HR too high?

willhub

Ok.

Well this is in contrast to the fact I was struggling to get it up. Now I can't keep it low unless I'm pootling.

If I relate the HR to percieved effort, here it is before I took two weeks off, and after:

Before:

Recovery - 110-130
Pushing on - 140-160
Balls out sprint - 190
TT Effort - 180

After:

Recovery - 130-150
Pushing on - 160-180
Balls out sprint - 200+
TT Effort (10 mile) - 195


http://app.strava.com/activities/23720210#

Is this a good sign or no sign of anything? It's just confusing me and perhaps I should ditch HR for good? I know I've been told it's not a good tool for training. In terms of actual speed I'm probably a little slower now maybe the same, just the HR speed has changed.

The other thing I have noticed is, looking at the performance stats you'd think I was taxing myself, but I feel I could do 170-180 all day like it's normal, and after that 50 mile ride despite riding yesterday and day before my legs just ain't tired, they'll be fresh as a dazy by tomorrow. So I'm confused.

schweiz

nutrition, illness, dodgy battery in your HRM strap?

B1ghubba

You'll never know
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/cycleops-powert ... ear-wheel/
until you buy one

Pross

Perhaps you had been overdoing it before the break, now you are fresh you are able to push harder for the same apparent effort?

mr prickles

excited by the return of strictly come dancing perhaps?

indjke

Heh.. I had almost the same numbers
But my readings are stable through the months. And it's strange that yours has grown just in two weeks... :roll:

willhub

I'm going out today to see if it's sorted itself out.

I'm not pushing harder for the same effort, the effort I was putting out 3-4 weeks ago at 140bpm is not 160bpm.

Unless I've just magically became super unfit in 3 weeks!

Pross

willhub wrote:

I'm going out today to see if it's sorted itself out.

I'm not pushing harder for the same effort, the effort I was putting out 3-4 weeks ago at 140bpm is not 160bpm.

Unless I've just magically became super unfit in 3 weeks!

Re-read. I was suggesting that you may have been tired before the 2 weeks off in which case you may have been felt like you were riding harder than you were hence your HR telling you a lower figure than your body was feeling i.e. the effort at 140bpm felt as hard as it does now at 160bpm because your body was tired back then.

Trev The Rev

In my opinion, this thread illustrates the problems with monitoring heart rate.

It leads to wasted time worrying and trying to fathom why it is so variable day to day, there are so many factors that affect it. Seeing as we can't measure stroke volume and we are only measuring the bpm it is better to pay attention to perceived effort, feel in the legs and how hard you are breathing etc.

For example, a recovery level ride one day may be a substantially lower heart rate than a recovery ride on another day. If you go only by heart rate you may in fact be going too hard. It is how the legs feel. Not how much power you are outputting or the heart rate. It is how the muscles 'feel' that dictates the recovery ride.

A recovery ride after a very hard day has to be very easy, easier than a recovery ride after a session which was not so hard on the leg muscles. A set heart rate band may not keep you going easy enough.

willhub

Yesterday over just short of 80 miles my average hr was 165 and 200 max, but I was doing 170-180 beats on the flat and my legs were under no strain, when I decided to batter it and make my legs start to strain I was doing a good 185-190+ and I could keep that up no problem.

I just remember how 3-4 weeks ago I was absoloutly battering myself into oblivion and struggling to maintain 180beats, and on another day I managed to hold 190 beats for about 1.5 miles and I nearly threw up it was that painful, it felt like an interval above threshold intensity. The same sort of effort over that distance now would have me holding 200 beats.

willhub

Maybe I'll just pop to the doctors, they usually just dismiss you once they know the sort of cycling you do though. I went out yet again today, I wanted to do a hard ride.

I set off feeling ok, HR usually sticking around 185-190 for first 25-30 miles, but then it started to drop and I struggled to hold over 185 and every damn hill I got to I was going backwards, but for the whole 56 miles I was averaging 173 beats, the same average heart rate as when I last did the route, but I could not hit as high, and this time, with less wind I was also 1mph slower, so something is up or the slightly cold temperatures are doing it, I'm in general a train wreck.

dw300

Mind you don't get committed due to your obsessive behaviour .. that would wreak havoc with trying to set new heart rate records!

Nice lactate threshold by the way .. even Gunderson would be impressed if you can tootle along at 190bpm for 30 miles.

willhub

http://app.strava.com/rides/24156505

Check the HR log, not exactly a constant 185-190 for 30 miles.

dw300

willhub wrote:

http://app.strava.com/rides/24156505

Check the HR log, not exactly a constant 185-190 for 30 miles.

I cropped that ride several times and your best 20-30 miles is around 175-176bpm average, I would have thought that's much more in the expected LTHR range for someone whose Max HR is in the 190s or 200s. You're not averaging 185-190 for an hour and a half, although you did average 184 for 6.6 miles (18mins). What is your max HR by the way?

I always see your rides when you upload to Strava, and you obviously push yourself. But to me you just seem to ride around as hard as you can go for 1.5 - 3hrs. You must generate a huge amount of training stress, and this could be why your performances are fluctuating if you ever do rides like these on consecutive days. Why not do some intervals where you're genuinely averaging 185-195 but for 5, 10 or 20mins, with rest periods afterwards, and call it a day after 30 miles so you can go out and do the same again the next day? That's assuming you train most days.

What you're doing is obviously making you fast .. soloing 50 miles at 18-20mph is a great effort, and I don't know how you feel on the rides, so maybe I don't have a clue what I'm talking about, but if you're suffering with insufficient recovery, then do your normal effort for 1 - 1.5hrs rather than 3, do the rest at endurance pace if you still want to cover the same mileage, and you should be able to perform better every time you go out. Your 3hr flat out rides would be better if you know you'll be off the bike for the next couple of days.

willhub

The highest I've seen it in the past week is 203, but that was not pushing 100%, I think I can get it higher.

I'm actually disappointingly slower at the moment, that might be the colder weather and more clothes and about 4 pounds extra weight + 1.1% extra bodyfat but that same route last time I did it I was averaging 21.8mph, I don't really go for average speeds I just hold a high effort. (when I did 21.8mph average on that route it was a harder day, windier, warmer, exactly same average heart rate)

I might do some intervals, I'm going to be riding down south in London the next couple of weeks, I enjoy the 50 mile loop.

My recovery is not bad, well I went out today and did 50 miles but clearly I'm not recovered, I felt it but my HR said otherwise, but leg tiredness goes away quickly, 1 day off the bike and I'm fresh.

indjke

willhub wrote:

The highest I've seen it in the past week is 203, but that was not pushing 100%, I think I can get it higher.

As I said, I have similar numbers and I'm sure you can push to about 210. This was my max HR during functional testing in the sportlab last Saturday (and few times I reached that on road). I dont mean you should try it ofc The most important thing they said me is "the heart is your limiter" (I train little-less seiously for the first year only, so no wonder IMO). And my winter prep mostly must contain low/average pulse cardio training.

I think you are in the same situation.

btw yesterday I met a friend of mine and he said that last year he had max of 200 and after winter spend on the trainer he now cannot reach even 190 bpm, actually his max now is about 185-186 :roll:

willhub

indjke wrote:

willhub wrote:

The highest I've seen it in the past week is 203, but that was not pushing 100%, I think I can get it higher.

As I said, I have similar numbers and I'm sure you can push to about 210. This was my max HR during functional testing in the sportlab last Saturday (and few times I reached that on road). I dont mean you should try it ofc The most important thing they said me is "the heart is your limiter" (I train little-less seiously for the first year only, so no wonder IMO). And my winter prep mostly must contain low/average pulse cardio training.

I think you are in the same situation.

btw yesterday I met a friend of mine and he said that last year he had max of 200 and after winter spend on the trainer he now cannot reach even 190 bpm, actually his max now is about 185-186 :roll:

I might have a go at some low hr rides but it's so damn hard and boring if I'm on my own, and if there is a hill then that's impossible, yesterday on a 5% gradient flyover I thought, right I won't let my HR go over 140 on this, I was doing about 7mph. I actually started to feel better when I just changed gear, span up a bit, let my HR raise to 150-155, that felt good, anything higher was straining as I was tired from day before, anything lower just made me feel sluggish and my legs sting.

indjke

willhub wrote:

anything higher was straining as I was tired from day before, anything lower just made me feel sluggish and my legs sting.

Then you've done it right IMO. Main thing is not digits on the computer, but our feelings

And I suppose that 140 bpm is too low for heart training for such "fastheart" guys like we. From my expirience it's more like recovery pace , or maybe lower boundary of aerobic zone. Having lactate 4mmol/L at 170 beats, I guess that the best cardio-training heartrate (that provides maximum heart stroke volume) must be closer to 150 bpm, maybe between 150 and 160 :roll: I'll know exactly when I get my test results