Training With Power - Evidence

Herbsman

Trev The Rev wrote:

Didn't some woman who used to row reasonably well take up cycling on the track - she proved to be faster than any woman BC had years to train up?

Romero?

Trev The Rev

Herbsman wrote:

Trev The Rev wrote:

Didn't some woman who used to row reasonably well take up cycling on the track - she proved to be faster than any woman BC had years to train up?

Romero?

Yes that was her.

Then BC used a 16 year old German kid to do the first lap in the Men's Team Sprint because they couldn't find anyone in their entire set up fast enough to replace some bloke who used to ride children's bikes for a living.

BC is only successful on the track because they have bugger all opposition.

bahzob

Trev The Rev wrote:

Herbsman wrote:

Trev The Rev wrote:

Didn't some woman who used to row reasonably well take up cycling on the track - she proved to be faster than any woman BC had years to train up?

Romero?

Yes that was her.

Then BC used a 16 year old German kid to do the first lap in the Men's Team Sprint because they couldn't find anyone in their entire set up fast enough to replace some bloke who used to ride children's bikes for a living.

BC is only successful on the track because they have bugger all opposition.

LOL every post you make is just a another spadeful of dirt deeper into the pit of your ignorance. I presume your cynical view also applies to how Wiggins made a step change in his performance and won the tour.

Having asked for evidence you then dismiss it out of pure prejudice.

Keep posting though mate, you are good for a laugh.

Trev The Rev

bahzib,

Wiggins messed up badly in 2010. Crashed in 2011. In 2012 he got it right and a lot of the opposition was retired or banned or racing clean for a change.

I note your personal attack which exposes your ignorance.

Trev

vorsprung

I just discovered the following feature of bikeradar forum

- click on "trev the rev"
- click on "add foe"
- click on "yes"

And all his posts disappear! It's quite handy!

Herbsman

Or you could just not look at them. Much easier.

amaferanga

It's tempting to make him a foe, but then you'd just get lots of people arguing with themselves in the many many threads he dominates with his drivel.

NewTTer

amaferanga wrote:

It's tempting to make him a foe, but then you'd just get lots of people arguing with themselves in the many many threads he dominates with his drivel.

+ 1 to this, its high time the mods here woke up and kicked him as has happened to him elsewhere

Herbsman

Do you realise that you don't have to look at, or reply to any of his threads or comments?

Unless he's actually done something offensive like spamming, bullying or discrimination, why should he be banned?

Tom Butcher

Re. the post further up the page - Wiggins didn't make a step change in performance really - he was 4th with Garmin in what was arguably a stronger year in terms of opposition. Of course 2012 was his best form - but it wasn't that much of a step up given he had several years aiming at grand tours.

Sky have had a great year but given they also have a huge budget and have not been great from day one I'd say using their form to prove the effectiveness of using power properly is a pretty ropey argument - not least because I really doubt that their approach is that revolutionary perhaps except when compared to some of the smaller less well funded traditional teams.

napoleond

Tom Butcher wrote:

Re. the post further up the page - Wiggins didn't make a step change in performance really - he was 4th with Garmin in what was arguably a stronger year in terms of opposition. Of course 2012 was his best form - but it wasn't that much of a step up given he had several years aiming at grand tours.

Sky have had a great year but given they also have a huge budget and have not been great from day one I'd say using their form to prove the effectiveness of using power properly is a pretty ropey argument - not least because I really doubt that their approach is that revolutionary perhaps except when compared to some of the smaller less well funded traditional teams.

He was third. And when you look at the credentials of those who beat him...

NewTTer

Herbsman wrote:

Do you realise that you don't have to look at, or reply to any of his threads or comments?

Unless he's actually done something offensive like spamming, bullying or discrimination, why should he be banned?

Which part of Amerferangas post above mine did you have trouble understanding?

Herbsman

NewTTer wrote:

Herbsman wrote:

Do you realise that you don't have to look at, or reply to any of his threads or comments?

Unless he's actually done something offensive like spamming, bullying or discrimination, why should he be banned?

Which part of Amerferangas post above mine did you have trouble understanding?

Do you answer all questions with a question?

Trev The Rev

Tom Butcher wrote:

Re. the post further up the page - Wiggins didn't make a step change in performance really - he was 4th with Garmin in what was arguably a stronger year in terms of opposition. Of course 2012 was his best form - but it wasn't that much of a step up given he had several years aiming at grand tours.

Sky have had a great year but given they also have a huge budget and have not been great from day one I'd say using their form to prove the effectiveness of using power properly is a pretty ropey argument - not least because I really doubt that their approach is that revolutionary perhaps except when compared to some of the smaller less well funded traditional teams.

It all went wrong in 2010 for Wiggins. Whatever the reason, and I understand Wiggins admits he did not put in the work and got a right rollicking form Brailsford at the end of 2010, the power meter data that year did not alert the coaching staff to Wiggins' poor preparation. Perhaps they were using different software then or were less expert at interpreting the data, or shock horror power meter data does not predict future performance like some would have us believe. Mind you I take everything Sky say about their training & methods with a very large pinch of electrolyte.

Are there any pro cycling teams which don't train with power meters?

Interestingly Tim Kerrison, Head of Performance Science, Sky, claims Wiggins increased the amount of climbing he did in training. Which sounds very old school to me.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... glory.html

Richa1181

Surely it comes down to the rider? A power meter will improve performance no more than a clock will, it's purely a monitoring tool with no input whatsoever. Doing the same thing repeatedly will always lead to the same outcome unless somebody says I need to make that number bigger, or smaller!

springtide9

I think most people know Power Meters don't make you go faster, they are just a measuring device for 'output'.
Training will also be very similar with and without a PM, it's just with a PM you are able to get more meaningful figures compared to say, average speed.

Trev The Rev wrote:

Are there any pro cycling teams which don't train with power meters?

You've hit the nail on the head there. Are there any pro teams that don't use power? And if not, why not?

---

this was also interesting.... (but off topic)
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... glory.html
Wiggins said: “I have trained constantly through the year, not the traditional way for cycling.

From what I've read elsewhere, it implied that there was no off season base miles over the winter, but a continuous training plan all year.

Herbsman

Cost.

Alex_Simmons/RST

springtide9 wrote:

From what I've read elsewhere, it implied that there was no off season base miles over the winter, but a continuous training plan all year.

Off season is a geography based concept.

springtide9

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

springtide9 wrote:

From what I've read elsewhere, it implied that there was no off season base miles over the winter, but a continuous training plan all year.

Off season is a geography based concept.

So is off-season more of a European concept, due mainly to the changing weather conditions throughout the year?

Alex_Simmons/RST

springtide9 wrote:

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

springtide9 wrote:

From what I've read elsewhere, it implied that there was no off season base miles over the winter, but a continuous training plan all year.

Off season is a geography based concept.

So is off-season more of a European concept, due mainly to the changing weather conditions throughout the year?

Mostly northern latitudes. There is no off-season here.

One of my Scandinavian clients sent me this pic today of what his current training roads look like:



Even so, he is managing a CTL>100 TSS/day in his "off-season".

Trev The Rev

springtide9 wrote:

I think most people know Power Meters don't make you go faster, they are just a measuring device for 'output'.
Training will also be very similar with and without a PM, it's just with a PM you are able to get more meaningful figures compared to say, average speed.

Trev The Rev wrote:

Are there any pro cycling teams which don't train with power meters?

You've hit the nail on the head there. Are there any pro teams that don't use power? And if not, why not?

The fact almost every pro uses a power meter can not be denied. I have used a power meter since 1998. Asking for evidence that they improve fitness over time compared to other methods does not mean I think they are not a good tool. It is how the tool is used that counts.

They are an expensive tool and I'm surprised the manufacturers or Dr Coggan (being both a scientist and leading expert on power meters & related software) have not published hard scientific evidence that training with a power meter using their methods does improve fitness over time better than other methods.

Herbsman

trev we've already been through this, ive already posted reasons why carrying out such a study would be too expensive, and contain too many uncontrollable variables

Trev The Rev

Herbsman wrote:

trev we've already been through this, ive already posted reasons why carrying out such a study would be too expensive, and contain too many uncontrollable variables

There is enough data out there and enough people coached using these methods. No reason why Dr Andrew Coggan & Hunter Allen can't put together a study.

The expense and the uncontrollable variables are a problem for those profiting from the unsubstantiated claims not me.

As training with a power meter is all about scientific measurement and methods, surely if anything should be backed up with proper scientific studies and proof, this should.

Herbsman

Unfortunately it's not that simple.