The war on Britains roads, 5th Dec BBC

rjsterry

roger merriman wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

So exactly how media-savvy are you both? If you were approached in an apparently genuine way to comment on a subject, about which you feel strongly, would you really tell them to get stuffed? I've had some family experience of being stitched up by a BBC journo who had already decided what the story was before the interview, so I think we could cut Gaz some slack. As I said, what makes you think the programme's portrayal of him is accurate, given how skewed the rest of it was

snips

While hindsight is a wonderful thing, being stitched up by the media is not a new story. In this case it was a dead cert.

I don't doubt it. I think Gaz didn't help himself, I just don't think he is responsible for the flaws of the programme.

It won't have been sold to him as 'The War on Britain's Roads', it'll have been pitched as 'we are making a documentary about cycling and road safety, something which is obviously very important to you. Would you like to take part?' So in he goes for an interview... Having been interviewed on camera for something entirely non-contraversial, it's very easy to see why politicians go for the 'don't answer the question, just repeat the pre-prepared line' routine.

Kieran_Burns

DonDaddyD wrote:

Kieran_Burns wrote:

So hang on.

by some people's definitions here, I'm a self-righteous arrogant pr*ck for daring to use a helmet cam?

Yeesh - talk about sub-grouping a sub-group.

I'm going to drive my Audi from now on.... Oh feck, wait. I'm f*cking sh*t driver for owning one of them as well aren't I?

I'll say it.

No you are not, but as far as I can tell you don't upload every single negative element of your commute and brand it as "Educating others on how to better road users".

Seriously, there is nothing wrong with using a camera when on your bike. Whether to review that enjoyable ride and/or for security reasons there is nothing wrong with it. However, a problem can occur when you decide what to do with that content and people need to be mindful of how said content or the constant stream of similar content is perceived by others*. In Gaz's/Traffic Droids case it was to be selfrighteous and all it did was create a perception of yet two milltant and indignant cyclist - fighting their own personal war on road users.

They demonised themselves. You, KB, haven't.

Thanks both - for the record: I simply wanted to highlight it is the individual not the camera that is 'at fault'

Some of us got the camera for different reasons. I specifically bought mine because of GOOD driving (no, really) and I wanted to record it to show the companies involved.

I did actually feel the power of the dark side a few times.... knowing I had a camera to record a piece of bad driving put the thought in my head that I could be a vigilante. That soon stopped, but I have (2 times) formally reported bad driving and used the footage as evidence (1 time: driver fined, other time: driver educated) but that is in all the years I have been cycling.

Channel is here (if'n you're interested) http://www.youtube.com/user/tr4veller

EKE_38BPM

Kieran_Burns wrote:

So hang on.

by some people's definitions here, I'm a self-righteous arrogant pr*ck for daring to use a helmet cam?

Yeesh - talk about sub-grouping a sub-group.

I'm going to drive my Audi from now on.... Oh feck, wait. I'm f*cking shoot driver for owning one of them as well aren't I?

1: You ride a bike
2: You wear a camera whilst riding a bike
3: You drive
4: You drive an Audi
5: You chase young ladies along bridle paths
6: You cycle with two bobbing seals stuffed down your lycra
7: You speak in a strange accent, you don't talk proppa england, like wot i do.

There really is no hope for you!

vermin

Il Principe wrote:

If we all had a quiet, polite word at the next set of lights etc, rather than screaming, swearing and banging, then the roads might be a nicer place...

I agree with your comments and this is precisely my tactic, most of the time (actually I usually roll my eyes and put it behind me, to be honest). The response to a polite comment at the lights is usually a torrent of verbal abuse, followed by a carefully timed side-swipe. :roll:

il_principe

I'm pretty sure I remember Gaz using the word 'War' in the film, this despite his admittance via twitter yesterday that he has had 'barley [sic] any incidents this year' He had the opp not to use inflammatory language.

mroli

Haven't seen it, but taxi driver last night had seen it. He was talking about it to me and said:
"there are these amazing courier cyclists, you should see it, they're incredible - so fast!" Was very admiring of them!

DonDaddyD

rjsterry wrote:

It won't have been sold to him as 'The War on Britain's Roads', it'll have been pitched as 'we are making a documentary about cycling and road safety, something which is obviously very important to you.

Hell of an assumption, do we have Gaz's confirmation on that?

Also did Bassjunkie feature in the show?

Kieran_Burns

DonDaddyD wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

It won't have been sold to him as 'The War on Britain's Roads', it'll have been pitched as 'we are making a documentary about cycling and road safety, something which is obviously very important to you.

Hell of an assumption, do we have Gaz's confirmation on that?

Also did Bassjunkie feature in the show?

Not really an assumption - don't we have that thread that the production company started on here asking for vids?

EKE_38BPM

Kieran_Burns wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

It won't have been sold to him as 'The War on Britain's Roads', it'll have been pitched as 'we are making a documentary about cycling and road safety, something which is obviously very important to you.

Hell of an assumption, do we have Gaz's confirmation on that?

Also did Bassjunkie feature in the show?

Not really an assumption - don't we have that thread that the production company started on here asking for vids?

Yeah. They were told to jog on in no uncertain terms.

gtvlusso

Wonder if Gaz or the 'Droid' will ever post on here again.....?

Actually, scrub that, I don't care.....

EKE_38BPM

gtvlusso wrote:

Wonder if Gaz or the 'Droid' will ever post on here again.....?

Actually, scrub that, I don't care.....

Has Droid ever posted on here?

gtvlusso

EKE_38BPM wrote:

gtvlusso wrote:

Wonder if Gaz or the 'Droid' will ever post on here again.....?

Actually, scrub that, I don't care.....

Has Droid ever posted on here?

May have a pseudonym.....Just sayin'. I don't think Gaz has many 'supporters' on here, judging by this thread - so, he will probably avoid. Like I say, I don't really care.

gbsahne001

gtvlusso wrote:

Kieran_Burns wrote:

I think I have been driving and cycling for longer than Gaz has been alive!

me too, 26 for the first & 35+ for second :oops:

As others have said, thought Gaz came across very arrogant & condescending but thought it was reasonably balanced between footage of bad driving / cycling. Watched it with my wife and the only serious comment she made was on the lines of, "you don't cycle like that do you?"

Also thought the ladies actions in getting Cemex to get their house in order was incredible both from her actions and also on the company for taking the 1 death / injury per year seriously enough to act.

vermin

gbsahne wrote:

gtvlusso wrote:

Kieran_Burns wrote:

I think I have been driving and cycling for longer than Gaz has been alive!

me too, 26 for the first & 35+ for second :oops:

As others have said, thought Gaz came across very arrogant & condescending but thought it was reasonably balanced between footage of bad driving / cycling. Watched it with my wife and the only serious comment she made was on the lines of, "you don't cycle like that do you?"

Also thought the ladies actions in getting Cemex to get their house in order was incredible both from her actions and also on the company for taking the 1 death / injury per year seriously enough to act.

Blimey, someone agrees with me.

roger_merriman

rjsterry wrote:

roger merriman wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

So exactly how media-savvy are you both? If you were approached in an apparently genuine way to comment on a subject, about which you feel strongly, would you really tell them to get stuffed? I've had some family experience of being stitched up by a BBC journo who had already decided what the story was before the interview, so I think we could cut Gaz some slack. As I said, what makes you think the programme's portrayal of him is accurate, given how skewed the rest of it was

snips

While hindsight is a wonderful thing, being stitched up by the media is not a new story. In this case it was a dead cert.

I don't doubt it. I think Gaz didn't help himself, I just don't think he is responsible for the flaws of the programme.

It won't have been sold to him as 'The War on Britain's Roads', it'll have been pitched as 'we are making a documentary about cycling and road safety, something which is obviously very important to you. Would you like to take part?' So in he goes for an interview... Having been interviewed on camera for something entirely non-contraversial, it's very easy to see why politicians go for the 'don't answer the question, just repeat the pre-prepared line' routine.

I'm sure one of the reasons they asked him is because they knew he would say yes, for all the reasons above.

But a lot of people would read between the lines.

We know the media like low brow (think of the children) pap, clearly Gaz and others didn't create this, but they equally should not be surprised at the outcome.

cycle video holders do not on the whole make them selfs look terribly good, bar Kierran B who just comes across as cross dressing weirdo which clearly is fine!

Origamist

DonDaddyD wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

It won't have been sold to him as 'The War on Britain's Roads', it'll have been pitched as 'we are making a documentary about cycling and road safety, something which is obviously very important to you.

Hell of an assumption, do we have Gaz's confirmation on that?

Also did Bassjunkie feature in the show?

The programme's content and slant changed a number of times (as is often the case as programmes develop) but it was originally couched in terms of road safety.

CiB

DonDaddyD wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

It won't have been sold to him as 'The War on Britain's Roads', it'll have been pitched as 'we are making a documentary about cycling and road safety, something which is obviously very important to you.

Hell of an assumption, do we have Gaz's confirmation on that?

Also did Bassjunkie feature in the show?

Gaz's Twitter Feed wrote:

I am disappointed in the edit. Could have mentioned the work I do with silly cyclists.

The magic is in the edit. That is not the person I am.

Apparently. I'd be amazed if he hadn't been stitched up big time. A TV programme with an agenda and the need for a fall guy? Gaz might be guilty of naivety maybe and possibly a degree of being up himself a bit too much for his own good, but I don't think he's as bad as he's being painted. He might do well to take a step back from all this and wonder if the criticism coming from all angles might have a kernel of truth in it though.

notsoblue

Il Principe wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

Why grin and bear it? Why not do something about it after having identified the infrastructure as being a problem?

Like what? I've been on a few protest rides, written to my MP on a number of occasions, written to the Mayor etc etc, it doesn't change the fact that the roads are busy and narrow.

It does though doesn't it. The worst stretches for filtering and close overtakes are some of the widest. Whenever the stretch between AB and CB gets busy its a nightmare of filtering (if you don't use the shared path). And when its quiet there is still occasionally some dodgy overtaking because cars can get up to some speed. Compare that to the stretch of CS8 from Vauxhall Bridge to Victoria Bridge and its a world of difference because appropriate infrastructure has been added. The problems discussed in this thread aren't all just down to the width of the roads.

Il Principe wrote:

If I shouted at every infringement on my commute I'd lose my voice every day.

Yeah, and I totally agree that being overly confrontational doesn't do anyone any favours, and that all road users would get on better if we were more tolerant. On a personal level, we should grin and bear it because there isn't really any other option if you want to preserve your sanity. But surely you must agree that we should at least try and progress the infrastructure that forces the conflict we see?

Il Principe wrote:

When we filter through traffic, many of us will be passing cars with inches to spare. If we didn't, we'd get nowhere faster than the ambient traffic.

Theres a huge difference between a bike passing a car that closely and the reverse...

vermin

notsoblue wrote:

Theres a huge difference between a bike passing a car that closely and the reverse...

Hmm, ever had your new car scratched by a rubbish cyclist trying to squeeze past? I imagine that would get your temper up.

gtvlusso

So,

Out of all this; What will change?

Will you change the way you cycle?
Will drivers change the way they drive?
Will someone sort out the basic infrastructure?
Will Gaz and the Droid stop being so arrogant and self-righteous?
Will it make people think twice about uploading footage to youtube or allowing footage to be used?

Nah - nothing will change, the programme did nothing and stood for nothing, this will all blow over and we will all do a bit of work today......eventually. :roll:

notsoblue

gtvlusso wrote:

And will you be stumping up the tax money to make the identified improvements? Yes, you probably will, because you ride a bike. Do you think Mr Cab driver will stump up the readies? No, because as far as he is concerned the roads are fine apart from to$$ers on bikes who should pay tax for their own road improvements!

Yeah, I hate how none of the tax I pay goes to roads.

rubertoe

gtvlusso wrote:

So,

Out of all this; What will change?

Will you change the way you cycle?
Will drivers change the way they drive?
Will someone sort out the basic infrastructure?
Will Gaz and the Droid stop being so arrogant and self-righteous?
Will it make people think twice about uploading footage to youtube or allowing footage to be used?

Nah - nothing will change, the programme did nothing and stood for nothing, this will all blow over and we will all do a bit of work today......eventually. :roll:

That is a ridiculous statement.

no-one works on a friday afternoon.

notsoblue

vermin wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

Theres a huge difference between a bike passing a car that closely and the reverse...

Hmm, ever had your new car scratched by a rubbish cyclist trying to squeeze past? I imagine that would get your temper up.

Definitely. But its unlikely to kill or seriously injury you is it?

For the record, filtering in a way that is likely to cause you to touch cars isn't something I approve of. On the occasion I have accidentally brushed passed a car I've usually stopped and apologised.

bails87

Vermin: There's a huge difference between a cyclist passing a stationary car, a car passing a moving cyclist and an actual collision.

vermin

bails87 wrote:

Vermin: There's a huge difference between a cyclist passing a stationary car, a car passing a moving cyclist and an actual collision.

Really? :?

But you see what I'm getting at.

bails87

vermin wrote:

bails87 wrote:

Vermin: There's a huge difference between a cyclist passing a stationary car, a car passing a moving cyclist and an actual collision.

Really? :?

But you see what I'm getting at.

But you seemed to equate "a cyclist passing a car" and "a cyclist colliding with a car".

I wouldn't want anyone to damage my car, I agree. I expect drivers to give a safe amount of space as shown in the highway code when I'm doing 20mph and he's doing 60mph. I don't see it as hypocritical for me to then pass stationary traffic at 10mph with less than the 'Rule 163' distance between us. As a driver I give as much space as possible to cyclists. I wouldn't then feel hard done by if a cyclist pottered past me closer than I'd passed him/her.

walkingbootweather

In the words of Frankie, while he was still making his way in the general direction of Hollywood

War! huh-yeah
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Uh-huh

That's all. As you were.

bails87

I thought you were going to say RELAX!

cornerblock

walkingbootweather wrote:

In the words of Frankie, while he was still making his way in the general direction of Hollywood

War! huh-yeah
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Uh-huh

That's all. As you were.

I think that's Edwin Starr, you want Two Tribes. As you weren't!

walkingbootweather

Cornerblock wrote:

I think that's Edwin Starr, you want Two Tribes. As you weren't!

Yeah well before my time wasn't it

Say it again y'all
War! huh good God
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me?

They don't make songs like that anymore now do they?