Wiggins - National Disappointment

adr82

steerpike wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

it's about being human, having human frailties and sometimes making mistakes, often in stressful situations that the vast majority of us will never find outselves in.

Clearly something that some of the people here have mastered.

oh sure, I'm all for sportsmen having frailties - it's what often what makes them appealing. But I'm starting to tire of Wiggins petulance.

Unless you can somehow prove you'd cope better than he has in the same situation (which I doubt), I think you should be prepared to give him a bit of leeway. This time last year he was a virtual unknown to most of the UK public, it's a big change to go from that to being one of the most recognisable people in the country. If he keeps making trouble for himself 5 years down the line then you might have a point, but for now I think you should be willing to overlook the occasional incident like this (which as I've said was trivial anyway).

Drumlin

adr82 wrote:

If he keeps making trouble for himself 5 years down the line then you might have a point, but for now I think you should be willing to overlook the occasional incident like this (which as I've said was trivial anyway).

If this was a one off, and/or if he was a young and inexperienced rider, fair enough. But he's 32, he's been competing at top Olympic level since Sydney, and this is far from being a one off. Think back to his outburst during the Tour. He's old and experienced enough to know better and frankly, the cycling audience deserve better.

steerpike

adr82 wrote:

steerpike wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

it's about being human, having human frailties and sometimes making mistakes, often in stressful situations that the vast majority of us will never find outselves in.

Clearly something that some of the people here have mastered.

oh sure, I'm all for sportsmen having frailties - it's what often what makes them appealing. But I'm starting to tire of Wiggins petulance.

Unless you can somehow prove you'd cope better than he has in the same situation (which I doubt), I think you should be prepared to give him a bit of leeway. This time last year he was a virtual unknown to most of the UK public, it's a big change to go from that to being one of the most recognisable people in the country. If he keeps making trouble for himself 5 years down the line then you might have a point, but for now I think you should be willing to overlook the occasional incident like this (which as I've said was trivial anyway).

I'm pretty quick, but I don't think I'll have the chance to prove or disprove your theory any time soon! You make fair points in the main though I'm inclined to say he's had enough time to start to adjust. It just pains me that this kind of behaviour may give fuel to the motor lobby fire who certainly won't give him any of the slack that he may deserve. I like the guy, I really do, I just feel he needs to stop lashing out. That's it really.

clanton

steerpike wrote:

It's not sanctimonious nonsense. The OP is deliberately OTT and inflammatory. We have a right to expect better. Being a top sports star carries some resposibility. Wiggins effectively says: "I'll take the plaudits, bit don't expect me to start acting with any dignity or maturity anytime soon because I am who I am." Sorry, that's not good enough. Quite aside from the 'role model for kids' argument, he is now the most high profile cyclist the country has ever had.

So, how frustrating that every rabid petrolhead gets a pic of Wiggins flicking the bird on the front of their redtop? It's hardly helping the pro-cycling agenda.

He doesn't have to be a spokesman, he doesn't even have to be a role model if he doesn't want to - he could just learn to carry himself with a little more dignity and stop lashing out at the inevitable, predictable media interest.

+1. nail - head.

Gavin Cook

Why are you disappointed ? He was giving the finger to a photographer who had probably been hounding him and not to his fans or general public.

adr82

Drumlin wrote:

adr82 wrote:

If he keeps making trouble for himself 5 years down the line then you might have a point, but for now I think you should be willing to overlook the occasional incident like this (which as I've said was trivial anyway).

If this was a one off, and/or if he was a young and inexperienced rider, fair enough. But he's 32, he's been competing at top Olympic level since Sydney, and this is far from being a one off. Think back to his outburst during the Tour. He's old and experienced enough to know better and frankly, the cycling audience deserve better.

What outburst? The one where he swore a few times after being asked about drug use? That was even less noteworthy than this was! I think it makes people more interesting when they don't go to great lengths to preserve a squeaky clean butter-wouldn't-melt-in-my-mouth public image, because 99 times out of 100 that's not who they actually are and it just makes them seem bland and boring.

I have no idea by what you mean when you say "the cycling audience deserve better". Not everyone who follows cycling chooses to be so deeply offended by relatively innocuous incidents like this, and unless you're paying his wages I fail to see how you "deserve" anything from him!

steerpike

adr82 wrote:

Drumlin wrote:

adr82 wrote:

If he keeps making trouble for himself 5 years down the line then you might have a point, but for now I think you should be willing to overlook the occasional incident like this (which as I've said was trivial anyway).

If this was a one off, and/or if he was a young and inexperienced rider, fair enough. But he's 32, he's been competing at top Olympic level since Sydney, and this is far from being a one off. Think back to his outburst during the Tour. He's old and experienced enough to know better and frankly, the cycling audience deserve better.

What outburst? The one where he swore a few times after being asked about drug use? That was even less noteworthy than this was! I think it makes people more interesting when they don't go to great lengths to preserve a squeaky clean butter-wouldn't-melt-in-my-mouth public image, because 99 times out of 100 that's not who they actually are and it just makes them seem bland and boring.

I have no idea by what you mean when you say "the cycling audience deserve better". Not everyone who follows cycling chooses to be so deeply offended by relatively innocuous incidents like this, and unless you're paying his wages I fail to see how you "deserve" anything from him!

Now your starting to sound like a hoodwinked fan boy. Look, it was wonderful to see Mr Wiggins win the tour - utterly wonderful. It was also a shame to see him respond with his foul mouthed rant at the tour - it doesn't have to be love or hate / black or white. If you think he's 'charismatic' for chucking a few C words around in the public domain then that's a sorry definition of charisma. It is possible to be angry and mantain some dignity.

As for him only being accountable to those who pay his wages? That's plain poppycock. Like football, or any sport for that matter, the fans *are* the sport.

Now I'd be the last person to suggest we hold footballers up as examples of rounded sportsmen, but can you imagine if Steven Gerrard had called football fans ' a bunch of c***s'?? He'd be signing his own death warrant.

flasher

Gavin Cook wrote:

Why are you disappointed ? He was giving the finger to a photographer who had probably been hounding him and not to his fans or general public.

How do the public get their information?

Quite how was the photographer hounding him, Wiggins, multiple Olympic medal and TdF winner gets knocked off his bike, spends the night in hospital, photographer gets sent to his house to get a pic, Wiggins flicks him the finger!

On another occasion Wiggins could well have got out of the car had a few words for the waiting press and posed happily for a pic, 5 mins out of his busy schedule. He's a paid professional sportsman and should behave as such, whether he likes it or not.

okgo

The English public, damned if you do, damned if you don't, a country jammed packed with absolute morons.

Allez Wiggo, I'd rather an actual personality rather than another poxy footballer who "did it for the lads today" who "takes one game at a time" bore off.

steerpike

okgo wrote:

The English public, damned if you do, damned if you don't, a country jammed packed with absolute morons.

Allez Wiggo, I'd rather an actual personality rather than another poxy footballer who "did it for the lads today" who "takes one game at a time" bore off.

Oh absolutely - quite the polar opposites of the erudite, urbane and witty Mr Wiggins!!

That said, yes - Allez Wiggo indeed. He's still a hero. Just feel his slack is starting to be used up pretty quick now.

okgo

He doesn't give a flying fuck about his slack, why should he, he isn't paid to be a PR, he's paid to win races, its painfully obvious that he wants none of the celebrity that goes with being the best in the world at something, just wants to get the job done, can't argue with that. I hate this expectation that celebs owe us something (classic English mentality, a country of people who think the world owes them something and general sense of entitlement, not surprising it extends to things like this), like they HAVE to behave like an angel 24/7, bollocks, they're people too, and the last thing anyone wants when they've just avoided a career ending incident is some fuckwit from the Sun shoving a camera in his face.

steerpike

Wake up - he's paid to do significantly more than 'win races' these days. You want top cyclists to be as lauded as other top sportsmen? Start behaving accordingly.

That he doesn't want to be a celebrity is to be applauded.

Our sport has been something of an oddity to this nation until this point. Opinions of cyclists and cycling WILL be formed by his behaviour, whether he likes it or not, whether this is fair or not. Sorry Wiggo, it comes with the territory of being The Best Cyclist in the World.

Continuing to put up a big F-CK YOU sign to the world doesn't help people understand his almighty achievements and it does nothing to help raise our status on the roads of the UK.

steerpike

anyway, this is boring the $hit out of me now. bye.

jezzpalmer

Perhaps the thread can be renamed, Wiggins -Disappointment to prudes and Daily Mail readers?

Fair reaction from him IMO, though ill conceived and should be avoided in future to prevent the needless furore it creates.

I expect it's wiggle's fault though, especially if it turns out he didn't have lights on his bike; the forum trolls and Twitter tw@s will love that.

adr82

steerpike wrote:

Now your starting to sound like a hoodwinked fan boy. Look, it was wonderful to see Mr Wiggins win the tour - utterly wonderful. It was also a shame to see him respond with his foul mouthed rant at the tour - it doesn't have to be love or hate / black or white. If you think he's 'charismatic' for chucking a few C words around in the public domain then that's a sorry definition of charisma. It is possible to be angry and mantain some dignity.

Oh boy. Please point out where I said that's the definition of charismatic? Or you could simply stop putting words in my mouth. It might help make him more charismatic than a typical don't-say-anything-without-checking-with-PR celebrity, but it's hardly the only requirement!

Would his strong anti-doping views have got anything like the attention they did if he'd gone off and consulted with the Sky PR team before opening his mouth and spouting something entirely predictable and boring that we've heard hundreds of times before? No, of course they wouldn't.

steerpike wrote:

As for him only being accountable to those who pay his wages? That's plain poppycock. Like football, or any sport for that matter, the fans *are* the sport.

Yes yes we all know that cliche. It still doesn't mean you as a fan are entitled to anything from the people who are actually participating. You might think you are, but that's irrelevant.

steerpike wrote:

Now I'd be the last person to suggest we hold footballers up as examples of rounded sportsmen, but can you imagine if Steven Gerrard had called football fans ' a bunch of c***s'?? He'd be signing his own death warrant.

That's not even close to what Wiggins did IIRC - the "c*nts" outburst was directed at people who were implying that the only way he'd been able to perform as he had was through doping. I can understand that - in his new book there's a bit where he explains it to a journalist as feeling the same way as someone telling you that your kids aren't your own. I can understand how he feels about it and it certainly wasn't a general "f*ck you" to all cycling fans. Why would he do that?

steerpike wrote:

Our sport has been something of an oddity to this nation until this point. Opinions of cyclists and cycling WILL be formed by his behaviour, whether he likes it or not, whether this is fair or not. Sorry Wiggo, it comes with the territory of being The Best Cyclist in the World.

Continuing to put up a big F-CK YOU sign to the world doesn't help people understand his almighty achievements and it does nothing to help raise our status on the roads of the UK.

Similarly to the TdF outburst, do we really have to explain to you that he was giving the finger to the photographers hounding him all over the place, not to the nation in general? If I was in his position I'd happily shoot all of them, it's ridiculous the lengths they'll go to for a photo. Although it says a lot about the general public too that there is even a market for the photos they take.

flasher

adr82 wrote:

Similarly to the TdF outburst, do we really have to explain to you that he was giving the finger to the photographers hounding him all over the place, not to the nation in general? If I was in his position I'd happily shoot all of them, it's ridiculous the lengths they'll go to for a photo. Although it says a lot about the general public too that there is even a market for the photos they take.

How exactly were they "hounding him all over the place", they were outside of his house, it was a genuine news story about one of our greatest athletes.

Olympic/TdF cyclist gets knocked off his bike , maybe the government should have issued a 'D' notice, and waited for your permission to report the news.

adr82

Flasher wrote:

How exactly were they "hounding him all over the place", they were outside of his house, it was a genuine news story about one of our greatest athletes.

The now-infamous photo was taken when he was leaving the hospital after his crash. Explain to me the news value in seeing him do that? And I would most definitely consider having a scrum of photographers camped outside my house all day as being "hounded", as would most sane people.

Flasher wrote:

Olympic/TdF cyclist gets knocked off his bike , maybe the government should have issued a 'D' notice, and waited for your permission to report the news.

Yeah... I said nothing like that and you're totally missing the point of what I'm saying anyway. Of course it was worth reporting, I'm not arguing about that. I am daring to suggest that maybe, just maybe we don't really need to see a photo of him leaving hospital in the car! It adds nothing to the story.

steerpike

jeez adr82 stop being so *prickly* ! we get that you love Mr Wiggins ok?! Yes, we know that his ire was directed at *the photographers* but, as a 32 year old season pro (nay TDF winner) he shoulda/woulda known that his finger would be splashed across the nations breakfast tables - is Joe Public going to be so understanding?

As for 'C*ntgate', I think most people could understand prickliness at being asked about doping at the end of a hard days racing. But he should be a little thicker skinned and worldy wise by now - there is a reason the doping question continually comes up and there is a reason cycling fans feel cynical and betrayed. He needs a little more self-awareness.

confused@BR

.......to those desperate to be 'disappointed'.

adr82

steerpike wrote:

jeez adr82 stop being so *prickly* ! we get that you love Mr Wiggins ok?! Yes, we know that his ire was directed at *the photographers* but, as a 32 year old season pro (nay TDF winner) he shoulda/woulda known that his finger would be splashed across the nations breakfast tables - is Joe Public going to be so understanding?

Well yes, you would hope that any member of the public with a modest amount of intelligence would realise the background to the situation that the photograph was taken in and not instantly assume he was collectively telling the country to f*ck off! I'm not a blindly devoted fan of Wiggins or anything, I just have a lot of sympathy for people who find themselves inadvertently caught up in the disgusting 24/7 celebrity news cycle for which your beloved "Joe Public" is entirely responsible.

steerpike wrote:

As for 'C*ntgate', I think most people could understand prickliness at being asked about doping at the end of a hard days racing. But he should be a little thicker skinned and worldy wise by now - there is a reason the doping question continually comes up and there is a reason cycling fans feel cynical and betrayed. He needs a little more self-awareness.

Again, I think you are finding it too easy to make judgements from a distance. It's one thing to sit there and say "Well if I was in situation X, I'd do Y instead of Z". When you're actually in situation X and have little or no time to think under pressure before you decide on Y or Z things could turn out rather differently.

TMR

Secteur wrote:

Well, I have held off posting this for a few weeks now, but after seeing Wiggins "giving the finger" to the press as he left hospital today, I feel compelled to post...

Wiggins is a good cyclist. Indeed, he's a great cyclist, and has achieved an incredible amount, but his antics off the road are embarrassing.

The finger today, the c-word at the TdF, the crap almost rude interviews, the constant "I hate all the attention" (dont compete and win big races then), and lets not mention the blue coat at the recent TdF presentation... Plus his famous "i was almost an alcoholic" phase and issues at Sky highlight his approach to life (though I admit, he changed his ways and "lived the life of a cyclist" over last Winter and showed major dedication, which has to be admired).

I feel more than ever that Chris Froome would have been a better "first British winner of a grand tour / TdF" and would been have a far more dignified and gracious champion.

I really cant stand Wiggins now and it he just seems unable to be gracious in public. I dont just support a winner, I support the man, and I just cant bring myself to support this man anymore.

there's enough cyclist hatred as it is, and him giving the finger to the waiting press after leaving hospital today will do immesurable damage to his and cyclists reputations amongst many.

I logged in to reply to this because your post has pissed me off TBH. I think you need to get over yourself. He doesn't owe you a thing. He can say and do as he likes, it's his life not yours. He is under no obligation to behave in any way other than how he chooses to, certainly not in any way that cycling fans think he should. You don't own him and neither does anyone else. Give the guy a break FFS.

I doubt anyone with any common sense will have looked at the photos of him leaving hospital and thought anything other than 'Good for him - f*cking photographers getting in his face when he's just broke his ribs.'

Seriously :roll:

itisaboutthebike

titillation

(about the 10th post)

Sorry - Badley doesn't arouse any titilation in me I'm afraid. VP yes - Whingo er no.

ddraver

steerpike wrote:

Now I'd be the last person to suggest we hold footballers up as examples of rounded sportsmen, but can you imagine if Steven Gerrard had called football fans ' a bunch of c***s'?? He'd be signing his own death warrant.

Did nt seem to do Mr Rooney's career any harm after his outburst at the World Cup now did it..?

Rodrego Hernandez

I've met him and spoke to him on the phone and he's just a normal bloke.

If I consider how grumpy I get when in a crowded situation like a busy bar or a queue or even after a bike race I think he's pretty well restrained. The British press are a pretty disgraceful bunch, especially when chasing 'celebrities' so fair play to him for giving them the finger. He's just a bike rider and is trying to lead a normal life.

flasher

ddraver wrote:

steerpike wrote:

Now I'd be the last person to suggest we hold footballers up as examples of rounded sportsmen, but can you imagine if Steven Gerrard had called football fans ' a bunch of c***s'?? He'd be signing his own death warrant.

Did nt seem to do Mr Rooney's career any harm after his outburst at the World Cup now did it..?

Things are getting bad when you start being compared to Rooney!

ddraver

What, Global sportstar, guarenteed National and domestic place assured?

Sucks!

Harley35

TailWindHome wrote:

Wow his fingers are really long. Like creepy long.

:shock:

Daz555

confused@BR wrote:

.......to those desperate to be 'disappointed'.

Lock em in a dark room with the "I'm so offended" brigade.

Anonymous

Why has the opening post not mentioned David Millar. I'm a big fan of Millar and the work he seems to be doing but if you use the logic of the opening post Millar is an national travesty: he swears in interviews, he had the whole Landis episode etc and also he doped. It just seems the OP is one of the people in cycling who seem to want to hate Wiggins because he has a bit of personality and doesn't just go around answering generic Pr man answers to questions by an ever intrusive media.

When he broke his collar bone how many "paps" were there outside the hospital waiting for a shot of him, or how many front covers did he get on then? None I would imagine, so he has every right to feel that he shouldnt care about these people who only actually want anything to do with him now hes successful.

Also whats all the fuss about him wearing a blue jacket?

HE is very engaging, see him interview post Paris-Nice, he seamlessly switches between French and English to answer questions. The man is an athlete not a TV star.

inkyfingers

Don't want to get into the discussion on this thread, but I was reminded about the interview that Wiggins gave to ITV outside the hospital after he'd crashed out of the 2011 tour, where he looked much happier than you would have expected and he said it was due to the painkillers he'd been given.