custom chainring for reduced chain drop?

bluechair84

I've been thinking about this xx1 gear. They reckon that their single ring is able to keep the chain on without the need for a guide. Part of this reason is the teeth are alternatly large to coincide with the chain links. But I wondered if it was also because of the lack of shifting ramps.
Now, I sometimes suffer from a dropped chain on my 2x9 trail bike, it's not too bad. I don't use the granny all that much - I'd rather put a larger spread cassette on the back for spinning. Is anyone running a custom single ring that isn't as highly machined as the rings on a triple and does it hold onto the chain better? When this transmission if out of life, I'm thinking of going 1x9/10 without a guide.

Chunkers1980

Your granny most prob has larger teeth that are not machined in anyway as that only goes up.

Yes, of course, you want a non ramped ring on a 1x setup for sure, it'll hold the chain much better.

bluechair84

Cool, that's what I hoped. TBH, I'm running a BETD ring on the DH bike, but with a guide. It holds fine whilst riding but pretty often, if I lay the bike down the chain moves and gets snagged in the guide meaning I have to dismantle the thing to get the flippin' chain back. The tollerances are set up as tight as they can be... not sure what the frig it's doing. I'm hoping Clutch makes it to 9 speed and I'll try clutch and no guide on the DH bike.

nicklouse

not really it will still bounce off.

maybe some of these new style rear mechs that say they controll the chain better may help but i dont see that they will much.

nicklouse

bluechair84 wrote:

Cool, that's what I hoped. TBH, I'm running a BETD ring on the DH bike, but with a guide. It holds fine whilst riding but pretty often, if I lay the bike down the chain moves and gets snagged in the guide meaning I have to dismantle the thing to get the flippin' chain back. The tollerances are set up as tight as they can be... not sure what the frig it's doing. I'm hoping Clutch makes it to 9 speed and I'll try clutch and no guide on the DH bike.

sounds like something is not set up right there.

bennett_346

bluechair84 wrote:

I'm hoping Clutch makes it to 9 speed and I'll try clutch and no guide on the DH bike.

Can't see that happening as clutch mechs are one of the main pull factors the manufacturers use to get people onto 10 speed.

ride_whenever

Any proper single speed/track chainring generally won't drop the chain.

On my road bike I run a 1*10 setup and never lose the chain since I switched to a surly stainless steel ring with no shifting ramps or gates.

bluechair84

ride_whenever wrote:

Any proper single speed/track chainring generally won't drop the chain.

On my road bike I run a 1*10 setup and never lose the chain since I switched to a surly stainless steel ring with no shifting ramps or gates.

Did it make as much difference as clutch (if you have that on your mech)?

bluechair84

nicklouse wrote:

bluechair84 wrote:

Cool, that's what I hoped. TBH, I'm running a BETD ring on the DH bike, but with a guide. It holds fine whilst riding but pretty often, if I lay the bike down the chain moves and gets snagged in the guide meaning I have to dismantle the thing to get the flippin' chain back. The tollerances are set up as tight as they can be... not sure what the frig it's doing. I'm hoping Clutch makes it to 9 speed and I'll try clutch and no guide on the DH bike.

sounds like something is not set up right there.

Without wanting to start a workshop thread; the chain only comes off when I'm like... eating a mars bar or drinking tea. Never whilst riding. And it is impossible to put back on again without taking off part of the guide and re-threading the chain - so there's no large gaps between the pully and guide where it can shift. I can't for the life of me work out how it's doing it... As it's not happening whilst riding though, I'm fine with it. I'll start a workshop thread if I inexplicably loose my rag with it though.

Northwind

The clutch mechs make a big difference- I'm running just a top guide and the clutch mech on the Ragley, wouldn't have got away with that with a standard mech. It'll still drop the chain occasionally when doing non-ridey things... Mostly when taking the bike out of the car. Which is irritating sometimes but not worth the weight and hassle and drag of a full chainguide.

lawman

I'm running a xtr clutch mech and an LG1+ guide and a dedicated single speed E-13 guide ring on the HD, and it is stupidly, eerily quiet now and whilst I never lost a chain with a normal mech, there is no way I can see it happening now. I run the same chainring on the 456c, but with a top guide only and a normal mech. I have lost the chain once. It will be getting a clutch mech soon as it sounds like a bag of bolts, so I will see if it works without the guide, as tbh I reckon the LG1 is over kill for the HD now.

If shimano make a proper 1x10/11 groupset with similar capabilities to XX1, I will definitely be buying, the extra range of the cassette of the chain retention really appeals to me, but I much prefer the feel of shimano kit

bluechair84

With so many people happy with their 1x9/10 and custom rings improving on chain retention, hopefully someone will make chainrings with alternating tooth sizes too.

ricardo_smooth

the clutch rear makes a world of difference on the Nomad.

bluechair84

ricardo_smooth wrote:

the clutch rear makes a world of difference on the Nomad.

Yeah, everyone I come across that uses one thinks so. I'll move on up to 10speed and clutch when the current lot is smooth as a baby's arse. Will I be seeing the Nomadc on Sunday?

lawman

http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/11/16/cha ... more-51987

Interesting read!!

bluechair84

wako29 wrote:

little known fact. The Shimano 10sp pull ratio is REALLY close to the SRAM 9sp pull ratio. Want 9sp with Shadow Plus? Get a 9sp SRAM shifter and a 10sp Shimano rear D. Still, you have to admire his ingenuity

Aweosme bit of home engineering... but this is even more interesting

YeehaaMcgee

bluechair84 wrote:

Now, I sometimes suffer from a dropped chain on my 2x9 trail bike

Get a bashguard and a stinger, fit them (properly), and it will never happen again.

Northwind

bluechair84 wrote:

wako29 wrote:

little known fact. The Shimano 10sp pull ratio is REALLY close to the SRAM 9sp pull ratio. Want 9sp with Shadow Plus? Get a 9sp SRAM shifter and a 10sp Shimano rear D. Still, you have to admire his ingenuity

Aweosme bit of home engineering... but this is even more interesting

"Really close" =/ the same. Some folks have tried it and reckon it works well enough, but the reality is you'll get a handful of gears to work right, and all the rest work as well as any other misadjusted drivetrain.

If you want to use just a few gears though, it does the job, so could be a good option for downhill bikes etc.

bluechair84

Crud. I'd never heard of the Shim/sram 10/9 mix before. I'll probably be shuffled along the 1x10 road as things wear out and go for a custom ring - at least on the trail bike. I'll have a chainguide on the DH bike for a long time yet.

lawman

For DH bikes there is no reason, no matter how good chain retention a special chainring can offer. It's on "enduro", AM or trail bikes that the benefits of increased retention without the drag of a full chainguide are most noticeable.

Northwind

lawman wrote:

For DH bikes there is no reason, no matter how good chain retention a special chainring can offer

Better chain retention is always worthwhile... On a DH bike, you could either use it to run a less solid (and therefore lighter, or less draggy) chainguide, or you could just use it as belt-and-braces. You still see plenty of people dropping or jamming chains on DH bikes, mostly I reckon because they've cut things a bit too fine on their choice of device.

And after all the only reason not to have the new-style chainrings is the ZOMFGprice, and the only reason not to use a clutch mech is the very small weight penalty.

ricardo_smooth

bluechair84 wrote:

Will I be seeing the Nomadc on Sunday?

No mate, too epic for me at present. Fitness is dog poo!

YeehaaMcgee

Another reason not to use a clutch mech... It can interfere with chaingrowth on some full suss bikes.

ricardo_smooth

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

Another reason not to use a clutch mech... It can interfere with chaingrowth on some full suss bikes.

The clutch still moves before the chain breaks 99% of the time!

YeehaaMcgee

it's that 1% (probably not even that often, really) that's the issue though!

ricardo_smooth

I can see you're a glass 3/4 empty kind of bloke VPP suffers horrendous chain growth compared to most suspension platforms and I've not had a problem with mine in the 10 months of riding so far.

I'm happy to take my chances with those odds

Chunkers1980

Rubbish odds. Stan James would not be happy.

ricardo_smooth

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Rubbish odds. Stan James would not be happy.

Victor Chandler says he gives it the thumbs up!

YeehaaMcgee

ricardo_smooth wrote:

I can see you're a glass 3/4 empty kind of bloke VPP suffers horrendous chain growth compared to most suspension platforms and I've not had a problem with mine in the 10 months of riding so far.

I'm happy to take my chances with those odds

please for the love of god stop talking about suspension. Every time such crap is written, the ghost of savville grabs an angel and defiles it.

bennett_346

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

ricardo_smooth wrote:

I can see you're a glass 3/4 empty kind of bloke VPP suffers horrendous chain growth compared to most suspension platforms and I've not had a problem with mine in the 10 months of riding so far.

I'm happy to take my chances with those odds

please for the love of god stop talking about suspension. Every time such crap is written, the ghost of savville grabs an angel and defiles it.

Surely the whole point of VPP is to induce chain growth the counteract pedal bob?

ricardo_smooth

Yes. It allows the growt as it the suspension platform coupeled with the correct chain length. Hence why your chain has the same chance of a snap with a clutch mech as a normal one. Why have there not been tons of chain snaps as a result of people fitting clutch mechs if this wasn't true?