Tyres for very dry hard packed trails with gravel?

Dougtanian

Hi,

Been doing a lot of XC, but recently found some nice trails.

I'm new to the place so just discovering new areas. It's near Zaragoza in Spain so it's very very dry and rocky desert conditions. The trails I've seen are narrow, hard, dusty earth with rocky, gravely climbs/descents.

I currently have what came with the bike (Rapid Robs) which are great for low rolling resistance but I find the front especially gives no confidence going into cornering.

I go out on my own and it's pretty remote, so looking for a tyre that will inspire a bit more confidence but at the same time has some decent rolling resistance (it's 16km to the trails and back home).

any ideas?

ilovedirt

Minions. Or at least one on the front.

bennett_346

Agree minion up front, something fast rolling on the rear.

Dougtanian

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I'll check out the Minions. What's a decent fast roller for the rear, something like a Racing Ralph? Is this a good upgrade on the Robs?

ilovedirt

High roller?
I don't have much experience with any tyres other than Maxxis.
Could be worth getting dual ply for a bit more grip and pinch-flat resistance on the really rocky stuff.

bennett_346

Never been a fan of high rollers front or rear, found them very unsupportive and floppy. Dual ply may solve that but it isn't without its weight penalties. I'd personally go for a specialized purgatory rear as for me it ticks all the boxes, doesn't break the bank and it held up very well in the alps this summer where other similar tyres pinched.

Anonymous

Dougtanian wrote:

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I'll check out the Minions. What's a decent fast roller for the rear, something like a Racing Ralph? Is this a good upgrade on the Robs?

I've got 2 Racing Ralph's the performance type though if interested.

supersonic

What is your bike? Is weight a concern? How rocky is rocky?

ilovedirt

cyd190468 wrote:

The specific tyre is less important the the right size. Loose over dry means narrow but knobbly tyres are needed.
Ignitors 2.1 Nevegals 2.1 Minions are great but heavy Nobby Nics are great but expensive. I personally like Ignitors for loose over hard conditions as the consistant tread pattern doesn't have a vague transition between centre and edge grip but they're not particularly fast rollers, fairly light though.

Well it kind of depends how loose... Unless he's riding actual gravel (which i doubt), narrow tyres would be pretty silly, pinch flats galore.

Dougtanian

What is your bike? Is weight a concern? How rocky is rocky?

Cube LTD Race (Hard Tail, 26" tyres)

Weight: I'm not entering any races but at the same time I'm covering a lot of km so I'd rather keep weight down if possible.

Regarding the terrain. Almost always bone dry. The trails are in the desert mountains/hills and are along the ridges, gorges etc. Regarding how Rocky, it's narrow concrete hard dirt, with a scattering of sharp gravel and rocks. Then in some of the gorges there's some bare (smoother) rock that needs to be negotiated.

This is not me but I found a video of one of the trails (struggling to identify what tyres these guys are using)... this will give an idea of the terrain.

http://youtu.be/NMU20Z_jwjQ

As for tyre thickness it's something for me to look into. Just getting into MTB more these days and don't know enough about the pros/cons of thin/thick tyres.

felix.london

Bonty XR4?

http://bontrager.com/model/09476

The Rookie

For Dry, then Michelin Dry mountain 2, they are amazingly fast rolling (I usually have to brake on decents when riding in a group, sometimes even when they are pedaling I'm braking to stay with them) hard wearing yet grip really well all the time it's dry, cope just fine with light showers turning the surface slimey, work fine on wet rocks (Cannock) but wet roots and they are evil (really scary evil), clog badly in sticky mud as well.

I run them on mine when it's dry and love them, not too heavy (644g for a 2.3) lots of volume and I got the pair from on-one for £20 and in 200 dry miles have barely worn the bobbles off.

TimB34

Regarding the terrain. Almost always bone dry. The trails are in the desert mountains/hills and are along the ridges, gorges etc. Regarding how Rocky, it's narrow concrete hard dirt, with a scattering of sharp gravel and rocks. Then in some of the gorges there's some bare (smoother) rock that needs to be negotiated.

Can't see the vid, but I've ridden a bit in Spain over towards barcelona, and quite a bit in southern France. For dry and rocky trails I don't really like Schwalbe tyres - Racing Ralph works well, Nobby Nic felt a bit squirmy BUT they both seemed to cut up quite badly on the sharp rocks. Not catastrophic due to the SnakeSkin versions I had, but the they were both covered in oddly wet patches which seemed to be Stans seepage. I suspect that Schwalbes work better in northern Europe on softer soil.

I haven't tried the latest Michelin tyres, but I have tried a combination that a guy from St Feliu recommended to me : Maxxis Larsen TT on the back and Specialized Captain (or Maxxis Ignitor) on the front. Fast rolling, low knobs that grip without squirming about on hard dirt surfaces and rubber that doesn't cut up on sharp rocks. Both the Igntor and Captain also have a continuous profile - I couldn't get on with the Nics and the gap between centre and edge tread, it never felt like I was on the edges when cornering although this is probably due to my extreme lack of radness and rubbish cornering skills.

supersonic

I'd look at these:

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... 235in-9368

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/kenda-tomac-sma ... -mtb-tyre/

I'd say minions are overkill for that terrain (and bike)

lostboysaint

In Canada and the States WTB Mutano are popular for that kind of surface. I've used some here in the summer and found them really, really good.

Thewaylander

cyd190468 wrote:

The specific tyre is less important the the right size. Loose over dry means narrow but knobbly tyres are needed.
Ignitors 2.1 Nevegals 2.1 Minions are great but heavy Nobby Nics are great but expensive. I personally like Ignitors for loose over hard conditions as the consistant tread pattern doesn't have a vague transition between centre and edge grip but they're not particularly fast rollers, fairly light though.

Nobby Nics are never good with any kind of rocks....

tarbot18

I regularly ride coed y brenin s various trails , marin trail etc and never had a problem on my Nobby Nics and they are rocky greasy trails ,
have you ridden with them and if so which type, performance, evo, snakeskin etc etc
I ride with a nn 2.25 evo up front and an 2.25 snakeskin out back year round in all conditions and find them grippy as a grippy thing.

EdW

You probably just need a new, grippier, front tyre. My bike came with Rocket Ron's, & I found they washed out a lot in the corners, so I got a Nobby Nic for the front. If you want to stick with Schwalbe, i'd recommend a Nobby Nic 2.25 Evo snakeskin.

The front tyre at 24sec in the video looks like a Maxxis Ardent to me, which might also be a good choice.

Dougtanian

Thanks for all the replies guys! Really helpful and I'll look into all these brands/types

Did a bit of browsing round some other lbs in my area, the one where I bought my bike is very unhelpful, after I bought the bike of course! >:-(

They seem to have a lot of the Kenda Small Block 8 or similar type treads so I'm thinking they must be quite popular with the locals.

One other thing, I'm running tubes but should I be looking to run tubeless on this terrain. No punctures so far after 500km... maybe I've just been lucky though?

njee20

Nobby Nic/Racing Ralph 2.25" Double Defence.

Alibran

I live in the south of Spain, a little way inland from Malaga. The trails here are dry hardpack (most of the year) with a lot of loose, sharp grit and gravelly stuff (although not deep gravel) and loose rock in varying sizes. After rain, they also get some deeper gravelly sections where water has run along/across the trails.

I started out with Racing Ralphs and didn't get on with them. There wasn't enough rear wheel grip on the climbs, and descents were very sketchy. I replaced them with Conti Mountain King II, the ProTection version so I can run them extremely soft with tubes - I weigh just over 7 stone and have been running at 10f/14r - but I'm not averse to going tubeless if I start to get snakebites.

The MKs feel soft and sticky, but haven't shown any signs of damage over the first 30 or so hours of use. The rear skips out sometimes, but you're going to get that on loose stuff whatever tyres you use. Since I've had them on the bike, I've only had one moment when I really thought I was going to lose the front (but it didn't happen), and I've gained a massive amount of cornering confidence. I'm also finding certain descents fun and challenging when I just found them terrifying on the Ralphs.

When I did my research, everything I read put the MKs neck and neck with Nobby Nics (apparently the tread pattern is identical) and what swung it for me was one review that said MKs are marginally better in the dry.

Whatever you choose, I'd recommend running the lowest pressures you can get away with.

lostboysaint

Nobby Nics or Mountain Kings on hardpack? Why?

As I said, in the States and Canada virtually everyone was on WTB Mutano, tubeless, 2.2 if they could still find them and 2.4 if they could fit them in their frames.

Those that weren't on Mutano were on Weirwolf!

cooldad

lostboysaint wrote:

Nobby Nics or Mountain Kings on hardpack? Why?

As I said, in the States and Canada virtually everyone was on WTB Mutano, tubeless, 2.2 if they could still find them and 2.4 if they could fit them in their frames.

Those that weren't on Mutano were on Weirwolf!

So you said, but why?

70\ʹspenguin

I found the Small Block 8s to be fast and tough. The regular Ralphs are faster and lighter but my god they puncture easy with tubes so i would recommend going tubeless! I dont know what the DD versions are like, so perhaps they would be the best to go for?

Another option would be the Conti Race King RaceSport versions black chilli stylee. Quick and light. They do a protection version too for added sidewall/puncture protection.

MK's seem like overkill, but if you wanted something similar then the X-King black chilli would be better.

The Americans tend to stick to their home brands and personally i believe this is why there's a lot of WTB. Its similar with here; you tend to see far more Conti and Schwalbe.

Alibran

lostboysaint wrote:

Nobby Nics or Mountain Kings on hardpack? Why?

Because the knobs grip well on the

Alibran wrote:

loose, sharp grit and gravelly stuff, and loose rock in varying sizes.

As I stated in my post, I started out with the less knobbly Racing Ralphs and

Alibran wrote:

didn't get on with them. There wasn't enough rear wheel grip on the climbs, and descents were very sketchy.

There you go. Question already answered.

badgerbadgerbadger

Maxxis Ikons or Small Block 8s.

benpinnick

+1 for Small Black 8s. No finer dry tyre.

70\ʹspenguin

benpinnick wrote:

+1 for Small Black 8s. No finer dry tyre.

cant beat small black 8's 88888888888888

The Rookie

Have you tried a Michelin DM2?

Dougtanian

Think I'm going to go with the small block 8 as 95% of the time it's bone dry here.

I was browsing the lbs website the other day and it even say's as a note next to the model of bike I have that the tyres should be changed if riding aggressively due to the nervous nature of the bike... would have been nice if he'd mentioned this at time of purchase

Anyway, what size should I go for, 2.1 or 2.35? I have 2.25 tryres at the moment. Will dropping to the 2.1 lose me the grip I'm looking for? Or would 2.35 be overkill/heavy?
Also, would 2.35 fit without rubbing on my forks? I'm sure I read somewhere these Kenda tyres are a bit larger than specified, at the moment I think I could fit an extra 0.1" but it would be getting tight to the brake cable tie point on the inside of my fork.

70\ʹspenguin

2.1 would be fine as they come up quite large volume. I dread to think how huge the 2.35 are.