400 miles in 4 days - Training Plan?

laurentian

Hello there

The Mrs and I have been cycling for just under 12 months. We started as she had entered us into a charity ride (she always commits to a physical challenge of some sort every year be that marathon, half marathon or ridiculous yomping across the country).

Anyway, we did 150 miles over 2 days in Scotland and both thoroughly enjoyed the ride and indeed the training for it. we were supplied with a week by week training plan by the organisers and I was very impressed how this took us from complete novices to being able to complete the 150 miles. In truth I think we could both have done a 3rd day of 70+ miles.

We have the opportunity to join some people on a coast to coast ride in May 2013 that, I believe, is around 400 miles. The others doing it are pretty experienced riders but I am confident that a similar week by week plan would enable us to hold our own. Can anyone suggest a source or know of a plan that could get us from our present 30-50 miles on a Sunday to being able to do four consecutive 100 milers?

Thanks

ShutUpLegs

Do as many miles as you can on four consecutive days, rest for 2 days, then repeat

Herbsman

ShutUpLegs wrote:

Do as many miles as you can on four consecutive days, rest for 2 days, then repeat

That is absolutely f***ing stupid advice. Are you some sort of idiot? Where did you even get such a moronic idea from?

TheEnglishman

Herbsman wrote:

ShutUpLegs wrote:

Do as many miles as you can on four consecutive days, rest for 2 days, then repeat

That is absolutely f***ing stupid advice. Are you some sort of idiot? Where did you even get such a moronic idea from?

Well, edumacate us!

laurentian

ShutUpLegs wrote:

Do as many miles as you can on four consecutive days, rest for 2 days, then repeat

I guess there's a logic to this but I can only imagine that the distances would be less and less on days 3 and 4 (and probably leave me stranded miles from home!)

Lots of cyclists must do this type of thing and I was looking for a structured plan over a c.20 week period - anyone?

Herbsman

You are going to be doing a lot of miles every day for four days.

Guess what you need to do to train for that?

laurentian

Herbsman wrote:

You are going to be doing a lot of miles every day for four days.

Guess what you need to do to train for that?

Ask somewhere else I guess!

chrisaonabike

laurentian wrote:

...we did 150 miles over 2 days in Scotland and both thoroughly enjoyed the ride and indeed the training for it. we were supplied with a week by week training plan by the organisers and I was very impressed how this took us from complete novices to being able to complete the 150 miles. In truth I think we could both have done a 3rd day of 70+ miles.
...

What was your training plan for what you did? Sounds like it was good enough for 70 miles a day for three days.

poynedexter

Herbsman wrote:

You are going to be doing a lot of miles every day for four days.

Guess what you need to do to train for that?

yep, just ride further than u normally do. and if you have time, a bit more often. it really doesnt need to be any ore than that.

Herbsman

laurentian wrote:

Herbsman wrote:

You are going to be doing a lot of miles every day for four days.

Guess what you need to do to train for that?

Ask somewhere else I guess!

You could try doing lots of miles every day for four days then resting, then repeating. As previously suggested.

laurentian

Like I said, I see some logic (perhaps faultless logic) in this but, being a working chap, cycling for four consecutive days, in the winter is not something that my work, or daylight hours will allow. Obviously, daylight and evening rides will be a more practical thing to do come the spring. Being relatively new to this, I was wondering if there were other suggestions or hints on how to build up. If not, fine, I'll do my best to get the miles in in the available time if there are any other tips, I'll take them on board.

My initial opinion was to build up the miles pretty much exactly as others have posted but I don't consider my opinion to be as worthwhile as that of some of the experts on here who may be able to give me the benefit of their experience. This is a training specific board on a cycle specific forum . . . given that I'm asking about cycle training, I thought it might be worth a shot.

SBezza

If you have a 20 week period, start by building up the mileage on your long rides, perhaps getting to 100 miles. The next thing you will want to do is build up to doing these on back to back days.

I personally would start by riding both weekend days, and do reasonable mileage, say 60-70 miles, and then building up one day to be around the 100 mile mark, and then slowly building up the second day to be a similar amount. If you get the chance try a couple of times to add in a 3rd ride on the 3rd day, though this might mean a holiday from work etc.

To be honest once you can do 2 days at 100 miles + without too many issues, I would have thought doing the extra couple of days shouldn't present too much of an issue. During the week try and keep some intensity up as well (this will help with fitness as well) by doing some Z3/Z4 work, for shorter periods say 1-1.5 hours. You might want to think about doing this on a turbo if conditions don't allow you to actually get out on the road.

As your fitness builds you should find it increasingly easier to actually manage back to back rides, obviously during a charity event, you will probably find you will ride it at a lower effort than you might have trained, this is good in the fact it will be easier to actually manage the 100 miles and recover sufficiently between the rides for it not too be an issue.

DubaiNeil

Not sure why all the antagonism has appeared here?

@ O/P - some options:

(a) Sign up with a coach (online or face to face), explain your goals, objectives, concerns & issues and be provided with a plan. This can be reasonably cheap with limited direct access & an "off the shelf" plan

(b) Purchase a training guide, read & digest the info and define your own plan. [flame-suit] - I used Chris Carmichaels "The Time Crunched Cyclist" as a guide, which I found quite informative and easy to follow [/flame suit]. There is probably more value in using interval training for these type of events (mixed with longer distance work) than you may realise.

(c) As mentioned above, take the training plan you were already provided with and extend the duration, increase the distances & increase the intensity as necessary.

4 x 100 miles is not unachievable for "normal" people, especially with some training and a suitable (i.e. well fitting) bike. I would assume that on the 4 days you have nothing to do other than leave point A and arrive at point B. Allowing 10 potential riding hours per day, remove 2 hours for stops (lunch, drinks, comfort breaks, p*ncture repairs etc), leaves 8 hours actual saddle time. Average speed of 12.5mph required.

How much training you require will depend on how comfortable you are on your current 30-50 mile rides, what average speed you are currently achieving and if you feel would be able to repeat the effort a second day.

As part of the training it will be essential to actually ride consecutive days, but (IMO) this could be left until somewhat closer to the ride date rather than in the middle of winter...

DubaiNeil

and the response from sbezza & mine over-lapped...

thegibdog

I think some of the facetious responses were due to thinking a specific training plan would be unneccessary. If you're already comfortable doing 150 miles over 2 days and felt you could have done another 75 the next day you probably don't need that much training. As SBezza said it is just a case of increasing the mileage and riding back to back days.

You don't need to be doing 4 days consecutively any time soon, leave that for the spring - maybe Easter? I did the End to End in May and only started training for it in February.

peat

In May 2013, I'm going to be doing 500 miles over 5 days, interspersed with climbing the 3 peaks (Snowdon/Scarfell/Nevis) at the begining, middle and end.

I had just planned on miles miles miles by way of training. But with some climbing and descending training (on foot) too as i have climbed Snowdon before and the descent absolutely ruined my legs (knees and calves).

laurentian

SBezza, Dubaineil, Gibdog, Peat.

Many thanks - all useful advice and I will take it on board.

One question: what is "Z3/Z4 work"?

I will certainly have a look at the "Time Crunched Cyclist" as the title alone seems to sum up my present situation quite well!

The answers to a newcomer's question may seem obvious to many on here. They are obviously seen by some as an opportunity for a sarcastic swipe, but they wouldn't be being asked if I didn't want or need to know the answer.

Having only ever done that which I had originally posted (150 miles in two days), I have no idea whether there is a natural progression to 100 miles back to back over 4 days - it seems an awfully big jump to me! Your constructive answers have been most helpful.

I have been involved with another sport for probably longer than some of the less helpful posters have been alive. I would consider it a dereliction of my obligation to the sport that I love to have answered in the way that was thought necessary by someone above.

The rest of you, I can't thank you enough - enjoy your cycling, I am sure your advice will be invaluable.

SBezza

laurentian wrote:

One question: what is "Z3/Z4 work"?

It is Zone 3 or Zone 4 type efforts.

Basically your 100 mile ride would likely take place as a zone 2 effort, whereas shorter durations, up to 2 hours or so would normally be done at a harder effort.

Here is a guide and calculator to help you.

http://www.machinehead-software.co.uk/b ... c_bcf.html

and some more info.

http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/articl ... sts-28838/

amaferanga

Long rides at the weekend, shorter, harder rides through the week. Simple as that really. You're not trying to get fit to race or anything so I doubt you need a coach or a fancy training plan. I followed this simple approach a few years back when I did LEJOG in 5 days, doing 300km/day. Prior to doing it I'd done about three of four 300km rides that year. I didn't even bother with back-to-back rides (well I sort of did, but it pissed with rain on the second day when I was supposed to be riding from the Scottish Borders back to Sheffield so I got on a train in Newcastle instead). One of the most important things for a long back-to-back ride is that your bike is comfortable because if it hurts after a day it'll be a heck of a lot worse after two or three days.

I'd say as well that your mind can play a big part in something like this. If it's an 'event' then you can usually do more than you normally would. That's why people can ride harder in races than they can in training. And that's why trying to do the same thing in training as suggested by the genius above would be daft. For me on my LEJOG I was fine until I got to JoG and as soon as I stopped I cramped up (unfortunately I still had to ride back to Thurso that day as well).

Alex_Simmons/RST

laurentian wrote:

Can anyone suggest a source or know of a plan that could get us from our present 30-50 miles on a Sunday to being able to do four consecutive 100 milers?

We have plans that can help your fitness greatly. Toss in the occasional weekend with extra long rides, and you will be well prepared for the event.
http://www.rstsport.com/?event=training

laurentian

All excellent advice and information thank you very much

prb007

Ride more; type less:)
Which coasts are 400 miles apart, btw??

meanredspider

I'm planning on the same ride (type - London to Edin in 4 days). I did Malin to Mizen this year in 6 days (430 miles I think) and found it pretty easy. I did very little by way of specific preparation over and above my 30-mile RT commute 3x a week (added in a few 45-mile return rides). Certainly I don't believe there's any reason to need to do 100 miles at any point beforehand other than to give you confidence. I averaged the Ireland ride at over 17mph riding speed and rode entirely solo. It was part of an organised ride though so I had quite a bit of "recovery" time (getting cold and stiff) during the day while the slower riders caught up. If you can do 75-mile days back-to-back, there's no reason to think you can't do 100 miles. Get in plenty of shorter rides (30-50 miles) mixed with a few longer rides (75-80 miles) and I'm sure you'll be fine.

I paced myself on the ride itself by keeping my heart rate at or below 140bpm which feels like a level of exertion I can sustain day-in day-out - this versus a commute HR avg nearer 160bpm (all against an HRmax of 183). How much this helped, I don't know.

Herbsman

amaferanga wrote:

If it's an 'event' then you can usually do more than you normally would. That's why people can ride harder in races than they can in training. And that's why trying to do the same thing in training as suggested by the genius above would be daft.

It worked for me when I did Paris to Amsterdam on a bike with 25kg of camping gear, clothes etc

Did as many miles as I could on 5 consecutive days in the months leading up to it, and had no problem doing 80 miles a day for however long it takes to do 500 miles.

However I should add that I was a cycle courier at the time, so didn't have a choice in the matter! My maximum daily mileage was only about 35, obviously stop-start type rides, and no more than 5-8 miles per journey, and the longest ride I'd ever done was 50 miles. I'd do the occasional 30 mile 'leisure' ride on a Saturday morning just to see how quickly I could complete the outer ring road of the city. That was 'as many miles as I can' or more accurately 'as many miles as I had time for' on 5-6 consecutive days.

My point is (I feel) that riding as much as I could on consecutive days helped - at least mentally if not physically - when I had to ride a set distance every day on consecutive days. Is it really such a bad idea for someone to do that, if that's what they're training for?

bahzob

Think some of the confusion here is because the physical challenge of riding 100 miles a day is not that great, if you already have some experience of riding as the OP does.

It simply involves riding 6-8 hours per day at a comfortable pace, with stops for chat/coffee, with no need to ever go near to max effort levels. Because the effort levels are so low the recovery needs are also not that great.

The biggest challenge, as this post shows, is the mental one. If you tell yourself it's going to be hard it will be.

laurentian

And again, Thanks for the info - I think you're right Bazhub 100 miles sounds a lot - that could be the problem!!

Just need some dry weather on a Sunday . . .