winter base training

Sprool

Been reading thru a load of threads here and articles elsewhere about benefits of base training, and I have to admit coming across a lot of conflicting info which is very confusing for me, a relative beginner. During the winter months I have the opportunity to do an hour on the rollers in the garage in the evening, and a couple of 2 - 3 hour rides at the weekend. Should I be focusing on keeping my heart rate in the low zone < 75% to maximise aerobic fitness, and increase fat burn, or should I concentrate on interval training, 5 mins low impact then 30 - 60 second all-out sprints, repeated 5 or 6 times?
Or should I be mixing the two up on alternate days? There's some articles saying in the winter just get the miles on without getting your heart rate high and don't be tempted to push into zone 3 or above. If you do more high intensity interval training does it interfere with the low impact work banked?
My goals are:
1) Improve general fitness
2) further weight loss
3) Be in good shape to ride a few 100k sportives next Spring.

dw300

1. Try to ride as often as possible.
2. Adjust your volume and intensity (per workout) to give you a good range of training, and allow you to achieve #1.

danowat

Maximum of 2-3hrs?, I wouldn't bother with low end rides, tempo would be more benificial......
As dw300 says, it's about managing fatigue also.

bigpikle

so why start yet ANOTHER thread on the exact same topic as the one that you just commented on and said was confusing?

Lots of different views and some evidence was posted on the other thread and all you will get here is the same stuff all over again. Choose what makes sense for YOU and do it. If you have only 1 hour in the evenings and 2-3 hours at weekends its going to be hard for you to lots of long distance training isnt it? Low intensity is recommended (by some people instead of higher intensity) when people can do LOTS of it.

Sprool

Thanks for your somewhat scathing comments Bigpikle, I apologise for trying your patience with my lack of understanding; thats really helped clarify the picture for me.
So if people have the time to do lots of low intensity work, say more than 10 or 15 hours a week, it's actually no better for them than doing shorter interval training sessions, e.g. an hour a night?

Herbsman

Sprool wrote:

Should I be focusing on keeping my heart rate in the low zone < 75% to maximise aerobic fitness, and increase fat burn, or should I concentrate on interval training, 5 mins low impact then 30 - 60 second all-out sprints, repeated 5 or 6 times?

I'm not sure why you only seem to want to either do a really easy or really hard hard ride. Bear in mind that you will benefit from riding at various levels of intensity inbetween these two extremes.

Herbsman

Also, wasn't the idea that riding at low intensity = increased fat metabolism dispelled as a myth ages ago?

simon_e

Herbsman wrote:

Bear in mind that you will benefit from riding at various levels of intensity inbetween these two extremes.

And the intensities with the greatest returns are apparently those in the middle of the range. Have a look at http://www.fascatcoaching.com/sweetspotpartdeux.html

By all means do longer rides but don't just pootle around. Mindful practice - focussing on pedalling style, maintaining a consistent cadence and effort level for instance - will be more beneficial than merely riding along. You could also do some 2x20 type sessions and some sprints.

Sprool

Bear in mind that you will benefit from riding at various levels of intensity inbetween these two extremes.

And the intensities with the greatest returns are apparently those in the middle of the range. Have a look at http://www.fascatcoaching.com/sweetspotpartdeux.html
By all means do longer rides but don't just pootle around. Mindful practice - focussing on pedalling style, maintaining a consistent cadence and effort level for instance - will be more beneficial than merely riding along. You could also do some 2x20 type sessions and some sprints.

Thanks guys, starting to make more sense to me. Theres a thorough blog on training with HR monitors on this Bikeradar forum that is still advocating remaining in zone 2 to burn more fat rather than carbs, so I guess if its a myth its not been thoroughly flushed out yet.
I wasn't sure what the most efficient use of training time was, some articles are very strict on not exceeding zone 2 for long weekend rides. Mixing it up during the week seems to make more sense to me.
I assume this most efficient middle zone is the bit they refer to as threshold or tempo?

bigpikle

The classic 'middle' ground is tempo - hard enough that you feel it in your legs and any conversation becomes a little hard to sustain for long, but you can keep the pace for long'ish periods (1-2 hrs) with some focus and effort.

'Threshold' often has lots of different meanings but is the sort of pace you can hold with determination for shorter periods than tempo (many people struggle to do much more than 50-60 mins sustained without a lot of motivation and 15-20 min repeats are common intervals) and during that time conversation is at best gasped words and occasional grunts at best...

Both of these intensities, done in appropriate amounts, will deliver excellent aerobic fitness benefits.

The key thing is that its a balance - you are looking for a training load, and that 'load' is a combination of intensity and volume of training. If you have lots of time to ride then you can do a high volume and low intensity to achieve a certain training load, but if your time is more limited and you cannot do as much volume, then you have to increase the intensity to get the same effects. Of course the higher the intensity then the lower the volume your body will allow you to do anyway, before it calls time on your efforts, either during a session or over a few days/weeks/months etc.

twotyred

I'm in much the same situation as yourself timewise. I'd say mix it up and keep your body guessing. I don't see much point in doing 1 hr endurance sessions on the rollers so 2-3 intense threshold/VO2 max sessions on the rollers (can you do that on rollers?) followed by your weekend rides. Even if your weekend rides are mostly endurance pace still mix it up with some tempo/sweetspot efforts, go all out on the hills or stick a sprint in every 15 mins or so. Give yourself one or two rest days a week.

poynedexter

Sprool wrote:

My goals are:
1) Improve general fitness
2) further weight loss
3) Be in good shape to ride a few 100k sportives next Spring.

to achieve your goals you dont need to "train".

1. just ride your bike
2. eat less calories
3. see #1. its 60miles and not a race.

as a side note. there is too much c@#p talked about training where there is no real need. to cycle faster/ longer, try pedalling faster for longer. everything else is marketing hype imho, that is

displacedaussie

This is still one of my favourite posts about training: http://captaintbag.tumblr.com/post/2133 ... city-farce

Plenty of truth in captain's tecate-infused prose.

Sprool

there is too much c@#p talked about training where there is no real need. to cycle faster/ longer, try pedalling faster for longer. everything else is marketing hype imho, that is

I think there's a lot of truth in this. I have turned round a period of redundancy to have enough free time to get a lot fitter, buy a nice entry-level road bike and go off exploring the great countryside we have around here. Having time on my hands to ride an hour or two every day (in decent weather) I have got fitter than I have been in many years, and lost a stone in weight. I think the initial benefits are a steep curve, now its starting to tail off, I want the weight loss and increased fitness to continue improving. Wnem I'm back at work at end of Nov its going to be a lot harder to maintain the miles so I need to use the time as well as possible. Mind you, an hours un-optimised training on the wrong zones is still a lot better than an evening sitting in front of the tv.

t.m.h.n.e.t

poynedexter wrote:

Sprool wrote:

My goals are:
1) Improve general fitness
2) further weight loss
3) Be in good shape to ride a few 100k sportives next Spring.

to achieve your goals you dont need to "train".

1. just ride your bike
2. eat less calories
3. see #1. its 60miles and not a race.

as a side note. there is too much c@#p talked about training where there is no real need. to cycle faster/ longer, try pedalling faster for longer. everything else is marketing hype imho, that is

Based on what?

poynedexter

BASED on what i have done myself, which is eat healthily but cut down a lot of sugary/fatty high/ calorie stufflike chocolate crisps biscuits lucozade sport (whilst cycling), gels, protein suplements.......

result about 17lb loss in 12months. i initially "trained" without adjusting my diet and lost no weight then made a few eating changes and lost the weight at about 1 lb per week.

ps i had been at my starting weight for about 20 yrs and have always done regular exercise.

t.m.h.n.e.t

You nor I know how much the op consumes. Advising to eat less before knowing that is stupid and outright reckless

poynedexter

T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:

You nor I know how much the op consumes. Advising to eat less before knowing that is stupid and outright reckless

well the OP did say he wanted to lose weight, so i'm kinda putting 2 & 2 together. i dont see that advive as reckless or stupid.

t.m.h.n.e.t

Yeah nobody sees it. You don't have a clue what the OP's intake is,therefore advice given cannot be "eat less"

Trev The Rev

T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:

Yeah nobody sees it. You don't have a clue what the OP's intake is,therefore advice given cannot be "eat less"

Here you are again. Spoiling.

t.m.h.n.e.t

Trev The Rev wrote:

T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:

Yeah nobody sees it. You don't have a clue what the OP's intake is,therefore advice given cannot be "eat less"

Here you are again. Spoiling.

Care to offer any explanation as to how or why I am wrong? Or are you just going to follow me around and mindlessly babble on?

Trev The Rev

T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:

Trev The Rev wrote:

T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:

Yeah nobody sees it. You don't have a clue what the OP's intake is,therefore advice given cannot be "eat less"

Here you are again. Spoiling.

Care to offer any explanation as to how or why I am wrong? Or are you just going to follow me around and mindlessly babble on?

Not saying you are wrong only that you are spoiling the thread.

t.m.h.n.e.t

Silly me. I forgot being factually correct automatically ruins threads.

In future I'll make sure to be as confusing as possible. I might even fake my own death.

Sprool

So much squabbling over my waist line. I don't know whether to be flattered or disturbed.
I have cut down on fatty foods a lot. I've lost nearly a stone in 10 weeks, could do with losing another 5 or 6 lbs, maybe cutting down on the beer and wine would help that. Maybe going back to that 5:2 diet skipping lunch on a tues & thurs wouldn't do me any harm.
I've got far fitter in the past 10 weeks than I have been for a long long time and I want that to continue though I'm not about to get into overtraining territory or enter any races. Been riding 60 to 80 miles a week since Sept, once happy with 10 - 15 miles, now I don't feel fulfilled unless I've done 30.
What seems to make best sense to me is to mix up the cycling effort on road and rollers, doing some longer lower impact stuff at the weekends and doing some more strenuous but shorter rides in between.

moonshine

Trev The Rev wrote:

Not saying you are wrong only that you are spoiling the thread.

Fxxx me, but this is the pot calling the kettle black! Trev, you make it a mission to spoil threads..... Are you annoyed someone else got in before you!

Pigtail

I think its easy to overthink the training thing. I've been improving steadily, if not spectacularly, by working hard and pushing myself. I try to do over 100 miles a week. In the summer I tended to do 4-5 rides a week, often working on speed. Until after Christmas I intend to do longer distances at slightly slower pace, with possibly only 2 rides per week. I'm still hoping to do 100 miles a week, with at least one of the rides being a metric century. So I'm looking at cutting back average speed slightly, but doing at least one ride of over 3 hours as 'base training.'

I may well add in a couple of early morning gym sessions a week and I have a very short commute every day with some occasional work miles thrown in, so it won't mean I don't exercise more than twice a week, just that the impetus will have shifted from 90 minutes close to flat out to 180 minute plus slightly slower for my main effort.

These hugely complicated training plans work for pros or top level amateurs, but for somebody like me, older with family commitments my cycling is always going to involve compromises around family and work. Dont get me wrong I want to do well. I took up TTs last year and showed a reasonable improvement over the season and I want to take that further next year, but I'm going to hit limits from how much time I can give before I hit my absolute genetic limits.

joe.90

displacedaussie wrote:

This is still one of my favourite posts about training: http://captaintbag.tumblr.com/post/2133 ... city-farce

Plenty of truth in captain's tecate-infused prose.

for some reason this really irritates me. its stupid and not at all funny.

i wanna punch that captain guy in the face! ha ha