Drugs in other sports and the media.

bompington

webboo said:

The censored one was through your rear end.

I was at the GP's recently and he told me I needed a prescription. He reached in his jacket pocket and looked surprised when he pulled out a suppository.

"Oh no" he said. "Some bum's got my pen!"







IGMC

larkim

webboo said:

I.V. , Oral, censored and Topical.

So assuming she is innocent, oral or censored is the administration route which would be "fault free"? Or would topical application of a substance containing traces of Ligandrol potentially end up in urine? Seems unlikely. I wonder how she persuaded the panel that she had consumed / retained sufficient medication from a small bodily fluid dose. I would imagine there were some blushes in the tribunal hearing.

awavey

bobmcstuff said:

The Gasquet one, less so, but coke isn't really a doping product either (in this case - apparently some cyclists have used it to counteract sleeping pill dependence).

I had to google what the excuse for that was...surely that means any roadside drug test ban for coke is potentially challengeable if that were the case it could be passed between people

Pross

I'm getting a bit fed up with the BBC's new obsession (led by Mr Roan surprise, surprise) with the Nike Vaporfly being 'mechanical doping'. I know we discussed it a while back and that the IAAF made a decision about shoe technology yesterday but that allows the use of the current generation of the shoe to continue and acknowledges they are widely available. The way the Beeb and the sport scientist they interviewed are going on you'd think the shoes propel themselves. It seems particularly ironic as most of the major manufacturers are catching up with the technology now and starting to introduce their own version but it feels like sour grapes from those pro runners who haven't managed to get a Nike sponsorship deal.

rick_chasey

Big ol' EPO bust.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/spanish-civil-guard-dismantles-massive-epo-trafficking-network/

The network then sold the drug through several websites to some 260 athletes last year alone. The athletes are reported to be amateur and professional and from various sports including cycling.

According to El Pais, the athletes’ names will remain private unless the athletes are sanctioned. The purchase and use of banned substances in sports is not a criminal offense in Spain, but is punishable by up a suspension of up to four years.

hmmm

TheBigBean

It passes your rozzer test, so is therefore proper doping.

rick_chasey

Yup

ddraver

Rozzer Test

*chuckle*

orraloon

Pross said:

I'm getting a bit fed up with the BBC's new obsession (led by Mr Roan surprise, surprise) with the Nike Vaporfly being 'mechanical doping'.

Do you think Roaneo has finally given up on his getting a gig on Icarus 2 so is edging over to runnists and what they (might) get up to. Good luck taking on Nike btw.

Or will we see sometime soon a new spider's web of bullcarp involving Ineos, Freeman, Farah, Wiggins, Leicester City... oh wait, not the last one eh.

awavey

not sure if this helps Iannones case or not but his team boss has said "Last year at the first test I put him on the scale and said: '[Team-mate] Aleix Espargaro weighs 10kg less than you. You have to go on a diet, change your workout'. Already by July he had lost 6.5kg by working hard. Why would he take an anabolic if he had to lose weight?"

quickly googles drostanolone and weight loss " This steroid can also be beneficial to runners and athletes that have to remain in a certain weight class...." ok so good luck with that defence then

bobmcstuff

Pross said:

I'm getting a bit fed up with the BBC's new obsession (led by Mr Roan surprise, surprise) with the Nike Vaporfly being 'mechanical doping'. I know we discussed it a while back and that the IAAF made a decision about shoe technology yesterday but that allows the use of the current generation of the shoe to continue and acknowledges they are widely available. The way the Beeb and the sport scientist they interviewed are going on you'd think the shoes propel themselves. It seems particularly ironic as most of the major manufacturers are catching up with the technology now and starting to introduce their own version but it feels like sour grapes from those pro runners who haven't managed to get a Nike sponsorship deal.

The argument seemed to be that its expensive and therefore detracts from the universality of running, or something...

Then it said they're £240 like that's meant to be shocking.

I was like, guys, have you seen Pinarello prices recently?!?

I thought they were going to say they're two grand or something!

Pross

bobmcstuff said:

Pross said:

I'm getting a bit fed up with the BBC's new obsession (led by Mr Roan surprise, surprise) with the Nike Vaporfly being 'mechanical doping'. I know we discussed it a while back and that the IAAF made a decision about shoe technology yesterday but that allows the use of the current generation of the shoe to continue and acknowledges they are widely available. The way the Beeb and the sport scientist they interviewed are going on you'd think the shoes propel themselves. It seems particularly ironic as most of the major manufacturers are catching up with the technology now and starting to introduce their own version but it feels like sour grapes from those pro runners who haven't managed to get a Nike sponsorship deal.

The argument seemed to be that its expensive and therefore detracts from the universality of running, or something...

Then it said they're £240 like that's meant to be shocking.

I was like, guys, have you seen Pinarello prices recently?!?

I thought they were going to say they're two grand or something!

I got a pair for my birthday. Most expensive shoes I've ever owned but a fraction of the price of a decent pair of deep rim wheels so it's not exactly earth shattering is it? It only seems to be the BBC that are bothered by it, Nike must be loving all the free advertising they're getting especially as the normal version of the shoe isn't getting banned.

I wonder if the expert sport scientist feels that the move to tartan tracks from cinder was mechanical doping and any record not run in bare feet on cinder should be expunged?

larkim

Cyclists I assume “get” the fact that £££ buys performance, and the best kit can help you win. That’s a really new feeling for runners, and it’s not just the Beeb getting worked up about it. Though there is huge misunderstanding about how the shoes provide the undoubted benefits that they do. For me they are just progress, and though it amazes me that other brands haven’t caught up yet there’s no doubt they will. Personally I wouldn’t wear them as I want to know what my performance is / should be just based on my own training and racing capability. But if I was racing for prize money, I’d pull them on instantly.

Pross

larkim said:

Cyclists I assume “get” the fact that £££ buys performance, and the best kit can help you win. That’s a really new feeling for runners, and it’s not just the Beeb getting worked up about it. Though there is huge misunderstanding about how the shoes provide the undoubted benefits that they do. For me they are just progress, and though it amazes me that other brands haven’t caught up yet there’s no doubt they will. Personally I wouldn’t wear them as I want to know what my performance is / should be just based on my own training and racing capability. But if I was racing for prize money, I’d pull them on instantly.

Yeah people talk as though the shoes propel you whereas the reality is they just don't lose as much energy. It's the equivalent of making yourself more aero so you waste less power on fighting air resistance, you still have to generate the power to start. I understand where you are coming from in the last sentence but ultimately any advantage you get is one off and then you're back to measuring yourself against your own performances. I was a bit wary about using them as a slower club runner but I passed plenty of others using them when I raced in them for the first time last week and they do feel great on your feet. My biggest worry is that if I use them on a marathon they'll encourage me to run at a pace I can't sustain!

rick_chasey

rick_chasey said:

Big ol' EPO bust.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/spanish-civil-guard-dismantles-massive-epo-trafficking-network/

The network then sold the drug through several websites to some 260 athletes last year alone. The athletes are reported to be amateur and professional and from various sports including cycling.

According to El Pais, the athletes’ names will remain private unless the athletes are sanctioned. The purchase and use of banned substances in sports is not a criminal offense in Spain, but is punishable by up a suspension of up to four years.

hmmm

Surprised this isn’t getting more attention.

Big busts only seem to happen when police are involved.

sherer

rick_chasey said:

rick_chasey said:

Big ol' EPO bust.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/spanish-civil-guard-dismantles-massive-epo-trafficking-network/

The network then sold the drug through several websites to some 260 athletes last year alone. The athletes are reported to be amateur and professional and from various sports including cycling.

According to El Pais, the athletes’ names will remain private unless the athletes are sanctioned. The purchase and use of banned substances in sports is not a criminal offense in Spain, but is punishable by up a suspension of up to four years.

hmmm

Surprised this isn’t getting more attention.

Big busts only seem to happen when police are involved.

Wonder who the cyclists were, no doubt it was other sports too.

I know EPO has a short detection period but surely with a test out there, you would have to be mad to use it now

bobmcstuff

larkim said:

.Personally I wouldn’t wear them as I want to know what my performance is / should be just based on my own training and racing capability. But if I was racing for prize money, I’d pull them on instantly.

But surely normal trainers are going to be slightly different to each other, and all trainers will be faster than no shoes... surely if you want to see how you are running based on your own abilities you need to go barefoot or something silly like that.

I found some minor benefit from going from rubbish old trainers to actual running trainers, so it's a bit of a funny argument. All kit will have some effect on your performance one way or the other.

iainf72

Sounds like telly in DK could be interesting tonight. Or sensationalist.

https://twitter.com/QuistDR/status/1224045143701016580?s=20

gweeds

As above. Also links Lutsenko.

Secret report connects Danish top cyclist Jakob Fuglsang with infamous banned doping doctor Michele Ferrari. Fuglsang, Astana and Ferrari have chosen not to give any comments @politiken @DRSporten @VgNettAnders https://politiken.dk/sport/cykling/art7634811/Secret-report-connects-Jakob-Fuglsang-with-infamous-banned-doping-doctor

No_Ta_Doctor

Bugger.

bobmcstuff

https://twitter.com/inrng/status/1224054522173181953?s=19

Rather than me just copying what Inrng said.

gweeds

Still, good that someone like Riis is back in the sport right about now as well.

No_Ta_Doctor

There's not a lot of meat on the bones of reporting so far, the CADF report itself (what's been said of it, at any rate) doesn't look like it had enough to put forward a charge. There are apparently "12 people connected to cycle sport" that the journalistic investigation claims independently corroborate that Fuglsang worked with Ferrari, though we don't know who they are or in what capacity they can do so. CADF don't have any physical evidence (pictures, wire-taps, even social media geotags) to put them in the same place together, so this is all looking like it's based on witness evidence of some sort.

My guess is that the report was leaked to the press because they didn't have enough, in the hope that the media would follow up. If nobody goes on record then it's probably going nowhere.

larkim

bobmcstuff said:

larkim said:

.Personally I wouldn’t wear them as I want to know what my performance is / should be just based on my own training and racing capability. But if I was racing for prize money, I’d pull them on instantly.

But surely normal trainers are going to be slightly different to each other, and all trainers will be faster than no shoes... surely if you want to see how you are running based on your own abilities you need to go barefoot or something silly like that.

I found some minor benefit from going from rubbish old trainers to actual running trainers, so it's a bit of a funny argument. All kit will have some effect on your performance one way or the other.

Yes, but I've run solely in "training" shoes for every race I've ever done, so whilst there will be marginal differences between each, in statistical terms it is just noise. Whereas the VF / Next% shoes are reportedly giving statistically valid improvements, more than other shoes have been able to evidence in the past.

So my first HM in 2011 is directly comparable with a HM in 2020 in some senses, though of course the route, the weather, etc all have signficant impacts to make one race less comparable to another.

gweeds

https://twitter.com/jakob_fuglsang/status/1224408487804968960

andyp

The wording in that statement is very odd. "I contest that I have met with Dr Ferrari", "..no procedure has even been opened by competent anti-doping authorities".

Is it mangled English or carefully worded?

No_Ta_Doctor

It's mangled translation.

The statement itself is just that he denies meeting Ferrari, no case has been opened against him, he has no case to answer and he doesn't like rumours.

johnboy183

Recreational use within rugby league (well one player) https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/51362118

rick_chasey

No_Ta_Doctor said:

It's mangled translation.

The statement itself is just that he denies meeting Ferrari, no case has been opened against him, he has no case to answer and he doesn't like rumours.

His problem is partly that his career started in the last (known) doping era, riding for a DS who was widely reported to point his riders towards doping doctors, and he's since joined a team with one of the worst doping records in the last 10 years in terms of positives.

No_Ta_Doctor

Yeah, I've never been that happy about Astana, and I've found it hard to get behind any riders that are with them - even Danes.

As for previous history, having started in the last known doping era, he doesn't really have a lot to show on his palmares for it. I know that he had an incredible season in 2019, but that looks more like a change of some sort than any continued doping.

The 2019 season itself was astounding, far better than he's produced at any other point in his career - which is a legitimate ground for suspicion, but it's also arguable that he's underperformed for most of his career (certainly if you listen to Danish TV commentators). Anyway, it's difficult to suggest that he's suspicious because his career includes the last known doping era and also suspicious because he's suddenly performing at a higher level.