Vino / LBL / "Loan"

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Comments

  • Turfle
    Turfle Posts: 3,762
    When they have bank records of a hefty payment, and emails from Kolobnev saying he doesn't know if he did the right thing, and he only did it because it was Vino, and instructing Vino to delete the email, then I think it's right to police it. And I think it would be a dangerous precedent to not police it.
  • secretsqirrel
    secretsqirrel Posts: 2,122
    The UCI needs to review their laws, this one sounds like another can of worms.
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    SecretSqirrel wrote:
    The UCI needs to review their laws, this one sounds like another can of worms.

    On this no i dont agree, its been going on for years and for its part an parcel of the intrigue of pro bike racing, like did Zoetemelk really beat S.Kelly etc for his WC at aged 38? or any other multitude of wins over the years!
    I know i ll be in the minority here but i couldnt careless, get over yourselves and concentrate on things that really do effect real lives - like Thatcherites who bxgger small boys in care homes.

    Pro bike racing is basically entertainment, no one gets killed - rarely - and they all race out of free will, they all know the score - just look what happened to pro wrestling when that decided to come clean?
    just be careful for what you wish for.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    Does Dennis have another pseudonym..?
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • r0bh
    r0bh Posts: 2,436
    the Inner Ring ‏@inrng 2m
    Vinokourov and Kolobnev charged with corruption by Belgian judge over Liège-Bastogne-Liège "sale" : http://www.lesoir.be/631258/article/spo ... ur-corrupt
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Wow that is seriously unexpected. Can you even charge people for doing that!
    Contador is the Greatest
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Wow that is seriously unexpected. Can you even charge people for doing that!
    In this country cricketers have gone to prison for less.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • The_Boy
    The_Boy Posts: 3,099
    RichN95 wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Wow that is seriously unexpected. Can you even charge people for doing that!
    In this country cricketers have gone to prison for less.

    See also: the horse racing fraternity.
    Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy
  • r0bh
    r0bh Posts: 2,436
    RichN95 wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Wow that is seriously unexpected. Can you even charge people for doing that!
    In this country cricketers have gone to prison for less.

    For anyone interested this is the most high profile spot fixing case that went through the British courts; sentences of between 6 and 30 months in jail handed out

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_c ... ng_scandal
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    Presumably there is no professional boxing in Belgium then.
  • Yellow Peril
    Yellow Peril Posts: 4,466
    I wonder if Uran will be looking over his (wrong) shoulder in light of this?
    @JaunePeril

    Winner of the Bike Radar Pro Race Wiggins Hour Prediction Competition
  • BenderRodriguez
    BenderRodriguez Posts: 907
    r0bh wrote:
    For anyone interested this is the most high profile spot fixing case that went through the British courts; sentences of between 6 and 30 months in jail handed out

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_c ... ng_scandal

    But colluding with bookies in order to defraud the public is rather different to paying someone to help you stay away in a race.
    "an original thinker… the intellectual heir of Galileo and Einstein… suspicious of orthodoxy - any orthodoxy… He relishes all forms of ontological argument": jane90.
  • BenderRodriguez
    BenderRodriguez Posts: 907
    SecretSqirrel wrote:
    This is the rule, as cited in Velonation:

    UCI regulation 1.2.081. This rule states that: “Riders shall sportingly defend their own chances. Any collusion or behaviour likely to falsify or go against the interests of the competition shall be forbidden.”

    What a dumb rule, or at least dumbly worded. I wonder what would happen if someone in a break cited that rule as a reason for not working, on the grounds that doing so would amount to collusion and go against the interests of those not in the break! The whole sport is based on such 'collusion' in order to gain an advantage over others.
    "an original thinker… the intellectual heir of Galileo and Einstein… suspicious of orthodoxy - any orthodoxy… He relishes all forms of ontological argument": jane90.
  • takethehighroad
    takethehighroad Posts: 6,821
    Surely that rule is broken when the GC guy lets his co-escapee take the stage as he knows he's going into /defending the jersey.

    One example I can think of is Pinotti in 2007. Knew he was going into Pink so let Laverde take the stage (even taking his hands off the bars)

    fs002.jpg
  • Yellow Peril
    Yellow Peril Posts: 4,466
    Like most things the crime is getting caught...or at least admitting to it. An exacerbating factor here is the prestige of L-B-L as a one day race monument as opposed to gifting a stage in a stage race for GC purposes
    @JaunePeril

    Winner of the Bike Radar Pro Race Wiggins Hour Prediction Competition
  • einriba
    einriba Posts: 319
    I hate Vino and everything he stands for, and all that work with him - I won't trust any of them. Why he's been allowed back in to the cycling remit is beyond me. Filthy dirty cheat.
    Getting up is the second hardest thing in the morning
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    TakeTheHighRoad wrote:
    Surely that rule is broken when the GC guy lets his co-escapee take the stage as he knows he's going into /defending the jersey.
    That's a small part of a whole though. Tactically legitimate and solely for sporting reasons. It's not falsifying the result. Losing a one day race for no other reason than cash is.

    A parallel which didin't involve betting could be found in the Marseille match fixing scandal in 1993. Bernard Tapie went to prison for that.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    RichN95 wrote:
    TakeTheHighRoad wrote:
    Surely that rule is broken when the GC guy lets his co-escapee take the stage as he knows he's going into /defending the jersey.
    That's a small part of a whole though. Tactically legitimate and solely for sporting reasons. It's not falsifying the result.
    It does falsify it, though; there could have been another stage winner with an honest sprint.
    Cycling's funny though, it's so tactical. So many more grey areas than in most sports. Almost every race has moments where the results are different than just one rider's physical abilities against another's. Two competitors helping each other to achieve a mutually beneficial result against a third competitor is so common (say, two non-sprinters in a break with a sprinter) it's just part of normal tactics, even though it does 'falsify' the result. In other sports it would be a scandal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gSie6sqFWg
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    FJS wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    TakeTheHighRoad wrote:
    Surely that rule is broken when the GC guy lets his co-escapee take the stage as he knows he's going into /defending the jersey.
    That's a small part of a whole though. Tactically legitimate and solely for sporting reasons. It's not falsifying the result.
    It does falsify it, though; there could have been another stage winner with an honest sprint.
    Cycling's funny though, it's so tactical. So many more grey areas than in most sports. Almost every race has moments where the results are different than just one rider's physical abilities against another's. Two competitors helping each other to achieve a mutually beneficial result against a third competitor is so common (say, two non-sprinters in a break with a sprinter) it's just part of normal tactics, even though it does 'falsify' the result. In other sports it would be a scandal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gSie6sqFWg
    But cycling has cross team co-operation as an essential component of the sport. Breaks have to share the load, and the sprinters teams have to co-operate to bring them back. People understand that. Losing a battle to help win a war is tactics and people understand that there is a bigger picture beyond an individual stage. So working towards a bigger goal in a normal manner is not falsifying anything.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    RichN95 wrote:
    FJS wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    TakeTheHighRoad wrote:
    Surely that rule is broken when the GC guy lets his co-escapee take the stage as he knows he's going into /defending the jersey.
    That's a small part of a whole though. Tactically legitimate and solely for sporting reasons. It's not falsifying the result.
    It does falsify it, though; there could have been another stage winner with an honest sprint.
    Cycling's funny though, it's so tactical. So many more grey areas than in most sports. Almost every race has moments where the results are different than just one rider's physical abilities against another's. Two competitors helping each other to achieve a mutually beneficial result against a third competitor is so common (say, two non-sprinters in a break with a sprinter) it's just part of normal tactics, even though it does 'falsify' the result. In other sports it would be a scandal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gSie6sqFWg
    But cycling has cross team co-operation as an essential component of the sport.
    Exactly. Most other sports don't. Which is why other sports' standards don't always apply in the same way.
    Even the more straightforward forms of falsification have grey areas. Yes, accepting money directly to lose a race = out of order. What about losing a race in return for help received earlier in the season, or to be offered at a later stage? Or a knackered rider without a sprint in a break with a strong, fresh fast sprinting rider accepting some financial compensation for doing some turns at the front when already in a losing position anyway?
  • wombly_knees
    wombly_knees Posts: 657
    BenderRodriguez wrote:
    r0bh wrote:
    For anyone interested this is the most high profile spot fixing case that went through the British courts; sentences of between 6 and 30 months in jail handed out

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_c ... ng_scandal

    But colluding with bookies in order to defraud the public is rather different to paying someone to help you stay away in a race.
    Which in turn is different to the nature of allegations against Vinokourov.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,462
    Presumably 'defending your own chances' would also mean you have to chase your own team mates! At face value it sounds like a badly written, unenforceable rule but it covers the whole buying a race thing well as pretty much any other situation can be viewed as tactical whereas not trying to win in return for an envelope full of cash cannot.
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    wonder if anything will happen with this and what was the outcome of the UCI investigation from the other year.

    The thing is this has been going on for decades in cycling it's part of the history of the sport that people will buy people's wheels to win a race. Even LA has done this in the past.

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