Londoners: Richmond Park closed to cars on Sundays?

Ian.B

Koncordski wrote:

As a long time local, having always lived within a short bus ride/cycle to the park I don't think it goes far enough. We live in an increasingly congested and overdeveloped urban landscape where every available plot is gaining a new block of flats. I'd remove the ability for traffic to use the park as a through road. Most of the car parks are close to a gate, within a few hundred metres in every case, there is no need to be allowed to get all the way from one side to another in a car. People could drive in and out to the car park easily from the local gate to it, hell you could get really radical and run a shuttle bus from kingston and richmond stations to the middle of the park. They blight the park and never stick to the 20mph limit, and it's already proven that you don't need the road capacity, the park shuts at 16:30 in the winter and the evening rush hour mysteriously goes elsewhere. It's a park, you know for people, it shouldn't be a major arterial road.

As a long time local, having always lived within a short bus ride/cycle to the park I disagree! The option to drive through the park is a life enhancing one. Many more people's days are enhanced by the opportunity to drive through the park on their way to somewhere compared with those who use it as a destination in itself. My mother, for example, gets great pleasure from taking that route to drive to us rather than using the roads outside the park. Banning through traffic (or penalising it with tolls) would remove a hugely beneficial amenity for a large number of local people who use and enjoy the park in that way. It shouldn't become the exclusive preserve of walkers and cyclists. And it's not as if the whole park is blighted by traffic - the roads are round the edges and there are huge areas which are a traffic (and traffic noise) free environment for those who want that.

roger_merriman

London-Red wrote:

Problem is that the time when the park would benefit most from having less traffic is at the weekend - this is obviously when it gets the most recreational use. So a scheme to reduce commuter use of the park would be pointless, because there would be no real benefactors.

At the same time, it would contribute to congestion elsewhere.

That is the nub of it, the park is at it's busiest on a sunny sunday afternoon not on a wet monday rush hour.

okgo

Aside from the fact I don't think I can recall an e-petition ever being successful, I agree with the against crowd. It's pretty selfish of us to expect the park to be made a cycling haven I think. Especially given its hardly what the park is all about IMO. Riding the road is ok, it's pretty dull after a lap, if the weather permits far better riding can be had in the lanes which are 30 mins from the park by car, 15 by train, 15 by car. The parks appeal is for the bit away from the road, and when you are away from the road, on foot, it's fine, and you barely notice the cars anyway.

itboffin

Toll fee for through traffic is a great idea it would help pay for a dedicated cycle track so peds and learners don't end up getting taken out by would be brad mamils.

I used to walk my dog there back in the days before cycling and heavy traffic, Its a park well worth walking across sometimes.

chadders81

Can't agree with this. It would put the park off limits for so many people and would only benefit cyclists ie not pedestrians, families, walkers.

I don't think cars are a problem really. Most stick to the speed limit as much as cyclists. To be honest, I've been to made to feel more intimidated by groups of London Dynamo riders passing far too close on Broomfield Hill.

vermin

Looks like more us - vs - them to me. RP is far too big to be made off limits to motor vehicles at the weekend. Not all park users have the mobility to get in and around the facility that we enjoy. This week we've learned that one of out fellow posters would be effectively excluded from RP as a result of such a plan - does that sound fair?

Asprilla's idea is a good one though, in theory. Not very easy or cheap to implement though.

veronese68

From an entirely selfish point of view I wouldn't mind the park being shut to traffic on a Sunday. But I'm lucky enough to live within walking distance. It would be great for my kids.
If it were to be done it wouldn't be to turn the road into a race circuit for MAMILs though. As has been said above all and sundry would be wandering about in the road. have you ever ridden from Ham Gate to the Pen Ponds car park on a Sunday? You can't ride along there at any speed without endangering yourself and others.
As has been said above access to car parks would have to be allowed. In order to stop cars carrying on through the park there would be large gates across the road like the one by the Pembroke Lodge car park. When there is an event in the evening the gate is closed.
Besides the park is surrounded by some very expensive houses. The owners of these houses probably won't want the increase in traffic this would cause. There was the ridiculous situation a while ago when Petersham Road had a 20mph speed limit, but the park was still 30mph.

MarkAshton

Leave the park as it is gets my vote. Many Many Many people don't ride bikes but still like to enjoy the park. There is more to life than cycling round a park. Cycle somewhere else if you don't like it. My 2p's worth :-D

p.s. I like the park, I only ever cycle around it and don't own a car but am conscious of the wider opinion other than just cyclists.

mozzer2906

Signed

Fantastic idea... or maybe a slightly refined version... closed to traffic from 8-11 I wouldnt mind getting up early to cycle the 20k across!

ugo.santalucia

Asprilla wrote:

I still think the best idea is to make it a toll road; spend less than 30 minutes in the park and pay a £2 toll on your motor vehicle. That way people driving to the park to enjoy it for recreational purposes are not penalised.

This is the most sensible solution... If at all feasible without it costing 50 million pounds to put in place the technology

TheStone

The ideal solution would be to make the car parks accessible from the outside and entrance roads. This might even be possible. Kingston Gate and Robin Hood Gate (although that might be shut). Bit of work at Roehampton / Richmond.
Central car parks closed.

DonDaddyD

F-it, just close the park to cars on Sundays. I'm sure there are other parks in London that don't provide vehicle 7 days a week and they do fine - are frequented regularly....

notsoblue

okgo wrote:

Aside from the fact I don't think I can recall an e-petition ever being successful, I agree with the against crowd. It's pretty selfish of us to expect the park to be made a cycling haven I think. Especially given its hardly what the park is all about IMO. Riding the road is ok, it's pretty dull after a lap, if the weather permits far better riding can be had in the lanes which are 30 mins from the park by car, 15 by train, 15 by car. The parks appeal is for the bit away from the road, and when you are away from the road, on foot, it's fine, and you barely notice the cars anyway.

The reasoning wasn't to clear the road of cars for local club chaingangs... I think you've misunderstood the whole point of the petition.

meanredspider

How does Richmond Park compare to Windsor Park? WP is almost impassable by bike in places at the weekend because of kids on scooters and dogs all wandering aimlessly along the 38mph roads. It could almost do with MORE cars :shock:

roger_merriman

DonDaddyD wrote:

F-it, just close the park to cars on Sundays. I'm sure there are other parks in London that don't provide vehicle 7 days a week and they do fine - are frequented regularly....

Why now is it so terrible a idea that cars use the park? people clearly enjoy taking the park in on a sunday looking at the deer or stopping at one of the cafe's or hiring a bike or going on a horse ride and so on.

Why should should one group (cyclists) get to monopolise a park? they get a fairly good deal at the moment as it is, with.

one off road trail (tamsin)
one good loop plus some traffic free sections tarmac roads
blind eye turned to the local club and it's runs.
open early for TT's

plus this is not a area lacking in traffic free routes, you have.

Bushy Park
Wimbdone Common
routes along the river, plus Crane park, and so on.

DonDaddyD

Conversely, why isit so terrible an idea that cars don't use the park?

sketchley

Just a thought but why not just make it one way (clockwise only) for cars plus no overtaking, leaving the otehr lane clear (anticlockwise) for bikes, you might need a marshall or two at the car park exits for the first few weeks and you would need to paint stuff on the roads showing its one way. That'll do I don't need the whole road, plus all exit entries to car parks, cafes, golf clubs etc are only slightly affected.

You could even do this perminantly not just on a Sunday.

bigmat

DonDaddyD wrote:

Conversely, why isit so terrible an idea that cars don't use the park?

Because it would massively limit access for a huge number of people. I just don't see the need for it. The park is huge and the road is peripheral - for anybody other than road cyclists, once you get there just cross the road and you've more free space than you know what to do with. For faster road cyclists, banning cars would be counter-productive (roads would become mixed use, speed limits would be enforced more for bikes). So basically the only people this would favour would be slowish cyclists. Why can't they just go on the off road path?

sketchley

BigMat wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Conversely, why isit so terrible an idea that cars don't use the park?

Because it would massively limit access for a huge number of people. I just don't see the need for it. The park is huge and the road is peripheral - for anybody other than road cyclists, once you get there just cross the road and you've more free space than you know what to do with. For faster road cyclists, banning cars would be counter-productive (roads would become mixed use, speed limits would be enforced more for bikes). So basically the only people this would favour would be slowish cyclists. Why can't they just go on the off road path?

Conversely almost all roads in London have cars on them and there is very little, if any, space given over to closed road cycling. Is it too much to ask if out of the 10,000 plus miles of road (that's a guess I don't know the exact figure) in the greater London area 7 of them could be given up to cyclists once a week?

DF33

It can't be that difficult to use the congestion charge system already in place, add in the cameras and signs at RP. Doesn't need all the legal paraphinalia of the CC warnings etc as not part of it.
Pay as per the CC or, say, £30 fine lands on your doorstep.

£2 per car soon adds up and would pay for it

bigmat

I just don't really get the point. Richmond Park is one of the few places where there are traffic free roads already, just not the one round the perimeter. Plus there is the shared off road path. The roads never seem particularly dangerous due to motor traffic, certainly compared to the roads you'd have to ride to get there ('cos you wouldn't be driving!), just a bit congested, but if the cars weren't there it would be far worse due to the roads effectively becoming mixed use footpaths / cycle lanes.

DonDaddyD

BigMat wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Conversely, why isit so terrible an idea that cars don't use the park?

Because it would massively limit access for a huge number of people. I just don't see the need for it. The park is huge and the road is peripheral - for anybody other than road cyclists, once you get there just cross the road and you've more free space than you know what to do with. For faster road cyclists, banning cars would be counter-productive (roads would become mixed use, speed limits would be enforced more for bikes). So basically the only people this would favour would be slowish cyclists. Why can't they just go on the off road path?

I wouldn't mind the increase in cyclists. I don't use Richmond park for the single pursuit of speed.