Weight Training during Rest Week

Wattson

New to the forum, been lurking for a while - seems like you're a well informed crowd

I'm at the end of a solid 3 week base 1 block with lots of time on the bike. Starting to enjoy and see the results of strength training and wondering if it's ok to continue (and move to heavier weights/lower reps) during my rest week.

I'm 27, Cat 3

My week is roughly structured:

Mon: Core/Stretching or Rest
Tue: 2 hrs with 4 x 10 min hill reps @ FTP
Wed: 1 hrs Full Body Weights (3 x 15 Reps for each move and 4 x 20 Squats)
Thur: 3hrs Endurance/Tempo with a few small climbs around sweet spot, low cadence
Fri: 1.5 hrs Full Body Weights or Endurance Ride
Sat: 3-4 hrs Group Ride - Generally easy but ventures into VO2 watts on some short hills
Sun: 3-4 hrs Group Ride or 45 min Cross Race

Week 1 = 13 hrs + 2 hrs Weights
Week 2 = 10 hrs + 2 hrs weights (Cross Race)
Week 3 = 14 hrs + 1.5 hrs weights

Doing great sleep, hydration and diet wise so was relatively fresh until about Saturday of week 3. Did 5 hrs on Saturday and suffered for the last 2 and finished myself off for the 3 weeks with a few short Strava leaderboard attacks yesterday.

Plan for this week:

Mon Rest
Tue 1.5 hr Full Body - 8 Rep Sets
Wed: 1 hr Very Easy Spinning
Thursday 1.5 hr Full Body - 8 Rep Sets
Fri Rest
Sat 1 hr easy with a few short hard bursts to get legs ready to race
Sun Short Xmas Hamper Race – Only aim is to not get dropped/crash

All thoughts appreciated.

Trev The Rev

Why are you doing weights?

Wattson

Curls to please the girls...I'd like to keep this topic on track please.

Which is...Is reduced time on the bike enough to allow recovery and adaptation and will some stress from weight training be ok?

I know weight training is controversial but I'm doing it anyway. Strength is a limiter and I want to balance my cyclists "physique". I'm thinking more Gilbert and less Rasmussen.

ric/rstsport

it's highly unlikely that your strength is limiting your cycle racing. Unless perhaps you have issues with say standing, or walking upstairs (which you may do, i don't know)

ric

jibberjim

It's extremely unlikely on such a relatively low amount of training that a "rest week" is useful, you're not getting enough stress in the on weeks to need 7 days off! I would see no problem in continuing your weights if you are taking that time off.

Wattson

Ric,

My sprint dropped off as soon as I stopped weight training last year so I feel it's beneficial and I want more torque for the steep hills that suit my style (puncheur). My core strength was non-existant last year and I feel better on the bike already after 6 weeks of core work.

Jim,

I don't think my workload is all that low for the first 3 weeks of training this year...750 ish TSS for weeks 1 and 3, 600 for week 2 plus weight training. I feel I need a rest week physically and mentally.

I work 40 hrs/week.

ric/rstsport

sure, there's a benefit of doing ('good') weight training to help sprint ability (after all i recommend it for the track sprinters i work with). On the other hand, doing the correct type of weigh training will likely be detrimental for events such as road racing or TTing, etc.

Even up extremely steep hills, the force requirement for cycling is really low (such that untrained people can generally manage it). It's the issue of maintaining the force - which of course is a metabolic issue.

Even if your core strength is really low, the requirements in cycling are so low that there would have to be either something physically wrong with you (i.e., cycle racing is probably the least of your issues) or your bike set up isn't great. For e.g., we can sense that the forces we generate in our legs while riding are significantly higher than the forces we need to generate from our core -- yet, the forces in the leg are tiny -- for someone who is ~70 kg, the individual average leg force you need to *win* a mountain time trial in the Tour de France are about 13 kg. So, presuming that you weigh more than 13 kg and you can stand up, then up can already generate forces that are a significant greater magnitude than that required by your legs, which we know (by feel) are considerably larger than that required by our core (standing upright requires more forces).

Ric

Wattson

I understand your argument Ric about the relatively low forces in cycling. That's why churning around in the big ring isn't advised (Hunter Allen) for gaining strength.

If I'm riding a 15% hill and can't produce the sort of power usually can for that duration because my cadence is too low surely force is the problem? How do I get more?

ric/rstsport

Wattson wrote:

I understand your argument Ric about the relatively low forces in cycling. That's why churning around in the big ring isn't advised (Hunter Allen) for gaining strength.

If I'm riding a 15% hill and can't produce the sort of power usually can for that duration because my cadence is too low surely force is the problem? How do I get more?

It really means that you have the incorrect gear ratios...

lets say you're riding up the hill at *about* 13 km/hr (just doing this quickly), you're probably hitting about 350 W if you're about 70 kg and if you're in 39 x 23 you're probably pedalling at about 60 revs/min. You'll need about 16 kg of force on average for each leg.

Most people don't use gearing that is low enough (although of course if you only very occasionally have a steep hill to climb then you'd probably not both getting extra low gears).

okgo

I have seen no difference in short terms efforts from stopping heavy weight training, and I'm now stronger in every duration than I was when I was weight training, and obviously faster up hills too as I have lost some muscle mass and am lighter. That is all the evidence I need that its time probably better spent on the bike.

I do still go to the gym, but only to do some core stuff and look at the girls.

Herbsman

Pervert!

bahzob

Nothwithstanding what Ric believes strength training forms part of many top endurance athletes.

The most relevant example from our sport is Bradley Wiggins who included 3 early morning sessions per week in his winter training in the run up to his win this year and he specifically cited this as one reason he was climbing better.

It's somewhat hard to believe he would get up to do sessions at 6 a.m. if they were of no use.

He also mentions doing specific high power (20 @min FTP) low rev (50rpm) drills to help improve his pedalling torque. (Though ofc he does apply what Ric says and use a gear that allows him to maintain a high cadence 90rpm+ when competing)

Ofc he may be wrong and Ric right but then only one of them has won the Tour de France. I also believe he could climb stairs before he started doing weights, indeed I seem to recall he could climb mountains pretty well too. The fact he recognised he had weaknesses and did some specific work to address these is the one of the key reasons he had such a great year. His open mind was pretty much the opposite of some here and far more refreshing.

All this said a couple of hours of weights is probably too much as doing a full body routine. I would be inclined to focus on core work for which 15 mins 3-5 times a week should be plenty. I would only add extra routines if they are targeted at a known weakness as Wiggins did.

ut_och_cykla

From the other end of the spectrum - you'll really only see real improvements/changes in strength/body shape with regular weight training. which probably means at least 2-3 times/hours a week, every week. If you've got time - fine, if you're struggling to find time to cycle skip the weights? or at least only do them off season and be prepared to sacrifice some cycle ability during/after the period.

Murr X

bahzob wrote:

Nothwithstanding what Ric believes strength training forms part of many top endurance athletes.

The most relevant example from our sport is Bradley Wiggins who included 3 early morning sessions per week in his winter training in the run up to his win this year and he specifically cited this as one reason he was climbing better.

All this said a couple of hours of weights is probably too much as doing a full body routine. I would be inclined to focus on core work for which 15 mins 3-5 times a week should be plenty. I would only add extra routines if they are targeted at a known weakness as Wiggins did.

Pro cyclists and athletes in general are notorious for training dishonesty... Armstrong was a classic example. Just because Wiggins is saying it does not mean for one minute he is doing it, lines may well have been fed to him for the cameras.

Trying to find out exactly what training top pros are doing is very difficult and kept pretty quiet. Why has Wiggins not published his SRM files and showing us all what training he has been doing? Because he does not want you to know but instead comes up with some nonsense about core strength and the like.

bahzob wrote:

It's somewhat hard to believe he would get up to do sessions at 6 a.m. if they were of no use.

At that time he is likely in bed resting as pro cyclists do a lot of, and skipping the core exercises.

Murr X

pcb24

Can anyone tell me who you would assess and judge someone to have a weak core and also where the evidence is that core strengthening improves bike riding?