Biz - "BBC1's War on Britain's Roads doc may breach BBC editorial guidelines"

The Alley Cat footage really had no place in this documentary without very clearly stating that it was a staged "contest" between couriers and no way an example of the majority of regular riders. Couriers (and I appreciate there may be some on here) tend to be a law unto themselves - the cycling equivalent of taxi drivers - and certainly don't help bridge the divide between motorist and cyclist.

I suppose much in the same way that it would be far harder to lower the speed limits on our roads (your food may take longer to get to the supermarket, your business meeting may have to start later etc, etc), couriers (whatever their vehicle) are trying to meet deadlines and riding fully within the law would mean clients and courier companies having to relax their expectations and delivery times respectively. Neither of the above examples are excuses by any means (I want lower speeds, I want safer couriers - however many wheels), just reality. Modern society just won't accept waiting a bit longer for things.

EssieP

anthdci wrote:

seems a very balanced documentary. Some cyclists give the rest of us who follow the highway code a bad name.

I didn't see any sense of balance in the prog.
I cycle to work every day and experience 1 driver shout his mouth off every 2 or 3 years. Hardly a "war".

I hope the BBC, in the name of balance, will follow up with a similar prog about drivers:
I see 3+ cars run a red traffic-light EVERY time they change around here,
Most cars on the outside lane of the motorway are tailgating, (on the M6 anyway)
70% of drivers admit to speeding,
About 1/4 of drivers don't use indicators
...manywho do will signal right to go straight-on at a roundabout.
Drivers killed 1,901 (in 2011)
whereas, cyclists kill 1 every few years..
etcetera etcetera... (you get the idea)

See the thread in "Commuting", where I made a point about "giving us all a bad reputation". I really object to that concept!

TakeTurns

Cycling in London is definitely difficult. I used to live more central but have moved towards the M25 because of it. It takes away the joy of the sport. You're always having to be over cautious of not getting yourself killed.


The Alley Cat clip was completely out of context. It's a competition, a very mad one indeed. It didn't have it's place in the documentary. It's a bit like adding a clip of fast car enthusiasts racing through the tunnels of London during the night. Dangerous and putting others lives at risk, but it would make no sense to put it in.

clelanj

Just picked this up on BBC I-Player - mind blowing!

Thanks for drawing my attention to it.

Cycling is Forever

They've just upped the ante in the war

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20614593

diy

It was clear that there are cyclists with little knowledge of road safety/advanced driving etc, declaring themselves as self appointed experts. That is clear from the debates here. So much of being a safer driver/motorcyclist/cyclists is about attitude. So many of the conflicts could have been avoided by the cyclist taking avoiding action.

We as a community seem to feel that since we have a right to use the road (which we of course do) we are not required to take avoiding action to prevent conflict. There were clear cases of cyclists continuing at speed, out wide when it was obvious to every idiot on the planet that the car/taxi/lorry/bus was intending to move in to the path of the cyclist.

I cannot imagine why it is such a stupid idea to slow down or stop in this situation. I thought the lady who'd lost her daughter summarised it well. Its about collaboration not conflict, collaboration is the only way. Road measures, laws, lanes, attitudes which put us in conflict with cars are not going to fix the problem.

drlodge

dynamicbrick wrote:

I wonder how many of us, in his cleats, would have slowed earlier when noticing the artic to let him get to the roundabout ahead, and just avoided the danger altogether?

I made this point to my girlfried - cyclists can see the roundabout better than motorists as we're higher up and no obstructions from the car door pillers. So if its clear we have a tendancy shall we say, to go straight across a roundabout without slowing down.

I am always on the look out for the idiot who hasn't seen me, would slow down and if I saw that lorry, would eye ball him and slow until I knew he had seen me, and was certain he was slowing down sufficiently.

As others have said, you have to ride defensively on the assumption that no one has seen you until you're sure they have, and taken appropriate action. All I need is eyes in the back of my head!

Teddy Westside

Cycling is Forever wrote:

They've just upped the ante in the war

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20614593

The worrying thing is, that dog's got better awareness than most human road users!

jotko

Joeblack wrote:

No one has mentioned the complete tool hurtling down a towpath and nearly killing the black lady, as said before its 50/50 people need perspective.

That was at the Bristol end of the Bristol/Bath cycle path - it a right nightmare, especially at rush hour. Cyclists, gangs of school kids, dog walkers (often with dogs off leads) all weaving around and joining/leaving the path from both sides. Its a slight downhill towards Bristol so without trying people can be going fast.

I have crashed twice on that bit of track, once time fairly seriously. I was heading out of Bristol towards Bath when some guy barrelling down the hill at about 20mph on a mountain bike swerved over onto my side of the track to dodge some traffic on his side and smashed into me head on. No idea how I didnt break anything, the impact broke the steel fork of my Croix De Fer, wrecked the headset, and mashed up my arm and shoulder. I was going in a straight line on my side of the track,up a hill, at about 10mph, minding my own business. Eedjut.

I avoid that bit of the track altogether now, its bloody dangerous, not helped that there are numerous strava segments through there :roll:

Jolly Swagman

I have never seen such girly-men punches from the motorist in the silver car that decked the bloke on his way back from Dover. The cyclist should be ashamed of going down so easily.

And as for Gareth, Web Developer, 24, well he would try the patience of a saint. I think he used to fag for me at Eton.