N+1 Steel/Ti

il_principe

Ok, this is theoretical at the moment, but I'm considering purchasing a Steel or Ti bike to use as my winter steed. Will fund the purchase by selling my Pinarello Prince which has been relegated to winter duties following the purchase of the Dogma2 in May. I can't really bear the idea of relegating the Prince to winter duties, and given that it is mainly white, it's going to need constant attention to keep it clean. So I'm toying with steel/ti and wondered which forumites ride these frames and what manufacturers to look at?

There are 4 things I would like:
1. The ability to choose the paint job - or a frame that come in black.
2. Internal routing
3. Designed to take EPS/Di2
4. Option to choose forks, stem, bars and external headset. (Thinking a mix of ENVE, 3T and Chris King)

There don't seem to be that many UK based options out there - so far I've looked at:

Condor
Enigma
Roberts
Sabbath
Qoroz
Ritte (American)
Firefly (American) but with a dealer in Farringdon.

The Ritte 'snob' is appealing at the mo as it ticks all the boxes above, and can even be supplied with a hidden battery should I contemplate going with Ultegra electronic, although I'd prefer Athena EPS.

I'll probably go mechanical for now to keep the cost down but would like the option for the future.

So, Hive Mind, what are your thoughts?

spasypaddy

this is something i considered a while ago, and id be looking at enigma.

A brand you may not have considered and would also depend on how much you wanted to spend is Baum in australia. But that is silly money for a winter bike.

Greg T

Il Principe wrote:

.... I'm considering purchasing a Steel or Ti bike to use as my winter steed.

There are 4 things I would like:

1. The ability to choose the paint job - or a frame that come in black.
2. Internal routing
3. Designed to take EPS/Di2
4. Option to choose forks, stem, bars and external headset. (Thinking a mix of ENVE, 3T and Chris King)


So, Hive Mind, what are your thoughts?

You should buy it before you sit down and do the maths as to what your B+1 is going to cost you . . .

SteppenHerring

although I'd prefer Athena EPS.

Sounds a bit effeminate.

I know people with Enigmae (for that is the plural) and they strike me as attractive and highly capable bikes. If you have the cash, I dare say they'll make the frame however you want.

il_principe

spasypaddy wrote:

this is something i considered a while ago, and id be looking at enigma.

A brand you may not have considered and would also depend on how much you wanted to spend is Baum in australia. But that is silly money for a winter bike.

Yeah looked at Baum but the prices are silly. Same with Passoni, saw a beautiful matte black Passoni in Cyclefit a few months ago, but we're talking £3500 just for the frame/forks!

The Ritte Snob with custom paint and everything bar wheels and gruppo is £2750 so probably just out of budget.

Enigma seems the most likely ATM and they're based near Eastbourne so relatively handy.

SimonAH

Have you looked at Burls at all?

il_principe

SimonAH wrote:

Have you looked at Burls at all?

Yep, but they're based out near Harwich with is an utter PITA for me.

rjsterry

Il Principe wrote:

...So I'm toying with steel/ti and wondered which forumites ride these frames and what manufacturers to look at?

There are 4 things I would like:
1. The ability to choose the paint job - or a frame that come in black.
2. Internal routing
3. Designed to take EPS/Di2
4. Option to choose forks, stem, bars and external headset. (Thinking a mix of ENVE, 3T and Chris King)

There don't seem to be that many UK based options out there - so far I've looked at:

Condor
Enigma
Roberts
Sabbath
Qoroz
Ritte (American)
Firefly (American) but with a dealer in Farringdon.

The Ritte 'snob' is appealing at the mo as it ticks all the boxes above, and can even be supplied with a hidden battery should I contemplate going with Ultegra electronic, although I'd prefer Athena EPS.

I'll probably go mechanical for now to keep the cost down but would like the option for the future.

So, Hive Mind, what are your thoughts?

Wut?

There are plenty of builders in the UK. Have a look at this exhibitors list from the Bespoke show in Bristol, this year. Personally, I'd pick out Mercian, Paulus Quiros and perhaps Donhou, but there's something for every taste.

http://www.bespokedbristol.co.uk/BespokedBristol/Bespoked_Bristol_2012_Exhibitors_A-_F.html

spasypaddy

oh and really exotic, Dean Cycles in america. Serious bike porn

tailwindhome

If you were to go Ti would you not leave it bare?

SteppenHerring wrote:

although I'd prefer Athena EPS.

Sounds a bit effeminate.

Don't go there.

asprilla

Make sure you get them to include a rear disc mount.

It's one thing I regret about my build. I might not use it at the moment and probably won't need it for a few years, but I will some day.

Book a holiday in Italy and go see Crisp Titanium.

rjsterry

This looks like what you're after

http://www.donhoubicycles.com/hins-road/
EDIT: Some pics. Now I know it's got Ui2, rather than EPS, but otherwise a very close match.

the_fuggler

Mmmm. Enigma. Lovely.

stuaff

Couple of guys I know have bikes from Burls, very happy with them, so I wouldn't rule them out.

stuaff

TailWindHome wrote:

If you were to go Ti would you not leave it bare?

SteppenHerring wrote:

although I'd prefer Athena EPS.

Sounds a bit effeminate.

Don't go there.

+1.

Wheelspinner

Il Principe wrote:

There are 4 things I would like:
1. The ability to choose the paint job - or a frame that come in black.
2. Internal routing
3. Designed to take EPS/Di2
4. Option to choose forks, stem, bars and external headset. (Thinking a mix of ENVE, 3T and Chris King)

So, Hive Mind, what are your thoughts?

Point 1: Check, choose any black you want..
Point 2: Check, as per photo
Point 3: Check, as per photo
Point 4: Enve, check, 3T Forks, check, Chris King headset is available although I *think* this pic is a Tune one,

It's only money.

Dooooooooooo eeeeeeeeeeeeeet...

Wheelspinner

p.s. I live less than an hour's drive from Baum's factory too, so if you send me a nicely signed, blank cheque, I am happy to go shopping for you!!

il_principe

Wheelspinner wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

There are 4 things I would like:
1. The ability to choose the paint job - or a frame that come in black.
2. Internal routing
3. Designed to take EPS/Di2
4. Option to choose forks, stem, bars and external headset. (Thinking a mix of ENVE, 3T and Chris King)

So, Hive Mind, what are your thoughts?

Point 1: Check, choose any black you want..
Point 2: Check, as per photo
Point 3: Check, as per photo
Point 4: Enve, check, 3T Forks, check, Chris King headset is available although I *think* this pic is a Tune one,

It's only money.

Dooooooooooo eeeeeeeeeeeeeet...

Erm, that's not got full internal routing, look at the top tube. Also Baum are not exactly on my doorstep and are overpriced!

I guess the other option is to have the Prince resprayed...

il_principe

Just seen that Velosport in Putney are a dealer for Legend who make some beautiful looking ti frames. I'm taking a bike in there to be serviced on Friday...

http://legendfactory.eu/Collection2013/tabid/96/language/en-GB/Default.aspx

asprilla

Those are some mighty pretty welds, certainly puts the joins on my Burls in the shade.

il_principe

Asprilla wrote:

Those are some mighty pretty welds, certainly puts the joins on my Burls in the shade.

The guy who owns Legend (Marco Bertoletti) used to build some of Viner's top end stuff, and has been around for years. Been ogling his bikes this afternoon and they look the nuts. Legend's cheapest ti frameset is £3400 for frame and fork... It's called 'Prince.'

Buggrit.

il_principe

Legend:

davis

I believe someone mentioned "Doooooooo eeeeeeeeeet!"?

il_principe

Cannot afford. Even if I sold the Prince.

If I get a new job and a salary bump & sell the Prince, then I'll consider it, otherwise no way, especially with a baby on the way.

As it stands I think I'm going to get the Prince resprayed in matte black with gloss decals. They way it'll match its stablemate and not show the winter grime.

rjsterry

By "mighty pretty" I take it you mean "damned near invisible". You'd do well to get fillet brazing that smooth. £3.5K for F&F is quite eye-watering for a winter bike though. There's a chap who used to work for Pegoretti, who has set up on his own and now sells through Mosquito Bikes in Islington.

spasypaddy

those are probably the best welds ive ever seen.

but like terry says, £3.5k for a winter full build nevertheless winter F+F is ridiculous!

I think you should get an enigma, and build it up with Ultegra Di2/Athena EPS and some mavic open pro rims on some hope hubs

rjsterry

Il Principe wrote:

Cannot afford. Even if I sold the Prince.

If I get a new job and a salary bump & sell the Prince, then I'll consider it, otherwise no way, especially with a baby on the way.

As it stands I think I'm going to get the Prince resprayed in matte black with gloss decals. They way it'll match its stablemate and not show the winter grime.

Persevering with the steel option a little longer, I'm sure that Donhou I posted was a lot less than £3.5K for the F&F, and it ticked all your boxes. Mind you, even a relatively standard Mercian with a ~£800 F&F comes to ~£3K by the time you've kitted it out into a complete bike.

spasypaddy

yeah unless you put 105/veloce on it and then wheels to match that kind of build.

I think the ideal winter build is:
Ti frame, and carbon fork both with mudguard mounts
Ultegra Di2/Athena EPS (no cables to get clogged up with dirt)
Alu finishing kit
most expensive brakes you can afford in either shimano/campag, so either DA/Record as stopping power is important in the wet/grime
Mavic Open pro rims (32h) with hope pro hubs

Pedals, tape, saddle to suit.

So i guess that is a £3k build...

davis

Il Principe wrote:

Cannot afford. Even if I sold the Prince.

Didn't we come to the conclusion that car ownership was averaging something like 3.5k GBP per year recently? I think it was you that asked, because you don't have a car...

Am I helping yet?

MaxwellBygraves

I don't own one and have never dealt with these guys before but saw one in flesh t'other day and it made me drool.

Owned by former pro I think: pretoriusbikes.com/Pretorius_Bikes/Home.html

ETA: there's a good review here with more pics: http://road.cc/content/review/61953-pre ... frame-fork

il_principe

MaxwellBygraves wrote:

I don't own one and have never dealt with these guys before but saw one in flesh t'other day and it made me drool.

Owned by former pro I think: pretoriusbikes.com/Pretorius_Bikes/Home.html

ETA: there's a good review here with more pics: http://road.cc/content/review/61953-pre ... frame-fork

Yes, meant to have Pretorius on the list. Ticks the boxes and London based.