Planet X and problems with service?

Jontyallan

Hi

I recently bought a RT57 bike from Planet X which seemed like a massive bargain. Ok the wheels and brakeset are not the best, but the bike ride well. After only 2 months, and only 500 miles, the bottom bracket bearings packed up. LBS told me they were neither fitted badly, or faulty. He also told me that the frame tolerance was not the best, which meant they were maybe not as tight as they should be. Big deal I thought, I will get them replaced ( I needed the bike for a planned ride that weekend). Now, after god knows how many calls to PX and emails galore, they have got back to me to tell me that BBs are general wear and tear, and not covered. What!!??! My old Ali bike which gets all the wet rides and done over 10000 miles is still going strong and the new bike after 2 months, and low miles packs up, and it was something other than defective goods?

I have found PX very sloppy (my original order arrived without the pedals and bottle cages imp ordered at the same time) and rather unwilling to help me with the above problem. What is going on here? I had heard hey were pretty good, but I have found them super awful. Has anyone else had problems, or am I just unlucky? I can't be bothered to argue with them anymore, maybe that is what they count on....

mike6

I have used them before and they were good, but 500 miles from a bottom bracket?? No way.
Get back on to them and explain the position and I feel sure they will respond properly.
If not, dont use them again, vote with your feet, but also write or email them letting them know you will not use them again, and the reason why.

diy

Template letter here:
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi- ... 6-1011.txt

It is within the time period for it to be deemed faulty at the point of sale. The obligation would be on them to prove otherwise. Not merely make an assertion. If they wont repair you can reject the whole bike.

I was thinking of buying some wheels from them, maybe I will think again.

flasher

Not really very good customer service tbh. but they only have your word for doing only 500 miles and much like a car moving parts aren't generally covered by warranty.

However I would have thought given the bikes only a couple of months old, that they could have given you something towards a new BB.

I think your bikes got BB30, I believe that there have been all sorts of issues with installation, bearings etc.....

cougie

I think you may be unlucky. I've had 2 bikes off them and lots more kyit - no problems and my BB's are still fine.
You haven't jetwashed it have you ?

amaferanga

I think with Planet X it depends very much on which member of staff is dealing with you. Some are very good, other's not so good. My experiences have been mostly very good and I've bought 2 bikes and a frame from them as well as bits and pieces.

amaferanga

Jontyallan wrote:

HLBS told me they were neither fitted badly, or faulty. He also told me that the frame tolerance was not the best, which meant they were maybe not as tight as they should be.

LBS that sell premium brands often like to look down there noses at Planet X and sprout nonsense like this.

Jim C

Consistently very good bikes. And wheels. And bargains

Service faultless for us. Visiting in person is even better

Bb 30 is a bit flawed. My son has an rt57, which is outstanding. Its on its 2nd lot of bb bearings. We get them from the local bearing supplier for a couple of quid each. Not worth rejecting a great frame for that. But that might just be me

mcp73

I have an RT57 also. I bought just frame and fork. I use my Hollowtech Shimano cranks which aren't BB30. I run an adapter through the bottom bracket which has external bearings. I didn't fancy the idea of having to buy a new BB30 crank and bearings. I know it may not help your particular issue here, but if you do have any Shimano or other 24mm cranks, you can avoid having to use BB30 bearings and run an adapter. Mine's been fine for nearly 4000 miles.

diy

Flasher wrote:

Not really very good customer service tbh. but they only have your word for doing only 500 miles and much like a car moving parts aren't generally covered by warranty.

However I would have thought given the bikes only a couple of months old, that they could have given you something towards a new BB.

I think your bikes got BB30, I believe that there have been all sorts of issues with installation, bearings etc.....

Your first point is not relevant, this is not about warranty.. your second is along the right lines.

when a consumer returns goods in the first six months from the date of the sale, and requests a repair or replacement or, thereafter, a partial or full refund. In that case, the consumer does not have to prove the goods were faulty at the time of the sale. It is assumed that they were. If the retailer does not agree, it is for him to prove that the goods were satisfactory at the time of sale.

http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN02239.pdf
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002 ... ion/9/made

flasher

diy wrote:

Flasher wrote:

Not really very good customer service tbh. but they only have your word for doing only 500 miles and much like a car moving parts aren't generally covered by warranty.

However I would have thought given the bikes only a couple of months old, that they could have given you something towards a new BB.

I think your bikes got BB30, I believe that there have been all sorts of issues with installation, bearings etc.....

Your first point is not relevant, this is not about warranty.. your second is along the right lines.

when a consumer returns goods in the first six months from the date of the sale, and requests a repair or replacement or, thereafter, a partial or full refund. In that case, the consumer does not have to prove the goods were faulty at the time of the sale. It is assumed that they were. If the retailer does not agree, it is for him to prove that the goods were satisfactory at the time of sale.

http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN02239.pdf
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002 ... ion/9/made

I shall be sure to pass all my posts onto you for fact checking before I post in future :roll:

Ricey83

My Brother has a Planet X bike and he had a bit of trouble due the bike being delivered with the incorrect Chain set and they wouldn't replace it but they did give him a heavy discount on a pair of carbon wheels.

symo

Bought

A titianium bike - Not an issue
A pair of wheels - Minor issue - dealt with
Lots of bits and pieces no problem.

I generally have only experienced bad customer service from a couple of companies and PX are not one of them.

Monty Dog

OP -- either or neither? Makes a difference. If the bike has been ridden 500 miles in the rain, then likely that cheapy BB30 bearings have given-out. Not a huge cost to replace.
I don't believe you'll find bearings covered by warranty unless they were defective. Corrosion and wear due to water ingress is a user, not manufacturer issue.
Likewise you want discount prices and top dollar service, perhaps too high expectations?

Ginjafro

I can't fault the bikes and spares I have received from PX over the years but communications with PX have been patchy and inconsistent, which is both disappointing and frustrating. For example, I emailed them recently about a technical issue but never received a reply, yet on other occasions they were very prompt and helpful. On a point of vanity and pride I submitted my recently built RT-57 to their website's "Readers Rides" some three weeks ago. For my trouble I got a voucher code for a PX beanie next time I spend some money with them (and proof the jpegs and write up got through). PX claim they will post online any submissions after vetting within a day or so. However, despite 3 emails (and no clarification as to whether or not they have or approve my pics) they have still not got round to posting my ride online. Trivial maybe but perhaps indicative of the patchy and inconsistent service I and maybe others have received lately.

Good communications is always highly regarded when dealing with any business or organisation.

diy

Flasher wrote:

I shall be sure to pass all my posts onto you for fact checking before I post in future :roll:

Sorry that my post was a bit pointy, it's just that time is on the OPs side. Generally logic and common sense, is a good guide, but with consumer law it's very much balanced in the consumers favour for the first six months at least.

Also the op purchased a bicycle not a bb, a good trick of retailers is to focus on the part that is faulty as it can help their argument. But the legal remedy is for the whole bike.

Jontyallan

Thanks all. The thing that bums me out is the assumption that I was not telling the truth. I have had a lot of bikes in the 25 years I have been riding, and the BB hardly ever fails. Even if I had done a 100 miles a day, after 2 months, I would not expect this to happen. Anyway, the amount to fix was trivial, however, I would like some sort of acknowledgement from PX that this is below par, that's all. Every time I called they told me to do something different, then told me this was not covered under warranty. Pah, ! I like the bike, but now am worried I am going to spend the whole time fixing things which should just work. When will companies in the UK wake up to the fact that price is quite often secondary to service? I am not American, but the US seems to know this. By he way, I didn't buy the bike because of price, I bought it as it had good reviews. Maybe I should have bought the Cannondale or Canyon....

gloomyandy

Not sure if all of your contact with planet x have been via mail/phone or in person. If not in person I wonder if the outcome would have been different if it had been? I've purchased a couple of bikes from them and with the second I had problems with the cassette moving on the freehub. The bike had been a showroom sale bike and the problem became apparent after 3 months or so. I called in to the sheffield store and they said leave it with us for a few hours. Called in four hours later and they gave me the wheel back with an extra spacer fitted to solve the problem, all with no charge. I may have been lucky but all of my dealings with them have been pleasant and very satisfactory...

Hope you get things sorted.

Ber Nard

diy wrote:

when a consumer returns goods in the first six months from the date of the sale, and requests a repair or replacement or, thereafter, a partial or full refund. In that case, the consumer does not have to prove the goods were faulty at the time of the sale. It is assumed that they were. If the retailer does not agree, it is for him to prove that the goods were satisfactory at the time of sale.

Wouldn't that fact that the bearings, and therefore the bike, lasted 2 months or 500 miles be the PX's proof? Genuine question; I don't know a lot about these things.

It surely then comes down to arguing "fair usage" and "wear and tear" and I wouldn't agree that it is reasonable to expect no more than 500 miles from a pair of bearings but this is a grey area.

For the cost of some bearings I'm surprised they are even arguing. Unless they know of a reason why the next lot may only last 500 miles.

Rob

howards

Jontyallan wrote:

I have had a lot of bikes in the 25 years I have been riding, and the BB hardly ever fails. Even if I had done a 100 miles a day, after 2 months, I would not expect this to happen. Anyway, the amount to fix was trivial

If the frame is BB30 - and the specs seem to say so - and it chewed through a pair of bearings in 500 miles, it's possible it will chew through the next set in 500 miles. Keep an eye on it. If it gets very wet make sure there's no water rolling about in the bottom bracket shell. It's not like square taper or even outboard - it's very sensitive to moisture, frame tolerance and care.

If it does chew through the next set the frame needs to go back to PX.

diy

@ber nard - a county court judge will take a rather more simplistic view. Would a reasonable person expect a bike costing £1000+ to last two months before it failed? They won't care about the technicalities for a claim of this size, but if the retailer wants to argue their case they will order an expert review which given the timing will be at the retailers expense. It will be for this expert to determine if the failure was user error/abuse or a fault. Now it could well be user error, e.g. Failure to tighten adjust something etc. but the burden is on the retailer to prove this.

In law given the timing it is looked at at bit like this. It failed, it's faulty prove its my fault. After 6 months the burden switches, it failed, prove its not your fault.

General comment. The reason the retailer is giving different advice is because they are hoping that you will eat the cost of the bb they can go another 4 months and you have a much harder claim.

If I was me I'd have rejected the whole bike and then seen if they were willing to come to te table with an offer.

manxmatt

I bought a set of wheels from them. The rear wheel buckled immediately as I went down the road had it re-trued.
After this rear wheel made awful noise, consulted Planet X who advised me to oil and clean the joins on the spokes? Did this noise reduced slightly. Then last Sunday spoke broke and wheel totally knackered after just using normally, 2 e-mails sent no reply. Not impressed at the mo!

StrangelyBrown

Have to say I've been very impressed with the recent service I've had from PX. Had a major problem with a very expensive set of DT Swiss wheels I bought from them. Although they were bought over a year ago they accepted my position about fit for purpose etc vs the cost and have warrantied them for me.

It has taken a while to get to the resolution, so be prepared to argue your case, but they took it seriously and ultimately provided excellent service - praise where it's due. It really restored my faith in them and I would happily use them again for a big purchase.

diy

I think this is the case for most retailers - where they can back off your claim back to the distributor/manufacturer they will be more accepting. Where they can't the will argue the toss.

Its normally where consumer rights overrule their contracts with their suppliers that they argue, because typically they have obligations to the consumer which they cannot recover from their supplier.

MountainMonster

diy wrote:

@ber nard - a county court judge will take a rather more simplistic view. Would a reasonable person expect a bike costing £1000+ to last two months before it failed? They won't care about the technicalities for a claim of this size, but if the retailer wants to argue their case they will order an expert review which given the timing will be at the retailers expense. It will be for this expert to determine if the failure was user error/abuse or a fault. Now it could well be user error, e.g. Failure to tighten adjust something etc. but the burden is on the retailer to prove this.

In law given the timing it is looked at at bit like this. It failed, it's faulty prove its my fault. After 6 months the burden switches, it failed, prove its not your fault.

General comment. The reason the retailer is giving different advice is because they are hoping that you will eat the cost of the bb they can go another 4 months and you have a much harder claim.

If I was me I'd have rejected the whole bike and then seen if they were willing to come to te table with an offer.

The bike hasn't failed, the BB did. bB30 is known for failing, so to buy it and then complain, especially at the sake of 15 or 20 pound, is pretty sad. I'm glad I've never had you come in and act like this.

diy

In which case replace it when the customer complains rather than try to fob them off. LBS, can probably do it for <£10 cost.

If its not fit for purpose then don't sell it.

MountainMonster

diy wrote:

In which case replace it when the customer complains rather than try to fob them off. LBS, can probably do it for <£10 cost.

If its not fit for purpose then don't sell it.

People seem to say not fit for purpose for every tiny little problem, no matter how little cost it would take them to rectify. While not fixing it was not good service, the customer also has a bit of responsibility to research their products they are buying, and if problems are known be willing to rectify them at some small outlay. If I looked online and reviewed a computer, just as a random example, and I found out there are often problems with the fan, but the rest of the computer is top notch, I'd rather just pay for a new fan at a small outlay for an extra product. Either that, or don't buy the computer in the first place.

All I'm saying is if everyone knows BB30 are still not 100% perfect but still buyit, I don't think it is really fair to go back saying the whole bike is not fit for purpose and shouting a bunch of law jumbo jumbo at them. If they won't replace the BB, tough luck. It costs £10 and you just save yourself a huge headache.

diy

That approach could be very expensive for the retailer in the long rung. Since it is a defence that has very little chance of success. With regard to legal mumbo jumbo, I'd say anyone who works in retail and deals with customers would be wise to read up on the basics.

An error such as you are making could cost you/your employer £50-£465 in court fees on top of whatever the court awarded. Plus at least 1 day off work preparing for the hearing (assuming you'd actually do some prep) and if you really wanted to waste your money the cost of commissioning an independant report.

MountainMonster

I'm speaking from a customer side,not the business side, mate. All I'm saying, £10 is not a large outlay if it saves you a large chunk of time. I'd much rather pay that then have to chase the company around and waste more time, which in end result will probably be just new bearings. Is a few hours effort really worth it over bearings?

diy

I don't have any BB30 stuff, but if it is as you say, it sounds like replacing the BB is just treating the symptoms not the cause. So are we looking at 20-30 quid every few months? sounds like a right PITA.

MountainMonster

diy wrote:

I don't have any BB30 stuff, but if it is as you say, it sounds like replacing the BB is just treating the symptoms not the cause. So are we looking at 20-30 quid every few months? sounds like a right PITA.

The problems seems to have been from factory ones, at least as far as I know. Normally the problem goes away after a change in bearings/bb model.