Energy gels-are they worth it (vs strong energy drink)?

Herbsman

Trev The Rev wrote:

Herbsman wrote:

Trev The Rev wrote:

Herbsman wrote:

wilo13 wrote:

It has been proven you do not need to take on carbs until 90-120 minutes into exercise.

If you're going to come with statements like that, you'd better come with evidence

Anyone who wishes to prove otherwise should produce evidence.

It doesn't work like that you mug

Sorry, you are wrong about this, the evidence does show around the 2 h mark is where ingestion of supplemental carbohydrate during exercise begins to be beneficial.

It is for those who claim certain products improve performance to produce evidence.

You don't agree with me, then fine, but is there really any need to resort to name calling?

Yes.

Let me explain to you. If someone makes a claim that something is or isn't true, it is up to the person making the claim to provide evidence to back them up. It is not up to the person questioning those claims to provide evidence. Got it?

Trev The Rev

Here is one of the most often quoted studies.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3525502

The placebo worked as well as carbohydrate for 3 hours. Coggan has recently confirmed that the tests were done after a 12 hour fast (which he tells me is normal) he also confirms that there is no performance benefit in ingesting carbohydrate for about 2 hours.

More.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6390613

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6350247

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3053587

No one is saying carbohydrate does not work for events lasting over about 2 hours, carbs enable you to carry on longer, that is rather different to carbohydrate allowing better performance over races lasting less than 2 hours.

NB; these results are after a 12 hour fast, it is probable carbohydrate would not help for even longer if the subjects had taken on carbohydrate closer to the tests.

Herbsman is now on my ignore list.

Herbsman

wilo13 wrote:

Herbsman wrote:

Trev The Rev wrote:

Herbsman wrote:

Trev The Rev wrote:

Herbsman wrote:

wilo13 wrote:

It has been proven you do not need to take on carbs until 90-120 minutes into exercise.

If you're going to come with statements like that, you'd better come with evidence

Anyone who wishes to prove otherwise should produce evidence.

It doesn't work like that you mug

Sorry, you are wrong about this, the evidence does show around the 2 h mark is where ingestion of supplemental carbohydrate during exercise begins to be beneficial.

It is for those who claim certain products improve performance to produce evidence.

You don't agree with me, then fine, but is there really any need to resort to name calling?

Yes.

Let me explain to you. If someone makes a claim that something is or isn't true, it is up to the person making the claim to provide evidence to back them up. It is not up to the person questioning those claims to provide evidence. Got it?

I don't want to get in a forum battle but as Trev has pointed out there are numerous studies which show carbohydrate uptake is only significantly beneficial roughly 2hrs into endurance sport. Being a sport science graduate from Loughborough (with a first I might add) and reading a lot of papers on the topic as well as many of my friends being masters students on this topic I think I probably know more than you. If you really want me to I can happily send over a few journal articles for you to read.

If you're a graduate then you should know damned well that "I know more than you" is not a valid argument. Arguing from a point of authority doesn't make your argument any more valid if you don't back it up with evidence...

Herbsman

Trev The Rev wrote:

Herbsman is now on my ignore list.

What was it Trev said about people using the 'ignore' function? Something about 'brainwashed idiots' I seem to remember.

Seems he has added a lot of people to his ignore list, recently and seems to take great pleasure in telling people when he's done so.

Also interesting how he just ignores anything he doesn't like. Very mature...

FransJacques

Thanks for the Coggan, Coyle abstracts.

While I can't pretent to understand exactly what they're supporting or dis-proving, it's interesting to see what testing has shown.

I'm now wondering if the benefit i get from caffeine gels in a CX race is more the caffeine and less the carbs in the gel? (I take them 10-15 mins before the start)

ben@31

Herbsman wrote:

Note that I posted this in the Amateur Race subforum. Are you going to stop and have cake during a race?

Errr why not? If you can't stop for a sit down bacon butty, cup of tea and a read of the newspaper mid race then you're not cycling fast enough.

Herbsman

ben@31 wrote:

Herbsman wrote:

Note that I posted this in the Amateur Race subforum. Are you going to stop and have cake during a race?

Errr why not? If you can't stop for a sit down bacon butty, cup of tea and a read of the newspaper mid race then you're not cycling fast enough.

True, a couple of mates and I had so much time during a breakaway we stopped for a quick pint and a game of darts in the local pub during a 2/3/4 race.

Trev The Rev

Herbsman wrote:

ben@31 wrote:

Herbsman wrote:

Note that I posted this in the Amateur Race subforum. Are you going to stop and have cake during a race?

Errr why not? If you can't stop for a sit down bacon butty, cup of tea and a read of the newspaper mid race then you're not cycling fast enough.

True, a couple of mates and I had so much time during a breakaway we stopped for a quick pint and a game of darts in the local pub during a 2/3/4 race.

Not difficult these days with all the scientific training, power meters, sports drinks & gels. The standard of the average rider today is pathetic.

Herbsman

I thought I was on your ignore list?

clanton

wilo13 wrote:

I was about to make the same point. It has been proven you do not need to take on carbs until 90-120 minutes into exercise. Therefore rides of less than an hour I have water. Rides up to two hours I have water and if its hot (not very often in this country) a non calorie electrolyte tablet. Rides of 2 hours more I still drink water put will take some food with me. For really long rides I might have one bottle of water and one bottle of a 4 part carb 1 part protein energy mix (5kg tub for like 30 quid). It used to make me chuckle when people at the gym were slurping on lucozades when they were doing a 20 min run on the treadmill.

This I find interesting - because based on my experiences I seem to need carbs much sooner than that. If riding at a moderate steady pace after a good meal I can certainly go 1 to 1 1/2 hours without carbs but even if I have eaten in the not too distant past an intense hour on the turbo will have me feeling "hollow" and wobbly near the end. Similarly even on commutes home I sometimes get that early hunger knock feeling too - as early as 30 minutes into the ride. I tend to eat some fruit just before setting off and I now stash an energy bar in the bag for bad days.