The war on Britains roads, 5th Dec BBC

rjsterry

gtvlusso wrote:

paul_mck wrote:

its not arrogance imo, its a bit of fun with some educational content. Seeing what other cyclists are capable of would make you think a little. I'm usually concentrating on what cars and lorries are doing, as opposed to other cyclists.

Some of them are proper WTF moments, that no-one would foresee. So there is a little education in there too

Lighten up ffs.

Being attentive is all part of being on the road anyway, no matter what the transport medium. It is not a 'new' concept.

[arrogance on my behalf]
Why would I, cycling/racing for ~25 years in numerous countries, anywhere between 100 and 250 miles per week, want to watch videos made by someone who has by admission been cycling for ~3 years @ ~30 miles per day in one city?
[/arrogance on my behalf]

Gaz seems to have allot more incidents than anyone else - as shown publically by his videos. What Gaz believes to be a silly move may be perceived by others to be wholly correct - yet, Gaz has already Judged and executed by posting the video, and thats not arrogance?! The power of the media!

So, we have to ask, as being educational seems to have been ruled out, what is the motive here? Is it massaging Gaz's ego? Getting one-up on the motorists by putting reg numbers with videos?

As KB has just shown - you can film, report it to the company/police all privately, why not do that?!

By making the reg numbers public it is only fuelling the fire - getting one over on the motorist. Again, this stinks of arrogance and a fire, aim, ready mentality.

Just possibly, you're not the target audience. Just because you know it all already, doesn't mean there aren't plenty of newbie cyclists in London to whom Gaz's videos might be, at least, of interest. Learning what you need to be attentive to on a bike (as opposed to in a car) is something that I would have thought is very valuable to someone just starting out.

gtvlusso

notsoblue wrote:

gtvlusso wrote:

I like what KB has done with his vid;

Kept it private, kept it to the point and informed the company involved - good way of dealing with it. The only public bit has been on this forum as an example.

IMHO; great stuff. Not that anyone cares about my opinion or has to listen to me....!

It is the whole making it public, calling it educational for some very tenuous justification and putting reg numbers up on t'internet that twists my melon.....It is not educational it is just getting one over on the motorist, nothing more.

A la Gaz and some of his buddies.

What would your reaction be to a video showing something like DDD's encounter with London Dynamo riders?

You mean as a car driver, I guess? **I am not fully au fait with the incident.

It is something that, if DDD had filmed from his car, he could go to Dynamo Cycle club and made a complaint to the club with the footage - privately. Or privately, go to the Police, should this be a route of inquiry.

My point is, this stuff does not need to be public. Admittedly, DDD has nothing to go on other than 'they were wearing Dynamo kit and on bikes' - but that's the beauty and essence of cycling, it is free and non-registered. If you want cycling and cyclists to have to be registered, then carry on filming and making car registrations for every minor issue public knowledge.......The more we fuel this, the more likely that we'll get burned. in the end, this film is just one example of an unrepresentative view of cycle commuting, will there be more?

Dynamo club has a reputation to lose, making the film immediately public gives them no time to react to the incident. If I was a club captain, I would be asking for the film and incident to be made private and deal with it internally - remind people that wearing club kit means you affect the reputation of the club in public. Hence, I do not wear club kit commuting or training.

But where does it all end? Do we all just film each other constantly and complain about each others abilities on the road? Make all incidents publicly viewable and make the accusation before understanding all of the facts?

Gaz has no idea in some of his videos of the circumstances in the vehicle. It is often difficult to tell what lead up to some of the super-non incidents he has - Gaz can selectively edit the video, miss out sections where he has done something to upset, whether he is aware of it or not, the motorist.

There really is no way for Gaz to be completely autonomous.

As I said earlier, I have been cycling away for over 20 years now and I have been quite happy until people started putting footage up on youtube with reg numbers. It does not represent the cycling that I know and love and it does not represent my view and experiences on the road.

I want more people on bikes, not less and these videos do nothing to encourage new riders - cheap sensationalism to satisfy the whim of a few people who's ego's outweigh there abilities and get a bit of one-upmanship on a few motorists.

gtvlusso

rjsterry wrote:

Just possibly, you're not the target audience. Just because you know it all already, doesn't mean there aren't plenty of newbie cyclists in London to whom Gaz's videos might be, at least, of interest. Learning what you need to be attentive to on a bike (as opposed to in a car) is something that I would have thought is very valuable to someone just starting out.

Absolutely - I am not the target audience. But I am an active participant in cycling and my opinion is still very valid. We all started somewhere, back in the 'late 70's and 80's there was no videos - Just the cycle test thing at Primary school - I did mine on a Raleigh Commando! From my POV, if I had not ridden a bike on the road for many years and someone suggested some of these youtube videos for 'educational purposes' - I would buy a car, allot of it would just put me off.
And that's it really, it does not represent anything near what actually happens or is fair on anyone one the road. It is just 1 person POV and his POV is from a cyclist who can influence thousands by social media. A close pass in his POV may be very different to a close pass from my POV.....

paul_mck

Coronation Street has no interest for me, so I dont watch it. Its that simple!

rick_chasey

You agree to go on a program like this, you expect to get some sh!t. Especially on the internet.

Naive to think otherwise.

I remember speaking to someone who works on the apprentice and I asked them how they find these morons. She said quite honestly that it's pretty self selective. Only morons apply to be on it.

I imagine the TV producers for this programme thought the same. The kind of guy who makes TV that gets people talking is the kind of guy who a) films it and b) is happy for it to all be on TV with supporting interviews.

gtvlusso

paul_mck wrote:

Coronation Street has no interest for me, so I dont watch it. Its that simple!

Anything else to say? Is that your entire response? Jeez man, Any counter arguments or is that really it? If the videos are out there and the public perception affects me as a cyclist, I am involved by default without my consent!

So, I should just stop cycling then, right? :shock:

How about stopping making publicly accessible videos? That's far easier and has worked fine for the last 20 odd years....

DonDaddyD

Rick Chasey wrote:

You agree to go on a program like this, you expect to get some sh!t. Especially on the internet.

Naive to think otherwise.

I remember speaking to someone who works on the apprentice and I asked them how they find these morons. She said quite honestly that it's pretty self selective. Only morons apply to be on it.

I imagine the TV producers for this programme thought the same. The kind of guy who makes TV that gets people talking is the kind of guy who a) films it and b) is happy for it to all be on TV with supporting interviews.

So are you calling CycleGaz a moron?

paul_mck

gtvlusso wrote:

paul_mck wrote:

Coronation Street has no interest for me, so I dont watch it. Its that simple!

Anything else to say? Is that your entire response? Jeez man, Any counter arguments or is that really it? If the videos are out there and the public perception affects me as a cyclist, I am involved by default without my consent!

So, I should just stop cycling then, right? :shock:

How about stopping making publicly accessible videos? That's far easier and has worked fine for the last 20 odd years....

nothing needs to be said, some people like them (the silly cyclist videos). You seem to have some sort of chip on your shoulder and see them as arrogance. A lot of people see them as entertainment. Educational is a bit strong but it might reinforce a few concepts such as filtering up the inside of buses etc.

You dont like them, fair enough, dont watch them. That was my point.

rjsterry

Rick Chasey wrote:

You agree to go on a program like this, you expect to get some sh!t. Especially on the internet.

Naive to think otherwise.

I remember speaking to someone who works on the apprentice and I asked them how they find these morons. She said quite honestly that it's pretty self selective. Only morons apply to be on it.

I imagine the TV producers for this programme thought the same. The kind of guy who makes TV that gets people talking is the kind of guy who a) films it and b) is happy for it to all be on TV with supporting interviews.

I don't think Gaz has actively complained. A journalist thought that the programme was bound to spark some 'debate', so went looking for some lowest common denominator tweetrage, found it, then contacted Gaz to see what he thought. IIRC, he just said that he was disappointed by the edit of the programme (well who wouldn't be?) and that the angry comments were just par for the course.

gtvlusso

paul_mck wrote:

gtvlusso wrote:

paul_mck wrote:

Coronation Street has no interest for me, so I dont watch it. Its that simple!

Anything else to say? Is that your entire response? Jeez man, Any counter arguments or is that really it? If the videos are out there and the public perception affects me as a cyclist, I am involved by default without my consent!

So, I should just stop cycling then, right? :shock:

How about stopping making publicly accessible videos? That's far easier and has worked fine for the last 20 odd years....

nothing needs to be said, some people like them (the silly cyclist videos). You seem to have some sort of chip on your shoulder and see them as arrogance. A lot of people see them as entertainment. Educational is a bit strong but it might reinforce a few concepts such as filtering up the inside of buses etc.

You dont like them, fair enough, dont watch them. That was my point.

Fair enough, yes, I do see it as arrogance....I also see it as ignorant.

I don't watch on t'internet. However, when it is on prime time TV.....I am kinda implicated by definition, interest in cycling and sofa laziness.

Kieran_Burns

DonDaddyD wrote:

So are you calling CycleGaz a moron?

Origamist

Good piece here:

Lucas Brunelle, the King of New York, and the War on Britain’s Roads

http://buffalobillbikeblog.wordpress.co ... ins-roads/

unclejimbo1983

I just contacted the ghost of Tommy Godwin and he said that nobody who started riding after 1930, or who rode less than 75,065 miles a year had a right to put themselves forward as a representative of our sport. So I guess all of our opinions are equally invalid.

mybreakfastconsisted

The producer speeks her branes:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/blogaboutthe ... ains-Roads

rjsterry

So no real justification for the alleycat footage, and that cliché cop out "we let the viewers make their own mind up". 3/10

mybreakfastconsisted

The other attempts to even up the tally were quite laughable. A taxi driver unburdened a series of anecdotes, telling us that ‘many cyclists take diabolical liberties’, before inviting us to ‘look at this wally’ – a wally unfortunately cycling quite legally on a marked shared use pavement.

Not content with this, the taxi driver is then shown pointing out a cyclist going down a street where, he alleges, cyclists aren’t allowed to cycle.

The only trouble is… this isn’t true at all.



The distinctive Smith & Sons umbrella shop at the corner of New Oxford Street and Shaftesbury Avenue in Bloomsbury, visible behind the taxi driver’s wagging finger. It’s perfectly legal to cycle south onto Shaftesbury Avenue. The taxi driver is talking out his arse.

http://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.co ... tatistics/

notsoblue

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

http://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.com/2012/12/12/that-war-on-britains-roads-the-statistics/

This is a brilliant article.

mybreakfastconsisted

They might as well have had a cabbie drive around London pointing at black people breaking the law by walking on the cracks in the pavement.

mybreakfastconsisted

BBC's War on Britain's Roads: even more fake than we feared
Footage passed off as genuine in cycling documentary was choreographed by a filmmaker with paid participants, it emerges

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/b ... roads-fake

walkingbootweather

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

They might as well have had a cabbie drive around London pointing at black people breaking the law by walking on the cracks in the pavement.

.

I think you'll find he was trained by a Police Driver. Constable Savage

Kieran_Burns

First time on the bike for a week. I can tell you something: people DEFINITELY notice the camera much more now.

No comments but some VERY clear double takes and stares (and one woman pointing!)

gtvlusso

Kieran_Burns wrote:

First time on the bike for a week. I can tell you something: people DEFINITELY notice the camera much more now.

No comments but some VERY clear double takes and stares (and one woman pointing!)

That was the baby seals fella!

Kieran_Burns

gtvlusso wrote:

Kieran_Burns wrote:

First time on the bike for a week. I can tell you something: people DEFINITELY notice the camera much more now.

No comments but some VERY clear double takes and stares (and one woman pointing!)

That was the baby seals fella!

She pointed at my head not my arse

EKE_38BPM

Kieran_Burns wrote:

gtvlusso wrote:

Kieran_Burns wrote:

First time on the bike for a week. I can tell you something: people DEFINITELY notice the camera much more now.

No comments but some VERY clear double takes and stares (and one woman pointing!)

That was the baby seals fella!

She pointed at my head not my ars*

gtvlusso

^ Perfect end to this thread.....