How good are cat 2s?

whojanicanackerov

Ring lance and maybe he will sort you out!

Crispyapp

Hi I used to race as a 2nd cat and yes the races are generally quick however everybody's style is different. Because he's a 2nd cat it doesn't mean he will be any good on climbs, it does however mean he would easily be able to sit on your wheel and probably stay there all day.

I'm heavier than my pals I ride with each week and cannot keep up on the climbs but as soon as the road levels off no matter how tired I might have been I can sit on the front and turn a gear where I start opening a gap. The only fair way for this race to go ahead would be to find some level ground between you both and go from there.

Take cavendish for example, he's the fastest man on the planet in a sprint, however put him in a mountain range and he useless.

crikey

You will get beaten like a ginger step child.

Monty Dog

You might be lucky, he could be a circuit-race specialist who hoovers-up points in winter series events and then you don't see them again until September...But anyone who thinks getting gold-standard in a sportive is akin to racing is likely to get whumped ;-).

BridlingtonBiker

Challenge him to a race up Chimney Bank if he's a tubby lad.

DavidJB

We're awesome of course!

marshy01uk

lol "...and his bike isn't as good" I cycle with a guy who still goes out on his 15 year old steel framed downtube non index geared Ribble and still gives most of the guys a pasting and we're no slouches. Don't be fooled by the bike it's the engine that counts.
Being a 2nd CAT he is obviously a decent rider and as previously suggested he may be able to hang a wheel well (we have one of them in our Sunday ride group, you know the type that never does a turn but will sprint and get to the cafe stop first ). Seriously though racing is more than having speed, guys who race regularly are very "race" savy and astute....
Waiting with interest in how you get on.....good luck!

mallorcajeff

I will have a tenner on the race not happening.

TakeTurns

Book yourself an appointment with Dr.Ferrari, job done.

Paul 8v

If he's that good it might be a good learning experience at least!

racingcondor

JoeBond wrote:

Theres this bloke at work who reckons he’s a bit handy on a bike

He was right .

As others have said. Do it, expect to get owned and take it with good grace. As others have said, depending on the route you might even win.

Once you've done that I'd make friends with him and get on his training rides. Best way to improve, ride with people better than you.

Oh and. Drink less beer .

navrig

Grow some sideburns and when they are bushy enough ask Wiggo to stand in for you. The other bloke wont notice.

Monty Dog

Is this akin to the "Cav can't climb" analogy cos he's a "sprinter" when in reality, Cav would drop most Elite / 1st cat riders with ease - just that he's relatively 'rubbish' at climbing compared to his peers?

amaferanga

Crispyapp wrote:

Take cavendish for example, he's the fastest man on the planet in a sprint, however put him in a mountain range and he useless.

That's not quite right. It's relative. He's far from a useless climber compared to >99% of the cycling population.

MrSweary

Whatever happens please ensure that someone is filming at both the start and the finish... we await a youtube link

Crispyapp

amaferanga wrote:

Crispyapp wrote:

Take cavendish for example, he's the fastest man on the planet in a sprint, however put him in a mountain range and he useless.

That's not quite right. It's relative. He's far from a useless climber compared to >99% of the cycling population.

Monty Dog wrote:

Is this akin to the "Cav can't climb" analogy cos he's a "sprinter" when in reality, Cav would drop most Elite / 1st cat riders with ease - just that he's relatively 'rubbish' at climbing compared to his peers?

I knew this would come up after I'd posted it..... Yes quite clearly he's not a crap climber, he won the green jersey in the tour which clearly takes climbing as well as sprinting into account. And yes he would most probably destroy 99% of our elite riders your right.
What I mean is if this guy is gonna race a 2nd cat it has to be on mutual ground. You can't say I'm gonna race him on a hill and kick his ass cos I'm a great climber. Already he would have a disadvantage if he's not a good climber. The only true way to tell would be a time trial.
Cavendish wouldn't stand a chance racing contador up alpe du huez would he and visa a versa down the champs Élysées ... You get my point. I hope.

rolf_f

You have one hope. Get him to agree to him not knowing what the race is until the day. Get yourself a mountain bike and fit it with slicks. Watch your Cat 2 arrive with his standard crankset and 11-25 cassette.

The test is 10 times up and down Hardknott Pass. Neither of you will complete it but there's just a chance that he'll die before he finishes - all you need to do is keep going longer.

chrisaonabike

Rolf F wrote:

The test is 10 times up and down Hardknott Pass. Neither of you will complete it but there's just a chance that he'll die before he finishes

I practically die just thinking about it. I can barely drive it, let alone ride it.

cougie

Brilliant story.

I'd challenge him to a 10m TT. Enter an open event next year. That way you'll not have to race him for very long and you might not even get overtaken by him (depending on how they seed it). And there's always the chance that he may puncture. Which I think is the only chance you have. He will kick your arse on a hilly sportif I bet and you won't see him for dust.

mamba80

JoeBond wrote:

Beacuse he’s heavier than me and his bike isn’t as good. I can do a gold standard sportive.

Well...what about YOU? ex pro? former Elite rider perhaps? maybe it wont be quite as one sided as others have suggested

oldwelshman

Crispyapp wrote:

Hi I used to race as a 2nd cat and yes the races are generally quick however everybody's style is different. Because he's a 2nd cat it doesn't mean he will be any good on climbs, it does however mean he would easily be able to sit on your wheel and probably stay there all day.

I'm heavier than my pals I ride with each week and cannot keep up on the climbs but as soon as the road levels off no matter how tired I might have been I can sit on the front and turn a gear where I start opening a gap. The only fair way for this race to go ahead would be to find some level ground between you both and go from there.

Take cavendish for example, he's the fastest man on the planet in a sprint, however put him in a mountain range and he useless.

Bit of a bad comparrison that, depends what your meauring Cav against.
If you put him against domestic pros he would outclimb all of them.
Put him against Wiggo, Contador and Froome and yes he may not do so well but to say he is useless shows your lack of knowledge :-) Did he not win Milan San Remo also? Recall there being a bump in that to and some pretty good riders in that also. Maybe the op should challenge Cav?

kieranb

So what are these races he's won? Gold standard on a sportive is a bit vague as for some sportives that is a real challenge on others it is not. If you are used to doing long rides you may have the endurance to keep a fairly high speed up constantly, the 2nd cat may be 2nd cat due to superior recovery from numerous maximal efforts during a race but long distance endurance might not be much better, especially if he makes max use of bunch riding and you do solo efforts on the sportive. If you enter a proper road race no question he'll beat you though.

dmclite-3.0

Yep, I got the best time on the Romney Marsh sportive a couple of years ago, but got a kicking in Cat 3/4 races in the Serrl league the same year. Pick a short sportive, 60 miles or so and give it a go. Also train like a Bastardo until the event and downplay your prep to him, psy-war rules.

ad_snow

Come on OP, is there an update to this? Must have been a week since the drinking session

ozzzyosborn206

I am 2nd cat and if someone who has done a few sportives challenged me to a race i think i would be quite confident in being able to ride away from him......unless the sportives he had done were in Italy where by the sounds of it they a rock hard, it will be a good laugh regardless, have you searched him on BC website to see where he got his points? if you race every week at Hillingdon or similar it would be dead easy to rack up 100+ points

leepez

ad_snow wrote:

Come on OP, is there an update to this? Must have been a week since the drinking session

He must have one hell of a hangover

racingcondor

ozzzyosborn206 wrote:

If you race every week at Hillingdon or similar it would be dead easy to rack up 100+ points.

Easy on my ego Ozzy!

Yours, crit racing London based 3rd Cat

vorsprung

amaferanga wrote:

Before I started racing properly I did a few sportives. I was quickest in one and about 6th quickest in the other. I started racing that year and I was sh!t compared to even an average 3rd Cat.

Sportive rider against a 2nd Cat is a bit like a 2nd Cat against an Elite. No contest really. That is unless you're actually a gifted cyclist who could be a 2nd Cat or better yourself.

I have to agree. Last summer I was in reasonable state and decided to do a 25 mile TT with my club. I don't normally TT. Everyone beat me except the two women and the 70 year old bloke.

JoeBond

Hi all. Update is this.
Weve discussed our race at work and my opponent says that a sportive isn’t a race!
But he agrees that it might be difficult for us to get in the same race because I don’t have a licnese yet so organisers might not accept me and we would be in different races anyaway in a crit. So he very generously says I can practice if I want and do the race later in the year.
But…
I am thinking though that a time trial will be better. Consensus on here is that I will get thrashed in a road race. This also seems to be the view of everyone else I know, including all of my cycling friends!
I’ve never done a TT either. What distance do you guys think would give me the best chance?

LegendLust

JoeBond wrote:

Hi all. Update is this.
Weve discussed our race at work and my opponent says that a sportive isn’t a race!
But he agrees that it might be difficult for us to get in the same race because I don’t have a licnese yet so organisers might not accept me and we would be in different races anyaway in a crit. So he very generously says I can practice if I want and do the race later in the year.
But…
I am thinking though that a time trial will be better. Consensus on here is that I will get thrashed in a road race. This also seems to be the view of everyone else I know, including all of my cycling friends!
I’ve never done a TT either. What distance do you guys think would give me the best chance?

First of all he's right. A sportive isn't a race.

As I posted before, a 10mm TT would be the race of truth. Your opponent should know a local club 10 course, which more than likely will be a bit more 'sporting' in course profile (might have a hill in it!). Providing it's an out and back course, Just get a mate to turn up, set you off 5 mins within each other, mate goes to official finish line and records the times. Simple.