The war on Britains roads, 5th Dec BBC

Green Brompton

I watched it in parts as I had people over... I thought it wasn't too bad, to be fair they did separate the loons, and didn't make out all cyclists to be nutters...

From the parts I saw, the best cyclists were the groups of non featured cyclists riding along with the others, particularly where one lone cyclist went through a red light, whilst a bunch of others were sat stationary waiting at the lights not jumping them... Other cyclists throughout the clips were just riding along minding their own business, not looking for a situation to arise. We left it not really understanding the point of the whole film in its entirety, but I didn't come away thinking it made cyclists as a whole look that bad... You always get the boy racers of the world, as well as the road ragers...

I might have to watch it properly as I don't want to get shot down for a half hearted, half baked, opinion. 8)

vermin

Good god, some people on here really need to wake up.

"there was no analysis or detail, no 'cars: give cyclists space, cyclists: don't RLJ' advice. Just video clips." The message was abundantly clear in the clips and the editing/story-telling. Do you need it spelt out in massive flashing red capital letters across the screen for an hour?

"It basically said "don't cycle as it's incredibly dangerous"". Did it? The makers had access to goodness knows how many years of video clips and stories, yet showed just a handful of dangerous/scary moments, some of which weren't even scary. The other half's comment was, it's not that bad really is it? So long as you are sensible and aware.

For any drivers watching, unless they were twunts already, it gave prime-time exposure to how it feels to be a cyclist on London's roads.

Open your eyes, folks, and get a sense of proportion.

vermin

Il Principe wrote:

vermin wrote:

Blacktemplar wrote:

pete54 wrote:

Utter c**p. Was this BBC1 or had someone re-tuned my telly to Channel 5?

^This. Dreadful programme.

I only watched bits of it while flicking back & forward during the ads on another channel.

Which is why you thought it was bad. Had you watched it through, you would have seen that it was a well structured, balanced, thought provoking documentary. Instead, you dismissed it as a whole work and totally missed the point. Well done.

Wait, are you serious? It was a terrible programme. Dishonest and completely unhelpful (aside from Cynthia Barlow's contribution).

Yes I'm serious. I just hope the viewing figures were high.

EKE_38BPM

gtvlusso wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

gtvlusso wrote:

Question: Will any of you adjust your riding style or take anything from the programme, learn anything - maybe even as extreme as stopping filming?

If I see Traffic Droid near me I will get as far away from his as quickly as possible for fear of being judged!

I used a helmet cam for a short period of time but stopped as I found myself getting all vigilante-ish. It changed the way I felt when I rode, I was almost looking for trouble, I lost my zen.
When I stopped using the camera, I got it back.

Interesting. Did you feel morally obliged to 'make it safer' for everyone else, compelled, if you will?

What would normally make me tut under my breath actually prompted action.
Car in ASL, have a word with the driver.
Driver on the phone, have a word with the driver.
RLJ, have a word with the cyclist when I overtake.

I'm not the Police so I shouldn't try to police the roads.

gtvlusso

**Wondering what the crowd on Cyclechat are saying?

probably congratulating each other on a great job, well done. I just watched a few clips on youtube, this ain't gonna encourage anyone else to get on a bike.....For me, thats where it fails wholly.

rjsterry

vermin wrote:

Blacktemplar wrote:

pete54 wrote:

Utter c**p. Was this BBC1 or had someone re-tuned my telly to Channel 5?

^This. Dreadful programme.

I only watched bits of it while flicking back & forward during the ads on another channel.

Which is why you thought it was bad. Had you watched it through, you would have seen that it was a well structured, balanced, thought provoking documentary. Instead, you dismissed it as a whole work and totally missed the point. Well done.

But Cyclegaz did come across as a bit of a twunt.

Watched the last 2/3rds and while it did massively exaggerate the level of incidents, which was always going to be the problem as they had decided that there was a WAR and needed to demonstrate that to be the case, what they did cover seemed to be reasonably balanced.

Some of the more pro-active headcam-ers came across as rather misguided, albeit coming from genuine motivations. Not sure what the point was of asking the lorry driver, etc. to comment on the thugs who got out and punched the chap in East London. What else were they going to say about blatantly criminal behaviour?

What did hack me off was the constant flitting about as if we all have 30-second attention spans, so the genuinely interesting story of the mother who bought shares in RMC, went to their AGM and persuaded them to introduce measures, which demonstrably reduced the number of incidents for that company, was chopped up into 6 or 7 segments to no obvious benefit. Also what were the random headshots with no dialogue for?

willy b

vermin wrote:

Good god, some people on here really need to wake up.

"there was no analysis or detail, no 'cars: give cyclists space, cyclists: don't RLJ' advice. Just video clips." The message was abundantly clear in the clips and the editing/story-telling. Do you need it spelt out in massive flashing red capital letters across the screen for an hour?

"It basically said "don't cycle as it's incredibly dangerous"". Did it? The makers had access to goodness knows how many years of video clips and stories, yet showed just a handful of dangerous/scary moments, some of which weren't even scary. The other half's comment was, it's not that bad really is it? So long as you are sensible and aware.

For any drivers watching, unless they were twunts already, it gave prime-time exposure to how it feels to be a cyclist on London's roads.

Open your eyes, folks, and get a sense of proportion.

Well said 8)

Kieran_Burns

EKE_38BPM wrote:

gtvlusso wrote:

Question: Will any of you adjust your riding style or take anything from the programme, learn anything - maybe even as extreme as stopping filming?

If I see Traffic Droid near me I will get as far away from his as quickly as possible for fear of being judged!

I used a helmet cam for a short period of time but stopped as I found myself getting all vigilante-ish. It changed the way I felt when I rode, I was almost looking for trouble, I lost my zen.
When I stopped using the camera, I got it back.

I have my camera in use. I'm still zen

but then my whole premise for the camera is based on looking for good stuff, the bad things are not the focus. I just happen to catch some.

I wonder if this is why my views are so low

rjsterry

vermin wrote:

Good god, some people on here really need to wake up.

"there was no analysis or detail, no 'cars: give cyclists space, cyclists: don't RLJ' advice. Just video clips." The message was abundantly clear in the clips and the editing/story-telling. Do you need it spelt out in massive flashing red capital letters across the screen for an hour?

"It basically said "don't cycle as it's incredibly dangerous"". Did it? The makers had access to goodness knows how many years of video clips and stories, yet showed just a handful of dangerous/scary moments, some of which weren't even scary. The other half's comment was, it's not that bad really is it? So long as you are sensible and aware.

For any drivers watching, unless they were twunts already, it gave prime-time exposure to how it feels to be a cyclist on London's roads.

Open your eyes, folks, and get a sense of proportion.

What the above doesn't address is that the programme was fundamentally flawed from its inception: there is no war, so trying to cobble together enough clips to prove that there is, is always going to be dishonest. I watched it with Mrs RJS, and she was very worried by what she saw. I had to repeatedly explain that cycling in London is just not like that 95% of the time.

sneill

I am going to watch this at lunch, I'm keeping an open mind to it but I've heard the documentary is complete sensationalism. Is it correct that footage of Lucas Brunelle was used to convey an average commute in London?

Green Brompton

We should get helmet cams and show people what our commute is really about - getting from A-B quicker than most other modes of transport, comfortably and enjoyably. Unfortunately nobody is likely to air/watch a 30 minute, boring, action free, commute.

I try to smile / communicate politely with people (mopeds / van drivers) when we're at lights etc, let them know which way I'm going etc, or check they're not going to turn. Having a go at someone is not going to help a situation, communicating with them does. I find that when I do, van drivers, mopeds etc give you that little extra space and patience. I'm not the perfect cyclist, and you can't control every scenario, but I just try to be as aware as possible, and think about any potential hazards that might come up.

TheStone

Green Brompton wrote:

We should get helmet cams and show people what our commute is really about - getting from A-B quicker than most other modes of transport, comfortably and enjoyably. Unfortunately nobody is likely to air/watch a 30 minute, boring, action free, commute.

If we could add in some realtime Strava segment stats, it can't be any worse than watching people play poker?

Paul E

I actively avoided it, I know it will wind me up watching it, so I'm out.

EKE_38BPM

Paul E wrote:

I actively avoided it, I know it will wind me up watching it, so I'm out.

You are not allowed to say "I'm out" without posting a picture of Duncan Bannatyne.

I'll post one for you to keep the world in balance:

Paul E

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Paul E wrote:

I actively avoided it, I know it will wind me up watching it, so I'm out.

You are not allowed to say "I'm out" without posting a picture of Duncan Bannatyne.

I'll post one for you to keep the world in balance:

I stand corrected and a mental note has been made ;-)

msmancunia

vermin wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

vermin wrote:

Blacktemplar wrote:

pete54 wrote:

Utter c**p. Was this BBC1 or had someone re-tuned my telly to Channel 5?

^This. Dreadful programme.

I only watched bits of it while flicking back & forward during the ads on another channel.

Which is why you thought it was bad. Had you watched it through, you would have seen that it was a well structured, balanced, thought provoking documentary. Instead, you dismissed it as a whole work and totally missed the point. Well done.

Wait, are you serious? It was a terrible programme. Dishonest and completely unhelpful (aside from Cynthia Barlow's contribution).

Yes I'm serious. I just hope the viewing figures were high.

According to our overnights, had viewing figures of 3.5m, with 15.1% of programme share.

spen666

noodles71 wrote:

unixnerd wrote:

It wasn't nearly as sensationalist as I thought it would be.

Agreed. I thought it was pretty good and I'm glad the BBC had it made. Even a few clips from Aberdeen!

I can't believe Cemex were killing a cyclist a year! That's just plain shocking. How many other companies are doing the same? Lot of work to do educating them in same way.

Hats off to Cynthia Barlow. If everyone had a mum like her I'm sure this country would be the best place to live in the world.

If Cemex haven't killed anyone since she had the modifications fitted to the fleet of their trucks then it makes it a no brainer.... Every truck within the London Low Emission Zone driving outside the hours of 21:00 to 6:00 should have all these measures fitted by law.


It would be another life every year saved at a bare minimum.

So its ok to drive a vehicle that is dangerous between 21:00 and 06:00? Are you suggesting people shouldn't cycle between those hours or that they are somewhat less deserving of protection?

If these devices work, then they should be required 24/7 everywhere, not just in limited times/ geographical locations

Origamist

I thought it was better than "Heir Hunters", but not nearly as good as "Cheaters".

Origamist

Double post

CiB

Green Brompton wrote:

We should get helmet cams and show people what our commute is really about - getting from A-B quicker than most other modes of transport, comfortably and enjoyably. Unfortunately nobody is likely to air/watch a 30 minute, boring, action free, commute.

I've though that too. Imagine:

Minutes 0 - 3: Getting going, no traffic, country lane - telegraph pole = first mile. Gentle breathing.

Minutes 3 - 5: First village, past church, nice drop where I can open my legs and show my class [(c) Colemanballs] and get the obligatory 30mph out of the way. Still no cars. Slight whistle or hum tune in head from Chris Evans Breakfast Show when I was leaving.

5 - 20: Country lanes. Village, junction, country lanes...

22: T to main road turn right. Potential action... maybe not, not much traffic, slide out, hit 30 again on downhill and keep pace up to edge of first town.

29-35: Filter past traffic, most of which slides over to the left to let me through. Repeated acknowledgements from me. Hit roundabout, slide round at first exit, continue filtering as before.

38:. DANGER!!!!! Centre reservation single file primary... oh no-one's trying to pass, just waiting patiently. No fight today then, like every other day except one last summer, when I had to call someone a t!t.

41: Country lanes, occasional horse, dog walker, tractor, car coming other way.

60: Hit ring road, push hard for last mile, signal right for roundabout, traffic melts to let me across, quick wave of thanks, onto office.

68: Arrive. No hassle, no danger, nothing worth putting on Youtube or ranting about. Same as most days, with variations on the route.

I reckon that's most people's commute; it just happens, no issues, no danger, no need to gesticulate wildly at drivers. Ride to work, arrive at work, get off bike. I can imagine the viewing figures for something that tedious though., lower than an OU repeat.

FYI Today this morning on R4 had a brief discussion between Jill Etherington and Michael Hutchinson (CW columnist and decent rider). Nothing much came out of it except for both sides agreeing that it's idiots who cause problems, and that co-operation is the answer. R4, Today today, from about 8:45 for 4 minutes.

whitebait01

Not sure how I feel about it, there were a couple of genuine helmet cam 'christ, that was dodgy' moments (magnatom almost under a lorry, the dickhead overtaking gaz on the bridge, cutting him up then getting out and going mental etc).

However Gaz's incident with the taxi near Stockwell, most of that bloody traffic droid's stuff and a few others were just crap and made cyclists look like dimwits spoiling for a fight.

I used a helmet cam for a bit when I first started commuting and in all that time recorded four incidents of note. I didn't go out of my way to antagonise and pretty much just wore the camera as insurance, just in case something bad did happen. I don't bother any more and I don't regret stopping.

Worst thing is, I know my mum watched the programme and I know she'll be constantly worrying that I'll be under the wheels of a lorry. There's no way I can convince her that those incidents are a rarity, cycling around London is an absolute joy and by far the most fun and efficient way for me to get to work and it keeps me fit and allow me to eat lots of cake without becoming a fatty.

Edited to say:

I think I stopped having incidents worthy of reporting as my ability and awareness on the bike increased. Nowhere near perfect of course, but I learnt when to be overly cautious and distance myself from dodgy situations (Tooting Bec to Tooting Broadway sped this process up, for sure).

Also, the only cycle cam videos worth watching (and learning from!) are Origamist's.

https://www.youtube.com/user/mrorigamist

No shouting or ranting. Just videos of situations highlighting hazards and dangers (also, bloody fast!).

notsoblue

rjsterry wrote:

Not sure what the point was of asking the lorry driver, etc. to comment on the thugs who got out and punched the chap in East London. What else were they going to say about blatantly criminal behaviour?

This really irritated me. The lorry driver's comments about the cyclists he saw while driving about were pretty ridiculous. The one guy wearing normal clothes who was minding his own business riding eastbound to the lights at Parliament Square was accused of being 'utterly oblivious' to the wheeled death being driven only meters behind him. I think its perfectly reasonable on a road like that, going at that speed, to not have to be constantly checking over your shoulder for danger.

il_principe

CiB wrote:

Green Brompton wrote:

We should get helmet cams and show people what our commute is really about - getting from A-B quicker than most other modes of transport, comfortably and enjoyably. Unfortunately nobody is likely to air/watch a 30 minute, boring, action free, commute.

It'd be longer than that, for balance you'd have to show the PT version as well. For me that'd mean 25 mins on the bike, or anywhere between 1:15 and 2 hours on the bus... riveting stuff.

mrjamesc

Highlights for me..

I thought what the lady did with Cmex was brilliant! Lets hope she is successful spreading the word!

The taxi driver was a div! If youre close enough to touch the vehicle youre too close! He just could see it..

The dude with the website, in principle I like his idea, but I thought he was a little aggressive at times! (can anyone remember his website?)

Those guys racing through the streets and traffic for kicks want shooting! Theyre the type of guys that make cyclists have a bad name!

I'm glad the guy that punched that guy got caught!

mrjamesc

Oh and a big disappointment that strict liability wasnt mentioned

iPete

Green Brompton wrote:

We should get helmet cams and show people what our commute is really about - getting from A-B quicker than most other modes of transport, comfortably and enjoyably. Unfortunately nobody is likely to air/watch a 30 minute, boring, action free, commute.

I've done a few of these but tried to remove the tedium.

Winter, lots of traffic, sped up video is not as scary as it looks.
http://vimeo.com/17864192
Spring commute
https://vimeo.com/22261964

If I can be arsed I might dust off the gopro and splice together 20+ rides & get in lots of CS8 'action'.

p.s. am hungover as fark, can I be arsed to watch this?

mrjamesc

jds_1981 wrote:

Not impressed by the police man suggesting a bell or whistle to alert drivers to presence rather than hitting the car. A whistle may work but I don't imagine it easy to cycle along at speed with a whistle in mouth. A bell would be useless.

Very true, I dont have a bell as its pointless for pedestrians and cars, when an excuse me or HELLO or Oi fails and Im getting squeezed by a vehicle, the vehicle will be getting a slap! Its a last resort but always works!

vermin

iPete wrote:

If I can be arsed I might dust off the gopro and splice together 20+ rides & get in lots of CS8 'action'.

I want to see some proper SCR action on youtube, not this boring 'near-miss' stuff. Bring it on.

whitebait01

vermin wrote:

iPete wrote:

If I can be arsed I might dust off the gopro and splice together 20+ rides & get in lots of CS8 'action'.

I want to see some proper SCR action on youtube, not this boring 'near-miss' stuff. Bring it on.

+1 to this!

il_principe

In other news, yet another cyclist was killed in London this morning. Collision invloved an HGV, again:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20624639

RIP.