On Line shopping - beware !

BigAirNig

Hi

I'm just wondering who has had problems with buying things on-line that turned out not to be as expected ?

I just bought some XT brakes from totalcycling.com in Northern Ireland and they were not as promised.

Because I was aware that some on-line shops sell brakes with the non-UK set-up >>
e.g. Left hand = FRONT and Right hand = Rear

.... I called them to ask before ordering. I was told they were the usual UK set-up > Right Hand = front etc.

When they arrived - it turned out they were the wrong way around - which left me in a dilema.

I had not planned on having to switch them over - which is why I asked before purchase. I wanted a simple fit & forget scenario! Not wishing to bother cutting hoses and/or re-bleeding etc.... likely to cost £20/25 per brake to switch hoses and re-bleed. (never done it myself and didn't have relevant tools/bleed kit)

I spoke to them to ask if they would be willing to do anything for me and the simple answer was NO .... other than return them. This would have left me without brakes for a period and I asked if they would cover the cost of my local shop switching them over for me, to make up for their mistake .... they said no. :evil:

A day or 2 later I got an email suggesting I return them and THEY would do the switch over & return them to me. They would cover the postal cost for me. I would still have been without brakes for about a week, so I made them a suggestion. [rather than miss a ride I had planned]

Rather than them having to pay for the postal return (next day delivery) + their labour time to change the hoses over & re-bleed + return postage cost + trips to post office ..... why don't they simply do me a partial refund for those costs towards my expense of getting the work done..... I'd be happy to give them a receipt for the work done, as evidence I'm not just trying to get money off/back.

Despite several requests for a reply - I have not yet heard anything - they appear to be ignoring the situation.

So all I can say people is be warned - when you shop - that some places are less than honest/decent in their approach and what seems an initial good price may turn out to NOT be the case, if you need your LBS to help sort something out.

I don't think it's too much to ask them to help me rectify their mistake in the simplest way for me, their customer.

It was their error / wrong information - in response to a specific question I wanted clarified before ordering. If they had not had told me they were as wanted I would have purchased elsewhere to save this hassle.

Be careful who you trust.

alfablue

BigAirNig wrote:

So all I can say people is be warned - when you shop . . . .

you may come to regret this form of words

Speed King, is it you :?:

BigAirNig

How do you mean ?

Who is Speed King ?

My only aim is that others don't make the same mistake I did with that shop - or any other...

bennett_346

I blame wiggle.

Plyphon

They have no gain from being dishonest.

The Distance Selling Rules in the Sales of Goods Act states you can return any product bought without you being present (IE: in the shop) for a full refund if you are not satisfied with the product, within reasonable time (Normally 14 days).

Because of this, they would make no money from you from being dishonest - if they shipped you a set of John Lewis Luxury Towels instead, you would of just returned them for a refund.

Sometimes, mistakes a made. There are thousands of products in bike shops - they can't know them all!

What if THEY we're told they had been set up correctly, and the supplier lied to them?

Ask them for a set of brakes set up as described (Ask described, not as you want - as described might not be UK way!) and if that isn't possible ask for a refund.

Then move on an buy another set elsewhere and live a happy and fulfilling life.

It's very unfair to jump to conclusions and drag a shops name through mud in public like this - remember these posts are indexed by Google.

craigw99

- just return for a refund if you are unhappy about their offer to swap the lines. - imo it sounded like a fair offer to me

BigAirNig

I don't expect them to necessarily know them all .... and when asked a specific question about the product being ordered by phone.... and giving an answer, then they have to realise the customer makes a decision based on the information given.

Knowing my requirement, if it was not that way, they could have informed me before shipping them out to me.

Then - when being informed about their mistake - I don't think it's a lot to ask for them to help resolve the issue in a practical way. My returning them for a refund leaves me without use of my bike for a period of time and having to wait for the refunded money to hit my account, [which seldom happens on the same day after any transaction is put through a machine in a shop] before being able to purchase another set somewhere.

They were offering to undergo some expense to rectify the problem (postal & labour cost) - but that would leave me without the use of my bike for perhaps a week (maybe more) when I had planned to use it. I think it made more commercial sense for them to simply own their mistake and offset that cost in a small refund to me for that cost element. It still meant I incurred an additional cost - but at least I would have been able to ride as planned and they could have shared part of the cost element I incurred.

That would enable them to 'move on' also .... and also gives me a reasonable solution.

If the supplier told them wrongly - then they could take it up with the supplier.... but as it's written on the box quite clearly - I don't think it's too difficult for the shop to know their mistake before sending me the product.

I'm not sure quite what conclusion you think I jumped to ?!

My mistake was not realising they needed to physically check the box before answering my question and I have learnt from that. Maybe others can learn from my mistake!

cat_with_no_tail

So.......... footnotes =

You asked how some brakes were set up and were told they were set up one way.
When they arrived they were set up the other way round (simple mistake to make by the person on the phone)
You mentioned this to the seller who offered a return/refund
You were not happy with this
They offered to switch them over for you
you were not happy with this either.

Why should they pay the labour charges your LBS will charge when they can do it theirselves?
TBH, it sounds like a simple mistake which the seller has tried to rectify for you.
I'd say just send them back and let them change them. It'll unlikely take any longer than it would to get your LBS to do it anyway.
Chill out dude, you'll live longer.

BigAirNig

You are right that their offer MAY sound decent without taking account of the specific circumstances and my reason for checking this element before ordering.

If it was a shop around the corner I could have taken them back and no worries - but it's not. I made a point of ordering in the knowledge they would arrive in time for a ride I had planned. The problem arose when they turned out not to be as per what I believed I had ordered so the TIMING then became important. Returning them for any hose-switch caused me a timing issue. If I had known of that requirement I would have bought elsewhere.

Anyway - I hadn't planned on getting in to such explanations and wasting any more time on the issue - just warning other people that if they purchase on-line and ask questions before making their purchase, they may need to consider whether the answers to those questions are suitably accurate, or if they need to have someone physically check the product .... if any inaccuracy would put them out in any way.

I knew that any such problem would cause me an issue and that is exactly why I asked the questions in advance.

My local bike shop could do the switch within a few hours quite easily - rather than the 3-4 plus days required for me to return them.

If they are going to incur a cost in my returning them, it makes better commercial sense to apply those costs [or maybe even less] to solving the problem for the customer in a way that keeps the customer happy. It's a rather short-term view to simply upset any customer without looking at the commercial impact. Also, they could potentially have solved the problem to my satisfaction for less £ than it would have cost for the return postage each way + labour time etc etc. which would actually be better for them anyhow.

WindyG

I don't really get what you moan is, it doesn't matter how aware you need to be as a buyer they made a mistake, it happens, yeah annoying but they have covered their obligations to rectify the mistake. Your frustration appears to be the fact you can't ride your bike. Next time why not buy from your LBS?

supersonic

A shop will charge £20 upwards to swap hoses and bleed. The postage is going to be a lot less. They have done everything required by law to remedy the situation, I can't blame them for not wanting them done by another place at excessive cost.

BigAirNig

WindyG wrote:

I don't really get what you moan is, it doesn't matter how aware you need to be as a buyer they made a mistake, it happens, yeah annoying but they have covered their obligations to rectify the mistake. Your frustration appears to be the fact you can't ride your bike. Next time why not buy from your LBS?

Yep ... a cyclist upset that they miss riding based on someone else's mistake .... that could have been avoided - you hit the nail on the head.... :roll:

BigAirNig

supersonic wrote:

A shop will charge £20 upwards to swap hoses and bleed. The postage is going to be a lot less. They have done everything required by law to remedy the situation, I can't blame them for not wanting them done by another place at excessive cost.

There are times when "what's required by law" is not always the best solution - even if it's the legal minimum requirement. Besides I have already explained the fact that they could have taken a commercial decision on what cost they would incur and offer something like that - to save their time/cost/effort ... whilst also keeping a new customer happy. :idea:

Plyphon

BigAirNig wrote:

If the supplier told them wrongly - then they could take it up with the supplier.... but as it's written on the box quite clearly - I don't think it's too difficult for the shop to know their mistake before sending me the product.

I'm not sure quite what conclusion you think I jumped to ?!

The conclusion you've jumped to is that the bike shop has "lied" to you.

Which in turn says you believe this has been done on purpose and with objective of getting ill gotten gain from you.

Which is simply not the case. It's a simple mistake. No need to make this thread and drag their name through the mud.

They can't let another LBS do the work and charge them because it would remove the margin they made on the product which means there is no point them selling you the brakes - they make no money!

You're dizzy if you think a bike shop makes £20 on selling you a set of brakes.

However they can do the switch as next to no cost in their warehouse as they no doubt have a large supply of fluid and hoses they got in bulk at trade prices = they still have margin on the product.

This is unfortunately how business works and sometimes when you order online these things happen - this is why bricks and mortar stores still exist even tho products can often be found cheaper online - sometimes people can't deal with the convenience VS risk tradeoff.

If everything always turned up perfectly, in a perfect fit, same day delivery, in absolute working order 100% as you wanted all the time, every time - we'd all be buying all our stuff on Amazon by now.

Northwind

FWIW, it's often possible to swap hoses without bleeding. And you would, most likely, have wanted to cut the hoses anyway as they're usually supplied with enough hose to fit an XXL downhill bike.

Storm in a teacup IMO. Yes they screwed up but they offered you a fair solution. If you want to walk into a shop and get things sorted straight away, then buy from a shop not online. But you can't expect to get the cost saving of mail order and the face-to-face advantage of bricks and mortar.

supersonic

BigAirNig wrote:

supersonic wrote:

A shop will charge £20 upwards to swap hoses and bleed. The postage is going to be a lot less. They have done everything required by law to remedy the situation, I can't blame them for not wanting them done by another place at excessive cost.

There are times when "what's required by law" is not always the best solution - even if it's the legal minimum requirement. Besides I have already explained the fact that they could have taken a commercial decision on what cost they would incur and offer something like that - to save their time/cost/effort ... whilst also keeping a new customer happy. :idea:

It's just too much cost for them it was never going to happen with a set of brakes. Plus you are assuming a local shop could book them in and do it quicker, might not be the case. They made their decision. I'd either go for the refund and shop elsewhere or get them to do it. Your solution might be the best for you, and it was their mistake, but the cost is prohibitive.

BigAirNig

Sorry Plyphon > I have not said they lied .... simply that the outcome was not as per the specific discussion I had with them, so your assumptions are wrong there.

I don't need lessons on business margins - I have a degree in accounting and work in finance - but thanks for your take on it. My suggestions to them could have resolved the issue, perhaps at less cost and effort whilst also keeping a customer who would likely have returned to them for helping solve the problem effectively, proving good service, rather than ignoring my further requests for resolution.

I weighed the risk .... which is exactly WHY I had a discussion with them before ordering over the phone, rather than just blindly going through a website !

Mad_Malx

BigAirNig - are you Thebigbee?

Similar name, similar theme?

viewtopic.php?f=40020&t=12831510

BigAirNig

Nope that's not me .... I will have a look though ....


edit > just had a brief look ... yes it seems the theme is similar. :roll:

Still no idea who Speed_King is - who gets a mention there too !? :?:

The Northern Monkey

Shit happens....

Chunkers1980

I didn't read one of your posts, TLDR. Whining on and on... You need to take a step back and have a think. Hope you get them back and there is enough hose for a tandem.

Rucks

Curious, you've ordered new brakes for your bike, you asked a specific question on order, they arrived and are not as requested, you can't send them back because it would take too long to rectify, and you need to ride your bike and cant wait,

Question, did your bike not have brakes before these arrived? Could you not use those whilst there sent back to be sorted?

Tbf you do come across as a bit of an ar$e

cooldad

Generally people buy online because it's cheaper. So next time buy them from your LBS and pay for the convenience.
Simple.

RevellRider

Can't you swap the hoses over yourself? All you'll need is an 8mm spanner and 5 minutes of your time. And unless you pull the brake lever I doubt you'll have to bled the brake

mherbie

While I understand your frustration, the hoses will be way to long out the box and shall need trimming then bleeding anyway.

DIESELDOG

cooldad wrote:

Generally people buy online because it's cheaper. So next time buy them from your LBS and pay for the convenience.
Simple.

Ooooh you're killing my business

Love n Hugs

DD

stuisnew

Agree with the other responses here. Sounds like they have been decent about it. Not their responsibility to consider if you have a specific ride you need them for. Sorry but I don't see the issue.

MountainMonster

BigAirNig wrote:

WindyG wrote:

I don't really get what you moan is, it doesn't matter how aware you need to be as a buyer they made a mistake, it happens, yeah annoying but they have covered their obligations to rectify the mistake. Your frustration appears to be the fact you can't ride your bike. Next time why not buy from your LBS?

Yep ... a cyclist upset that they miss riding based on someone else's mistake .... that could have been avoided - you hit the nail on the head.... :roll:

Here is the most important question, are you losing money because you can't ride the brakes? Nope, I don't hint so. I think you are just extremely inpatient, and think a solution to your problem will automatically fix the brakes with no effort. If you didn't have a holiday booked, didn't have a skills course booked, and don't rely on your bike to make a living, then you aren't losing money by the brake delay, so chill. Sounds like you just seem to be a bit "you" focused with regards to your decisions.

cooldad

DIESELDOG wrote:

cooldad wrote:

Generally people buy online because it's cheaper. So next time buy them from your LBS and pay for the convenience.
Simple.

Ooooh you're killing my business

Love n Hugs

DD

Yeah but standing on street corners soliciting is so 20th century.

BigAirNig

Rucks wrote:

Curious, you've ordered new brakes for your bike, you asked a specific question on order, they arrived and are not as requested, you can't send them back because it would take too long to rectify, and you need to ride your bike and cant wait,

Question, did your bike not have brakes before these arrived? Could you not use those whilst there sent back to be sorted?

Tbf you do come across as a bit of an ar$e

..... having ordered my new brakes, that should have been good to use from the box [again, that's part of why I asked in advance] .... I sold my existing ones. It's that simple. Rather ignorant/immature to insult a stranger, hidden behind your PC though.

BigAirNig

MountainMonster wrote:

BigAirNig wrote:

WindyG wrote:

I don't really get what you moan is, it doesn't matter how aware you need to be as a buyer they made a mistake, it happens, yeah annoying but they have covered their obligations to rectify the mistake. Your frustration appears to be the fact you can't ride your bike. Next time why not buy from your LBS?

Yep ... a cyclist upset that they miss riding based on someone else's mistake .... that could have been avoided - you hit the nail on the head.... :roll:

Here is the most important question, are you losing money because you can't ride the brakes? Nope, I don't hint so. I think you are just extremely inpatient, and think a solution to your problem will automatically fix the brakes with no effort. If you didn't have a holiday booked, didn't have a skills course booked, and don't rely on your bike to make a living, then you aren't losing money by the brake delay, so chill. Sounds like you just seem to be a bit "you" focused with regards to your decisions.

.... and you clearly make all your decisions based on people other than you :?: really ......


Spelling :

impatient [ɪmˈpeɪʃənt]
adj
1. lacking patience; easily irritated at delay, opposition, etc.
2. exhibiting lack of patience

I could have bought them cheaper elsewhere if I had wanted to wait longer. So, having spoken to them to see that they had what I wanted, my decision was then based on their information. If they had informed me correctly I would not have let my brakes be collected so swiftly by the buyer. My point is that various decisions were based on their information.... so when that turned out to be incorrect - it left me in the lurch. Maybe you would simply take that on the chin. I happen to expect slightly better service than that and many places do go above and beyond - but not that place. They didn't even seem to acknowledge their mistake.