Marc Madiot for President (of anything, dont care)

Nick Fitt

As much as I want cycling as a sport to grow (actually, I dont, I think it has enough races, I mean coverage, respect etc). I hate to see its 'pure and noble' history and traditions lost or losing out (no doping comments, I mean race history). Sky is breaking new ground for sure, employing a Tri coach, is in the face of history where a DS/coaching staff would come from an environment where they had proven themselves in the peloton (http://roadcyclinguk.com/news/racing-ne ... -9183.html).

On the other hand, Madiot, hates radios, hates scientific racing (power for powers sake) and a great many other modernisations and Im with him on this. Sky is heralding huge change in the sport - which might be good, but, I am not so sure. Perhaps Im being elitist but to me, bike racing is balls and feel, boom tish. Anyway, rant over. Accepting FdJ has no real GC chance in the immediate future, I do wonder though that if its true all of the teams are riding clean next year (and beyond), then the old versus new strategies could make great racing??? Unless Sky will place a diesel engine at the front of every stage/race to nullify any real attacking chances.

"Its winning Jim but not as we know it!"

Bring on next year and lets see what the likes of Madiots Th. Pinot et al can do against the scientists arriving in the sport in 2013 and beyond!

ddraver

Blah blah whinge whinge, back in mah day we lived in t'cardboard box in t' middle o' t' road....

You and Trev will get on swimmingly!

bompington

We can all understand how you feel. Pro teams and riders, on the other hand, are more interested in winning races.

iainf72

What is Sky changing at the races though? Nothing. Strong riders on the front, setting a pace. Sounds like normal cycling to me

Madiot should just go back to bitching about conti teams winning races his team are in.

prawny

To be fair Wiggo's coach is from swimming so a Tri coach is much less of a stretch.

Richmond Racer

iainf72 wrote:

What is Sky changing at the races though? Nothing. Strong riders on the front, setting a pace. Sounds like normal cycling to me

Madiot should just go back to bitching about conti teams winning races his team are in.

One of of Madiot's finest moments this year appears to have been arguing against Endura being invited to Tour Mediterraneen/Tour du Haut-Var. Brian Smith rather reasonably described him as an idiot.

Nick Fitt

iainf72 wrote:

What is Sky changing at the races though? Nothing. Strong riders on the front, setting a pace. Sounds like normal cycling to me

Madiot should just go back to bitching about conti teams winning races his team are in.

No, not at all correct.

I think I am right in saying the Olympic RRs (male and female) did not have team radios. The outcome whilst maybe not so great for Brit cycling fans was far more unpredictable and enjoyable.

The TdF was memorable only for Wiggins win which I am as happy as any about (save him!). If he rides to win the Giro and maybe the Vuelta, and Froome the TdF, it might not be very exciting, more scientifically geeky exciting, obviously you guys like a good old slug of dull racing. I imagine if it gets too exciting then you'll declare dope

"“There were some moments of the race, where we were overly cautious,” says Froome. “Perhaps we would have been too greedy, if we were too ambitious. I do believe we could have got more out of the race, without compromising the yellow jersey.”"

ddraver

For Wiggins and the FdJ win with Madiot thumping on the car you mean? The reason you ve heard of this man and started this thread?

Oh and Sagan...
Oh and Voeckler...
Oh and Cavendish...
Oh and Chavanal...
Oh and LLS...

I don't mean this as harshly as it sounds, but do yourself a favour and make your own opinion...

bompington

If you want to promote exciting racing when the teams just want to win, isn't it just artificial? You could up the excitement level by allowing riders to push each other off their bikes, or have the lanterne rouge chased by grisly bears, but would it actually make it a better race?
I'm slightly inclined to agree with you about race radios, but you can bet that teams would find ways to communicate without them, and who knows what unintended consequences might follow.
You can lament the fact that the desire to win of people in all sports has led to too much analysis and not enough unpredictability, but you can hardly improve things by asking for a mutual commitment to amateurishness, which is the only thing that could turn the clock back.

RichN95.

Nick Fitt wrote:

I think I am right in saying the Olympic RRs (male and female) did not have team radios. The outcome whilst maybe not so great for Brit cycling fans was far more unpredictable and enjoyable.

That was more down to the teams only being five strong. There weren't race radios at the 2011 Worlds either and GB throttled the life out of that one.

The fact is that given a strong enough team and a good enough 'finisher', the way Sky/GB rides is the most effective way of racing - and it can be controlled by a road captain just as well as a DS on the radio.

ddraver

bompington wrote:

or have the lanterne rouge chased by grisly bears

Wow!!!!

Richmond Racer

ddraver wrote:

bompington wrote:

or have the lanterne rouge chased by grisly bears

Wow!!!!

It does have a certain appeal...and it would certainly guarantee the gruppetto made the time cut

Nick Fitt

ddraver wrote:

For Wiggins and the FdJ win with Madiot thumping on the car you mean? The reason you ve heard of this man and started this thread?

Oh and Sagan...
Oh and Voeckler...
Oh and Cavendish...
Oh and Chavanal...
Oh and LLS...

I don't mean this as harshly as it sounds, but do yourself a favour and make your own opinion...

Sorry mate, I have been around cycle racing for a long time. My wife is French and I have had the pleasure of watching an awful lot of cycle sport and training too in France, I have long been aware of Madiot, FdJ. Dont be so fucking arrogant.

It is my opinion, I used Madiot an example as he is outspoken. Irrespective of his 'whingeing' he has been there and done it.

I am not google/wikipedia/news wire /arent I clever I saw it first hero that these forums tend to attract. What I cant get used to is the fact these forums are so negative, whatever anyone tries to discuss becomes a shit storm not of reasoned argument but my cocks bigger than yours.

bompington

Nick Fitt wrote:

ddraver wrote:

For Wiggins and the FdJ win with Madiot thumping on the car you mean? The reason you ve heard of this man and started this thread?

Oh and Sagan...
Oh and Voeckler...
Oh and Cavendish...
Oh and Chavanal...
Oh and LLS...

I don't mean this as harshly as it sounds, but do yourself a favour and make your own opinion...

Sorry mate, I have been around cycle racing for a long time. My wife is French and I have had the pleasure of watching an awful lot of cycle sport and training too in France, I have long been aware of Madiot, FdJ. Dont be so ******* arrogant.

It is my opinion, I used Madiot an example as he is outspoken. Irrespective of his 'whingeing' he has been there and done it.

I am not google/wikipedia/news wire /arent I clever I saw it first hero that these forums tend to attract. What I cant get used to is the fact these forums are so negative, whatever anyone tries to discuss becomes a shoot storm not of reasoned argument but my cocks bigger than yours.

Why, so it does.

hammerite

Nick Fitt wrote:

Bring on next year and lets see what the likes of Madiots Th. Pinot et al can do against the scientists arriving in the sport in 2013 and beyond!

Thibaut Pinot's brother Julien -

Doctoral student in Physical Activity and Exercise Sciences, mainly in Cycling. Coach of FDJ-Bigmat and CC Etupes.

So a scientist battling it out with scientists. Seems fair to me.

ddraver

Nick Fitt wrote:

ddraver wrote:

For Wiggins and the FdJ win with Madiot thumping on the car you mean? The reason you ve heard of this man and started this thread?

Oh and Sagan...
Oh and Voeckler...
Oh and Cavendish...
Oh and Chavanal...
Oh and LLS...

I don't mean this as harshly as it sounds, but do yourself a favour and make your own opinion...

Sorry mate, I have been around cycle racing for a long time. My wife is French and I have had the pleasure of watching an awful lot of cycle sport and training too in France, I have long been aware of Madiot, FdJ. Dont be so ******* arrogant.

It is my opinion, I used Madiot an example as he is outspoken. Irrespective of his 'whingeing' he has been there and done it.

I am not google/wikipedia/news wire /arent I clever I saw it first hero that these forums tend to attract. What I cant get used to is the fact these forums are so negative, whatever anyone tries to discuss becomes a shoot storm not of reasoned argument but my cocks bigger than yours.

Explain this sentence then - "The TdF was memorable only for Wiggins" - because it is demonstrably wrong.

Nick Fitt

hammerite wrote:

Nick Fitt wrote:

Bring on next year and lets see what the likes of Madiots Th. Pinot et al can do against the scientists arriving in the sport in 2013 and beyond!

Thibaut Pinot's brother Julien -

Doctoral student in Physical Activity and Exercise Sciences, mainly in Cycling. Coach of FDJ-Bigmat and CC Etupes.

So a scientist battling it out with scientists. Seems fair to me.

Correct, I should have said technologists.

Richmond Racer

Nick Fitt, if it makes you feel any better, I can guarantee that your co%k's bigger than mine. Helpful?

slim_boy_fat

Nick Fitt wrote:

ddraver wrote:

For Wiggins and the FdJ win with Madiot thumping on the car you mean? The reason you ve heard of this man and started this thread?

Oh and Sagan...
Oh and Voeckler...
Oh and Cavendish...
Oh and Chavanal...
Oh and LLS...

I don't mean this as harshly as it sounds, but do yourself a favour and make your own opinion...

Sorry mate, I have been around cycle racing for a long time. My wife is French and I have had the pleasure of watching an awful lot of cycle sport and training too in France, I have long been aware of Madiot, FdJ. Dont be so ******* arrogant.

It is my opinion, I used Madiot an example as he is outspoken. Irrespective of his 'whingeing' he has been there and done it.

I am not google/wikipedia/news wire /arent I clever I saw it first hero that these forums tend to attract. What I cant get used to is the fact these forums are so negative, whatever anyone tries to discuss becomes a shoot storm not of reasoned argument but my cocks bigger than yours.

Oh the irony.

mike6

Nick Fitt wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

What is Sky changing at the races though? Nothing. Strong riders on the front, setting a pace. Sounds like normal cycling to me

Madiot should just go back to bitching about conti teams winning races his team are in.

No, not at all correct.

I think I am right in saying the Olympic RRs (male and female) did not have team radios. The outcome whilst maybe not so great for Brit cycling fans was far more unpredictable and enjoyable.

The TdF was memorable only for Wiggins win which I am as happy as any about (save him!). If he rides to win the Giro and maybe the Vuelta, and Froome the TdF, it might not be very exciting, more scientifically geeky exciting, obviously you guys like a good old slug of dull racing. I imagine if it gets too exciting then you'll declare dope

"“There were some moments of the race, where we were overly cautious,” says Froome. “Perhaps we would have been too greedy, if we were too ambitious. I do believe we could have got more out of the race, without compromising the yellow jersey.”"

I like Marc Madiot. What is dull about the strongest, clean, rider, winning the Tour???

Nick Fitt

Mike, My comment supports your view that the Tour was great for Wiggins winning. He was the strongest, clean and did win, it was fgreat for Gb and the Tour, massively so in fact given this summers LA scandal. I'm with you 100% on that.

Let me put my original post another way; The team used to their advantage power output readings, calculated averages, tv broadcasts, GPS, you name it all from inside the team car. The team car was pretty much the team leader (not the guy on the road) in driving the tactics for the day to ensure they did not get caught out by breaks etc. If all teams adopt this way of racing, then will racing be as spontaneous and exciting? GC in the main.

mike6

Yea, see what you mean Nick.

I must admit I am all for the banning of radios in the peloton. A rider should have the nouse to react or not to a situation.
As for the power figures though. If you have a power meter on your bike, and you are doing 420 watts on a climb, there are not many riders who can attack and sustain it, so I dont think that is an issue.

Vino'sGhost

On the c ock front, since were all talking about it I have a confession

PED

that is all

Nick Fitt

mike6 wrote:

Yea, see what you mean Nick.

I must admit I am all for the banning of radios in the peloton. A rider should have the nouse to react or not to a situation.
As for the power figures though. If you have a power meter on your bike, and you are doing 420 watts on a climb, there are not many riders who can attack and sustain it, so I dont think that is an issue.

Its not so much being able to put out X watts on a climb Mike, its more the DS in a car calculating that riding at a certain power level during any stage will then pull the break back 2 Km from the finish etc. If/when all teams do this, GTs could be a bit dull

iainf72

Nick Fitt wrote:

Its not so much being able to put out X watts on a climb Mike, its more the DS in a car calculating that riding at a certain power level during any stage will then pull the break back 2 Km from the finish etc. If/when all teams do this, GTs could be a bit dull

Knowing your wattage isn't going to make someone ride at the wattage though. Power meters don't mean people can ride harder than usual.

The reason racing, especially at the Tour, has become dull is because it's so important for sponsors. The commercial pressures leave little room for heroics.

mroli

Sorry Iain72 - not sure that applies - surely that leaves more room for heroics? Especially at the tour - glorious do or die efforts. No team can police an entire peloton.

iainf72

mroli wrote:

Sorry Iain72 - not sure that applies - surely that leaves more room for heroics? Especially at the tour - glorious do or die efforts. No team can police an entire peloton.

No, but 4 or 5 can, and do.

rick_chasey

iainf72 wrote:

mroli wrote:

Sorry Iain72 - not sure that applies - surely that leaves more room for heroics? Especially at the tour - glorious do or die efforts. No team can police an entire peloton.

No, but 4 or 5 can, and do.

Yup.

frenchfighter

Don't worry Nick, DDraver rides an mtb.

I see your original point and im all for exciting and instinctive racing but to be honest it still exists in spades. The Tour is good but not great - the Vuelta and Giro are much better examples of old school class and panache. Most of the other races can provide fine displays, provided the riders are fit and motivated.

Sky being English and a product of the robotic BC as well as being so much disussed on this forum, gives them a sense of having more of an impact than they actually do. They can and still be beaten. Contador will destroy them next year; it's going to be fun.

Numbers matter but talent and tactics will tear them apart. It's quite funny when you see the numbers types get flustered when things don't go to the DS's plan.

Nick Fitt

frenchfighter wrote:

Don't worry Nick, DDraver rides an mtb.

I see your original point and im all for exciting and instinctive racing but to be honest it still exists in spades. The Tour is good but not great - the Vuelta and Giro are much better examples of old school class and panache. Most of the other races can provide fine displays, provided the riders are fit and motivated.

Sky being English and a product of the robotic BC as well as being so much disussed on this forum, gives them a sense of having more of an impact than they actually do. They can and still be beaten. Contador will destroy them next year; it's going to be fun.

Numbers matter but talent and tactics will tear them apart. It's quite funny when you see the numbers types get flustered when things don't go to the DS's plan.

Thanks, the 'smaller' Tours are always a bit more spicey. For all their failings, the Spanish and Italian climbers have over the years been quite spectacular IMHO! I hope that the exciting stuff stays, the technology available is at the beginning of its growth curve and much as F1 became dull when 'all cars were made equal', GTs could too as the leader may well become sat in the car not on the road.

ddraver

frenchfighter wrote:

Don't worry Nick, DDraver rides an mtb.

What does that have to do with anything? Tell you what i went for a road ride yesterday so we ll call me a road rider again now shall we?

We know because we ve watched the races (have nt we!) that what makes cycling more exciting are smaller teams riding shorter stages. Possibly without radios (although people have always found a way around that).

What gizmos they have on their bikes is irrelevant. Behold Tommy Voeckler, a rider who does nt ride with a Powermeter yet gets pilloried because of his "histrionics" This tour was no different to almost any other tour that has ever been raced. All we have here is an lazy opinion plucked from the "cool gang" on twitter mixed with the standard english speaking cycling fan emo nostalgia for a cycling that never existed other than in people heads.

IF you think Mercx did nt buy up the best of the competition or have a faithful loyal servant that followed him from team to team and then rode like a steam train on the front of the peloton every time Eddyboy wanted a rest then I suggest you have a flick through one of the recent books on the lad. Putting domestiques on the front to kill attacks is not a Sky thing, it's not a powermeter thing, it's not even a modern thing. it's a cycling thing!

However I do agree with you Frenchie that a suitcase full of drugs will beat a suitcase full of courage or a suitcase full of powermeters every time...