Vino / LBL / "Loan"

iainf72
iainf72 Posts: 15,784
edited August 2014 in Pro race
via inrng

http://www.corriere.it/sport/12_novembr ... 07fd.shtml

UCI given details of how the kazak bell e...I mean legend bought LBL.
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
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Comments

  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    I thought everyone already knew this....
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    ddraver wrote:
    I thought everyone already knew this....

    They do, probably going formal now.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    meh....over it to be honest,
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    So maybe he did buy it from Kolobnev. Does that matter? I'd obviously prefer he hadn't, but he still could have beaten him maybe and if he didn't then come a close second ahead of some serious talent, and not in a sprint, and after making a brave and quality move from a long way out. It is still a heavyweight performance.

    x610-5.jpg
    Contador is the Greatest
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,548
    If he won sat on the back of the TV motorbike you'd still defend him!
  • secretsqirrel
    secretsqirrel Posts: 2,122
    If he bought it, Kolobnev sold it. It takes 2.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    andyp wrote:
    If he won sat on the back of the TV motorbike you'd still defend him!

    :lol:
    Contador is the Greatest
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,434
    The link is in foreignish.

    Help.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • MrTapir
    MrTapir Posts: 1,206
    TailWindHome wrote:
    The link is in foreignish.

    Help.

    This may help
  • Tom Butcher
    Tom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    Vino is the faster finisher - if they do 50:50 Kolobnev must have known Vino would likely win it - why not take the money and a guaranteed 2nd place anyway - Vino isn't the kind of rider to tow you to the finish. That's likely to have been Kolobnev's reasoning - like FF I'd rather it didn't happen but it's been part of cycling for a long time.
    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • Mad_Malx
    Mad_Malx Posts: 5,182
    ^^Had the same though at the Olympic race. If Uran really did sell this he did well, he wasn't going to win anyway.
  • MrTapir
    MrTapir Posts: 1,206
    I thought Uran had a fairly decent finish on him...
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    I was listening to the Speed Metal Cycling Pod about that, Although it wasnt covered at all in the UK, it was in Columbia and Uran said he was basically knackered and could never have won a sprint against Vino (he's a climber by trade remember). However the benefit of winning a Gold medal in Cycling for Columbia would be huge and way more than Vino could ever have offered Uran...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • MrTapir
    MrTapir Posts: 1,206
    ddraver wrote:
    I was listening to the Speed Metal Cycling Pod about that, Although it wasnt covered at all in the UK, it was in Columbia and Uran said he was basically knackered and could never have won a sprint against Vino (he's a climber by trade remember). However the benefit of winning a Gold medal in Cycling for Columbia would be huge and way more than Vino could ever have offered Uran...

    Whats the speed metal podcast? Sounds like two of my favourite things...
  • andyrr
    andyrr Posts: 1,823
    Don't think Uan is a sprinter - he's had success in the Colombian Nat TT Champs I think plus he climbs big mountains pretty well so I don't see him having a great chance in a sprint against Vino who isn't a sprinter per se but is someone with a kick at the end of a hard race.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    MrTapir wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    I was listening to the Speed Metal Cycling Pod about that, Although it wasnt covered at all in the UK, it was in Columbia and Uran said he was basically knackered and could never have won a sprint against Vino (he's a climber by trade remember). However the benefit of winning a Gold medal in Cycling for Columbia would be huge and way more than Vino could ever have offered Uran...

    Whats the speed metal podcast? Sounds like two of my favourite things...

    Search for Speed Metal cycling on google - It's a columbian guy with a few other US guys that follow south American cycling closely. It's quite light hearted and it's just a few keen fans discussing stuff they like rather than a full on balanced production, but it's good.
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    ddraver wrote:
    I was listening to the Speed Metal Cycling Pod about that, Although it wasnt covered at all in the UK, it was in Columbia and Uran said he was basically knackered and could never have won a sprint against Vino (he's a climber by trade remember). However the benefit of winning a Gold medal in Cycling for Columbia would be huge and way more than Vino could ever have offered Uran...


    There was an interview with Rigo around 3 weeks ago (Velo News?) where he said the same thing. Personally I don't think he sold the race - as well as the feeling I have about Rigo's own ethics preventing him from selling it ( just my feeling, doesn't mean diddly), this business about how massive a gold medal would have been for Columbia is a biggie. Rigo is a fiercely proud Columbian - totally different proposition from Kolobov riding for his trade team and selling L-B-L.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    After the Olympics the Dutch TV lot were highly suspicious of Uran's badly timed look over the wrong shoulder...
    _
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,434
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    After the Olympics the Dutch TV lot were highly suspicious of Uran's badly timed look over the wrong shoulder...

    As someone on here put it; "He looked over his shoulder long enough to check that his mortgage was paid"
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,651
    TailWindHome wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    After the Olympics the Dutch TV lot were highly suspicious of Uran's badly timed look over the wrong shoulder...

    As someone on here put it; "He looked over his shoulder long enough to check that his mortgage was paid"

    If he had fixed it I reckon he'd have done a fair sight better at making it look good.
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • Abdoujaparov
    Abdoujaparov Posts: 642
    Watch it back in HD on a big screen (the Olympic RR) and you can see Vino asking Uran something with 800m to go, Uran accepting, Vino checking and Uran confirming. Uran then smoothly accelerates in front of Vino to tow him from 700m - 300m-odd, but has the presence of mind to stay tight on the barriers so Vino can only attack him on one side. Of course then Uran swings out into the middle of the road while doing that looking the wrong way thing at the very crucial moment of the race. Brilliant.
  • rickyrider
    rickyrider Posts: 294
    No question it looked ridiculously suspicious at the time. All of us who watched it just laughed it appeared so blatant.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,462
    frenchfighter wrote:
    So maybe he did buy it from Kolobnev. Does that matter? I'd obviously prefer he hadn't, but he still could have beaten him maybe and if he didn't then come a close second ahead of some serious talent, and not in a sprint, and after making a brave and quality move from a long way out. It is still a heavyweight performance.

    But in that case why would Vino buy it? He couldn't have been as confident as you are, presumably his legs were telling him he might not win the sprint.
  • Tom Butcher
    Tom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    Because he needed Kolobnev to work with him if they were both to stay away -or at least he needed to be able to press on without Kolobnev sitting on his wheel the whole way in which case of course Kolobnev would have a good chance in the finish.
    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    rickyrider wrote:
    No question it looked ridiculously suspicious at the time. All of us who watched it just laughed it appeared so blatant.

    I think you re all too suspicious - I thought it was the schoolboy error of a guy that never sprints and did nt realise how wide The Mall is...

    I guess we ll never know. I suppose if Vino is stupid enough to offer the money and Uran is clever enough to realise that he has zero chance of winning a sprint then...?
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Turfle
    Turfle Posts: 3,762
    Race-fixing dressed up as tradition.

    It's clear from the emails that Vino wasn't buying cooperation, but was buying the win.
  • Tom Butcher
    Tom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    No it's not. He was buying cooperation which they both knew would mean Vino would win - there's a difference. Realistically if you work with a faster finisher all the way to the line you know who will win - that's not the same as not trying in the sprint. I've been in races where I've been absolutely knackered but I've tried to keep the break going even if there are people soft tapping because I know I've got no chance in the sprint anyway - I may as well get a top 10 as nothing - and that' s without being offered £120k for it.
    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    UCI investigating. That should give Vino plenty of time to see through his team management career :roll:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-to- ... ge-victory
  • secretsqirrel
    secretsqirrel Posts: 2,122
    This is the rule, as cited in Velonation:

    UCI regulation 1.2.081. This rule states that: “Riders shall sportingly defend their own chances. Any collusion or behaviour likely to falsify or go against the interests of the competition shall be forbidden.”

    How does one reconcile this in a sport where individuals compete in teams. :roll:
    Was Froome contravening the rules for not defending his own chances in the Tour?
    Are lead-out trains falsifying the interests of competition by burying themselves for the leader?

    How would they police this, perhaps Vino rewarded Kolobnev for helping him get away. It sounds like 'match fixing' but how do you fix a race that you are racing into the final stages? It's daft.

    How about the brown envelope jobs between team cars? Oh ...... perhaps those guys are in enough trouble as it is :wink:
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    Squirrel - When this first came out it was slap bang in the middle of the Spot Fixing "scandal" in Cricket. It's really an interesting point. The truth is that this happens and has happened for ages! Hell, Dean Downing freely admits buying and selling criteriums on the Real Peloton podcast.

    Although I would guess the temptation (for the Pro Tour at least) is a lot less now with things like minimum salaries and teams supporting riders more thoroughly. It would set a precedent if the UCI were to prosecute the riders on it, but then part of me thinks it's a part of cycling that should probably die now.
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver

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