Londoners: Richmond Park closed to cars on Sundays?

Wrath Rob

Not yet, but there's a petition to the government to make it the case. I'm not sure how much the Government can do but if it can raise enough noise then it might push the Royal Parks to pay attention. I've signed it.

Apparently its going to be on ITV tonight as well. More details here

Text from the petition:

Olympic Legacy: Richmond Park Cycling Access

Responsible department: Department for Culture, Media and Sport

We, the undersigned, call on the government to promote the Olympic legacy by closing Richmond Park to motor vehicles on Sundays, on the following grounds:
• 2012 was an unprecedented year for British cycling. After watching the Olympic road races navigate London and the Surrey Hills many people have been inspired to get out on their bikes. This increase in participation can only be maintained if there are suitable and safe venues in which to cycle.
• Two-thirds of people surveyed said they felt no benefit from London hosting the Olympics and Paralympics. This would bring the Olympic legacy to the widest possible audience.
• Richmond Park is a National Nature Reserve, an SSSI and a Grade 1 Listed landscape. The temporary closure would not only enhance the experience for cyclists but would also promote the conservation, protection and improvement of the natural and physical environment of the Park, and its peace and natural beauty for the benefit the public and future generations.

greg66_tri_v2.0

Signed. Was thinking on Sunday this would be a good idea. Probably still have the odd cop car plus speed gun though.

Took four goes to get the captcha thing right though!

pangolin

Is the proposal just for it to be completely closed to cars? What do people do who don't live close enough, and want to drive there, park up, and walk / cycle around?

I don't even own a car, but I would be pretty sympathetic to them wanting to be allowed to access the car parks at least.

ShandyH

I'm afraid I agree with Pangolin. It's a bit exclusive for families as it then becomes an absolute pain in the proverbial to get a family there. And surely the whole point of the Olympics was to get kids active so I find this link a bit spurious.

Koncordski

As a long time local, having always lived within a short bus ride/cycle to the park I don't think it goes far enough. We live in an increasingly congested and overdeveloped urban landscape where every available plot is gaining a new block of flats. I'd remove the ability for traffic to use the park as a through road. Most of the car parks are close to a gate, within a few hundred metres in every case, there is no need to be allowed to get all the way from one side to another in a car. People could drive in and out to the car park easily from the local gate to it, hell you could get really radical and run a shuttle bus from kingston and richmond stations to the middle of the park. They blight the park and never stick to the 20mph limit, and it's already proven that you don't need the road capacity, the park shuts at 16:30 in the winter and the evening rush hour mysteriously goes elsewhere. It's a park, you know for people, it shouldn't be a major arterial road.

ShandyH

I tend to agree with this but how do you police it?

ShandyH

Although saying this, the roads around RP are snarled up at the best of times. Closing the parkto through traffic would turn south west London into a bit of a gridlock.

bigmat

Selfish road cyclist hat on; this will ruin Richmond Park for cycling - the roads will be full of Daddies teaching toddlers to ride bikes, people wandering across the road looking for deer, groups of mega slow Mamils etc. We need the cars to scare that lot away (and for the occasional draft). That said, I avoid RP like the plague on a Sunday (except v early or v late) so not really my concern.

Headhuunter

Koncordski wrote:

As a long time local, having always lived within a short bus ride/cycle to the park I don't think it goes far enough. We live in an increasingly congested and overdeveloped urban landscape where every available plot is gaining a new block of flats. I'd remove the ability for traffic to use the park as a through road. Most of the car parks are close to a gate, within a few hundred metres in every case, there is no need to be allowed to get all the way from one side to another in a car. People could drive in and out to the car park easily from the local gate to it, hell you could get really radical and run a shuttle bus from kingston and richmond stations to the middle of the park. They blight the park and never stick to the 20mph limit, and it's already proven that you don't need the road capacity, the park shuts at 16:30 in the winter and the evening rush hour mysteriously goes elsewhere. It's a park, you know for people, it shouldn't be a major arterial road.

I agree, I don't know the area and I barely ever cycle in RP but why oh why does there need to be through traffic in a park? I'm all for restricting motor vehicles to smelly, heavily trafficked A roads as far as possible and opening up other roads to access by pedestrians, cyclists, runners etc. There is still far too much dominance and assumed right to domination of roads by people in cars and whilst it's easy to drive, people will simply continue to do so. If you create access and build roads, traffic will come. If you remove access, people bleat and moan for a while but they soon adapt and start to find alternative routes or methods of getting about. It has been discussed over and over again that most car journeys in and around London are a matter of a couple of miles at an average speed of about 10mph...

rjsterry

I'm nearer to the Surrey Hills than RP, so it's not that much of an issue for me. From memory, Sundays are a bit of a procession anyway, so I'm not sure it would make that much difference to cyclists, and you'd still need to allow access to the carparks, so cars would still be around on a fair bit of the circuit. On balance, I'm not sure the benefit to cyclists would justify the inconvenience to other park users.

asprilla

I still think the best idea is to make it a toll road; spend less than 30 minutes in the park and pay a £2 toll on your motor vehicle. That way people driving to the park to enjoy it for recreational purposes are not penalised.

Koncordski

ShandyH wrote:

Although saying this, the roads around RP are snarled up at the best of times. Closing the parkto through traffic would turn south west London into a bit of a gridlock.

But that's my point, it is closed every evening in the winter and the effect is that people avoid the area, it doesn't become a gridlock. All of the surrounding residential roads are quieter & safer etc. You make it permanent and after a month everyone will just adapt. Until you start restricting traffic flow and making it more inconvenient to jump in car people will still drive for short unnecessary journeys.

Headhuunter

Koncordski wrote:

ShandyH wrote:

Although saying this, the roads around RP are snarled up at the best of times. Closing the parkto through traffic would turn south west London into a bit of a gridlock.

But that's my point, it is closed every evening in the winter and the effect is that people avoid the area, it doesn't become a gridlock. All of the surrounding residential roads are quieter & safer etc. You make it permanent and after a month everyone will just adapt. Until you start restricting traffic flow and making it more inconvenient to jump in car people will still drive for short unnecessary journeys.

Exactly, sometimes if you pander to people in their cars they use their cars more... Most roads in London are snarled up at 1 time or other, and if we allow more and more vehicular access simply because if we don't, surrounding roads will become snarled up, we're simply allowing the allowing the continued domination of cars on our roads at the expense of all other users. If we start to actually consider other road users' needs and prevent people in cars from accessing every little corner of the city then people will be forced to consider other transport options or times of travel etc etc, hell we may even get more people on bikes! I really don't think it's valid to constantly reject ideas like simply on the basis that it was cause traffic problems elsewhere...

ShandyH

Yes but of all the days you need to use a car around that area, Sunday is the most pronounced because the trains and buses are hardly fantastic, so avoiding the area is sometimes not an option. I drove up Roehampton Lane last Sunday and the traffic was terrible. Shutting the park will only make things worse. Anyway, all by the by really. I just don't see enough benefits of shutting the park to motorists on a Sunday. If you want a serious ride, use the park early mornings or late evenings.

mroli

Agreed with ShandyH. There was an uproar when it was suggested that car parks in RP should charge - RP is a lot more than just a cyclists race track.

ManiaMuse

Don't think it could happen unless they had car parks outside the entrances which obviously isn't going to happen as there isn't space. Loads of families drive there to use the park at weekends. You could have a park and ride but it's a pretty posh part of London and I don't the idea would fly with the Chelsea Tractor types

Best idea would be to have a road toll at the gates that includes parking. Make it fairly steep, say £3/£4 so it penalises most those just driving through.

notsoblue

Signed.

I think this is a brilliant idea. Would love the park to be a more slow cyclist friendly place. At the weekends it gets so full of cars you may as well be on the open road.

il_principe

Problem is, we can't have our cake and eat it. You ban cars from the park and soon they'd be an outcry about cyclists. Plus the added danger of kids, dogs etc wandering into the car free road and mixing with rapid cyclists. Prob wouldn't effect me as I tend to ride early in the mornings, but easy to see the argument being made.

I'd love to see traffic being banned from the park completely but it won't happen, SW Londoners love their cars and you still have the buildings in the park that require vehicular access.

A toll is a good idea though, perhaps it could pay for a better road surface!

roger_merriman

No because there are loads of users of the park, as folks have mentioned public transport is rubbish on Sundays.

if your a walker etc you'll probably come by car, hell plenty of the bikes come by car, if your disabled have a family and so on your best choice is a car.

And yes some folks do just drive though not just as a rat run but to gawp at the deer, which is kinda the point of the park.

And with out cars the roads will be full of walkers etc wee kids dogs on leads right across the road etc. presently it's segregated without cars it will be all one crush of folks getting annoyed by each others presences.

Very poor idea.

Tricycleboy

Live 2 mins up the road and currently avoid the place entirely- not bothered by the cars, its the vast amount of nodding mamils i can't cope with. It would be sooooo much worse if they closed it to traffic entirely.

Would agree with blocking it to through traffic though- I have always wondered why a royal park is allowed to be used as a short cut to people not there to enjoy it for what it is. And the roads nearby are so congested anyway i doubt it'd make any difference.

Headhuunter

mroli wrote:

Agreed with ShandyH. There was an uproar when it was suggested that car parks in RP should charge - RP is a lot more than just a cyclists race track.

It should be a lot more than a cut through rat run for motorists too though... It's a park not an access route...

Headhuunter

roger merriman wrote:

No because there are loads of users of the park, as folks have mentioned public transport is rubbish on Sundays.

if your a walker etc you'll probably come by car, hell plenty of the bikes come by car, if your disabled have a family and so on your best choice is a car.

And yes some folks do just drive though not just as a rat run but to gawp at the deer, which is kinda the point of the park.

And with out cars the roads will be full of walkers etc wee kids dogs on leads right across the road etc. presently it's segregated without cars it will be all one crush of folks getting annoyed by each others presences.

Very poor idea.

Yes but proper users of the park use it for walking, running, kids days out, picnics etc (and of course cycling). People who drive to the park for these purposes can easily park up in one of the car parks by the entrance, get out and GASP actually WALK with their kids around the park, they don't need to drive around, gazing at the world through the windows of a Honda... There should most definitely be an end to using a Royal Park as an access/rat run route simply because the main A roads are busy. If you want to drive, tough, sit in traffic.... Your choice...

roger_merriman

Headhuunter wrote:

roger merriman wrote:

No because there are loads of users of the park, as folks have mentioned public transport is rubbish on Sundays.

if your a walker etc you'll probably come by car, hell plenty of the bikes come by car, if your disabled have a family and so on your best choice is a car.

And yes some folks do just drive though not just as a rat run but to gawp at the deer, which is kinda the point of the park.

And with out cars the roads will be full of walkers etc wee kids dogs on leads right across the road etc. presently it's segregated without cars it will be all one crush of folks getting annoyed by each others presences.

Very poor idea.

Yes but proper users of the park use it for walking, running, kids days out, picnics etc (and of course cycling). People who drive to the park for these purposes can easily park up in one of the car parks by the entrance, get out and GASP actually WALK with their kids around the park, they don't need to drive around, gazing at the world through the windows of a Honda... There should most definitely be an end to using a Royal Park as an access/rat run route simply because the main A roads are busy. If you want to drive, tough, sit in traffic.... Your choice...

Sure the locals would love, people parking outside the gates....

Yes people use it as a cut though, it's a nice way though. It's how I rode home tonight but why shouldn't folks drive though, it's not as if it's something new.

asprilla

Toll road, seriously.

People who want to use the park can still go there, park up and enjoy the space without paying. People who want to use it as a rat run; that will be £2.50 please.

mroli

Headhuunter wrote:

People who drive to the park for these purposes can easily park up in one of the car parks by the entrance, get out and GASP actually WALK with their kids around the park, they don't need to drive around, gazing at the world through the windows of a Honda...

Is there not a concern that if you prevent people from driving to the Park, that people stop using the Park? What about the Car Park between Richmond/Ham - how do people get to that? What if you live in Roehampton and want to meet friends in the Kingston Car Park? What about people accessing the Ballet School? What about people who are old/young/infirm wanting to get to the Isabella plantation?

Your suggestions wouldn't hurt my use of the park, but I can see why it is convenient for people to drive cars through the Park - doesn't bother me.

london-red

Asprilla wrote:

Toll road, seriously.

People who want to use the park can still go there, park up and enjoy the space without paying. People who want to use it as a rat run; that will be £2.50 please.

Didn't you say £2 the first time? That's inflation for you...

For what it's worth, I reckon it's a cracking idea.

kurako

I have in the past driven through the park as on the way to Kingston or even just when the little one is sleeping. It's not the fastest but at least you tend to keep moving. I'd grudgingly give that up since some drivers do tend to behave like dicks (and in the interest of balance I suppose some cyclists do to, heh heh!).

Anyway, in the interests of compromise why not make it one way for cars. Say clockwise only. Really there is no need for cars to go in both directions.

asprilla

London-Red wrote:

Asprilla wrote:

Toll road, seriously.

People who want to use the park can still go there, park up and enjoy the space without paying. People who want to use it as a rat run; that will be £2.50 please.

Didn't you say £2 the first time? That's inflation for you...

For what it's worth, I reckon it's a cracking idea.

I did say £2 but then I realised that's too easy to lay your hands on and would be nothing for folks in Surrey or Welt London (see that? It's a sweeping generalisation).

Come up think of it, I think it should be 99p. Exact money only. That will annoy them.

london-red

Asprilla wrote:

London-Red wrote:

Asprilla wrote:

Toll road, seriously.

People who want to use the park can still go there, park up and enjoy the space without paying. People who want to use it as a rat run; that will be £2.50 please.

Didn't you say £2 the first time? That's inflation for you...

For what it's worth, I reckon it's a cracking idea.

I did say £2 but then I realised that's too easy to lay your hands on and would be nothing for folks in Surrey or Welt London (see that? It's a sweeping generalisation).

Come up think of it, I think it should be 99p. Exact money only. That will annoy them.

Has your predictive text technology gone haywire? Seriously, though, has this idea been put forward? I completely agree that the park should still be accessible by car, but this could really help to solve a problem. The only thing I'd say is that maybe rush hours should be exempt - Upper Richmond and Sheen Road are nuts at the best of times...

Maybe the other thing I'd say is that it wouldn't really solve anything - the park would still be full of cars!

asprilla

Bloody iProducts.

Basically I'm thinking it would be a congestion charge for the park. Every morning I've come through for the last three weeks the queue of stationary traffic to Richmond gate started beyond Ham Cross. That's obscene in a recreational space that is allegedly the 'lungs of London'.

The congestion charge is too easy for users though, it only costs money. If you make them pay the correct cash and issue tickets to enter / validate on exit the you are costing them time and effort which should help change behaviour.

london-red

Problem is that the time when the park would benefit most from having less traffic is at the weekend - this is obviously when it gets the most recreational use. So a scheme to reduce commuter use of the park would be pointless, because there would be no real benefactors.

At the same time, it would contribute to congestion elsewhere.