Religious banks
cyclingprop
Posts: 2,426
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19699581
I read this and wondered what the line between cult and religion was. Totally OT, but thought some of you might have an opinion.
I read this and wondered what the line between cult and religion was. Totally OT, but thought some of you might have an opinion.
What do you mean you think 64cm is a big frame?
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Sounds like my Marketing (CIM - no not that one you dirty buggers) membership. If I stop paying they don't consider me a member as well.
Seriously, it reads like you have to pay to be a recognised Catholic.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
I read it as the German State owns (and presumably maintains?) all the churches as they were nationalised in the 19th century, so if you are registered as religious (including Jewish....) then you pay an additional 8% on your income tax to cover these costs.
Eminently fair I'd say.
If you want to go and enjoy your bells and smells then, one way or another, you should pay for the priviledge. Be that through tithes directly to the Church, cash on a plate or taxation - what difference does it make?FCN 5 belt driven fixie for city bits
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How very odd. I wonder what effect that would have on church attendance here. With church schools requiring proof of your religion how many people would turn catholic for one financial year?0
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SimonAH wrote:so if you are registered as religious (including Jewish....)
Why the 'including Jewish....' in brackets? It's fairly obvious that Jewish isn't it? i.e. a Jew is a person who practises a particular religion. Judaism predates Christanity. Jesus, himself was a Jew...
Yes, OK in the past the word also identified a racial group of people but back then (biblical times and even now) people from that ethnic group also practiced the religion. Thus the word identifying the ethnicity is synomous with the religion IMO. This group of people have also been referred to as Isrealites and later Isrealis - but an Isreali is not necessarily Jewish.
Just saying.
I expect RJSterry to be over to be over in a second to tell me I'm wrong and JT to call me c*nt....Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:SimonAH wrote:so if you are registered as religious (including Jewish....)
Why the 'including Jewish....' in brackets? It's fairly obvious that Jewish isn't it? i.e. a Jew is a person who practises a particular religion. Judaism predates Christanity. Jesus, himself was a Jew...
Yes, OK in the past the word also identified a racial group of people but back then (biblical times and even now) people from that ethnic group also practiced the religion. Thus the word identifying the ethnicity is synomous with the religion IMO. This group of people have also been referred to as Isrealites and later Isrealis - but an Isreali is not necessarily Jewish.
Just saying.
I expect RJSterry to be over to be over in a second to tell me I'm wrong and JT to call me c*nt....
Because the tax was imposed in the 19th century, is still in force now, and was presumably in force during that abhorrent period when the German state was putting as many Jews as it could lay hands on into ovens. You'd have thought that the would have repealed the tax at that point no?FCN 5 belt driven fixie for city bits
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I'm not seeing the first sentence as justification for putting 'including Jewish' in brackets. Why wouldn't they, Judaism is a recognised religion and race of people - even in 2nd and 3rd Reich Germany.SimonAH wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:SimonAH wrote:so if you are registered as religious (including Jewish....)
Why the 'including Jewish....' in brackets? It's fairly obvious that Jewish isn't it? i.e. a Jew is a person who practises a particular religion. Judaism predates Christanity. Jesus, himself was a Jew...
Yes, OK in the past the word also identified a racial group of people but back then (biblical times and even now) people from that ethnic group also practiced the religion. Thus the word identifying the ethnicity is synomous with the religion IMO. This group of people have also been referred to as Isrealites and later Isrealis - but an Isreali is not necessarily Jewish.
Just saying.
I expect RJSterry to be over to be over in a second to tell me I'm wrong and JT to call me c*nt....
Because the tax was imposed in the 19th century, is still in force now, and was presumably in force during that abhorrent period when the German state was putting as many Jews as it could lay hands on into ovens. You'd have thought that the would have repealed the tax at that point no?
In answer to your last question: I don't think the existence or non-existence of the tax was relevant during the 3rd Reich era.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
Oh for pity’s sake DDD, take a deep breath.
I wrote “(including Jewish……….)” not to denigrate Judaism as a religion (I am completely unbiased – I consider all organised religion equally ridiculous) nor to denigrate the Jewish people (I have a Jewish sister-in-law FWIW)
I wrote “(including Jewish………)” as I thought it was a self evident absurdity that the German state should tax people for being Jewish given the history.
I guess it wasn’t that self evident – hopefully this second explanation hits the mark.FCN 5 belt driven fixie for city bits
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I'm not arguing I'm just curious why its an exception worth mentioning. To me its a given that it would be included.
Why would it be self evident if we are considering time periods prior to the 3rd Reich? They didn't always persecute Jews...
Do you think people, such as your sister-in-law, who believe or follow a particular religion ridiculous?Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
As I understand it*, Jewishness (as opposed to Judaism) is an ethnicity rather than a religion. One is Jewish by virtue of one's mother being Jewish.
And, Anti-semitism in that bit of Europe pre-dates the 1930s by some way, hence (among other things) the 19th century synagogues in East London.
*Feel free to correct me on this if I've got it wrong.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
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<bangs head lightly on desk>
Right all the D's. Take it out of the context of religion;
Let’s say that there was a requirement to register as a homosexual and pay a tax (in an era of goodwill) for being a homosexual. Let’s then say that the tide changed and the state decided to execute everybody registered as a homosexual. And went pretty vigorously ahead with that decision. Let’s say that the tide turned again into another era of goodwill – but that you are still not permitted to practice homosexuality in this same country unless you register as a homosexual and also pay a tax. You really can’t see an absurdity in this?
The article was about Catholics, but also applied to Protestants and practicing Jews – I didn’t feel the need to mention Protestants or Catholics as, at least to my knowledge, there hasn’t been any wholesale massacre of those faiths in Germany since the 1800s at least so having your name on a list probably wouldn’t have the same connotations. I also didn't feel the need to point out that Rastafarians or followers of Hinduism and Islam were NOT required to required to register and pay a tax. Even those who call themselves Jedi get away without paying (and that really can't be right :-) )
Regarding your last point, you are putting words into my mouth.
I stated that I found all organised religion equally ridiculous – not that I found people with religious beliefs ridiculous.
Your right to practice the religious belief of your choice is inalienable, and your reasons for doing so are wide and varied – usually (but far from universally) inherited. I am an atheist humanist; the best encapsulation of my code of ethics would be Huxley’s principle of ‘Enlightened self interest’. This means, amongst many other things, that I am not evangelistic about atheism – to be honest, a standpoint I find almost as unpleasant as people who are evangelistic regarding whatever theism floats their boat.FCN 5 belt driven fixie for city bits
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BBC website wrote:Germany's Roman Catholics are to be denied the right to Holy Communion or religious burial if they stop paying a special church tax....
That's a turn up. I always the Rock Cakes promoted the withdrawal method to those considering leaving a deposit :roll:Nobody told me we had a communication problem0 -
SimonAH wrote:<bangs head lightly on desk>
Right all the D's. Take it out of the context of religion;
Let’s say that there was a requirement to register as a homosexual and pay a tax (in an era of goodwill) for being a homosexual. Let’s then say that the tide changed and the state decided to execute everybody registered as a homosexual. And went pretty vigorously ahead with that decision. Let’s say that the tide turned again into another era of goodwill – but that you are still not permitted to practice homosexuality in this same country unless you register as a homosexual and also pay a tax. You really can’t see an absurdity in this?
No. As the tax predates the period of 'bad will' no one can say it was malicious especially if it extends to all other similar groups.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
I am not saying the tax is generally malicious for crying out loud! In my very first post on this subject I said that it seems fair enough to me!
The date of the tax has nothing to do with it, the comparitive religious practices or ethnicity of the German Jews has nothing to do with it, my views on organised religion have nothing to do with it.
I formally identify myself to you, the German State as a Jew due to an historic tax from when you nationalised religious buildings.
Using this list to identify me and every other practicing Jew, you the German State round us all up and kill us in such huge numbers that the Walther pistol was re-designed to remove the chequering from the pistol grip, as your officeers were getting blisters shooting so many of us in the head.
A few of us survived.
You, the German State still expect me to formally register as a Jew and pay an historic tax from when you nationalised religious buildings.
Really?FCN 5 belt driven fixie for city bits
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Litespeed L3 for Strava bits
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast.0 -
Yes, why not? What happened during the 3rd Reich was terrible, yes. But the law extends to all Religions and because I don't see Jews as an exception, I'm not sure why they needed to be by placing them in brackets.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
SimonAH has just explained why he chose to specifically mention them. It seems like a sensible enough reason, even if you don't agree with it. It wasn't because SimonAH doesn't recognise judaism as being a religion, it was because it wouldn't be completely impossible for the German state to say "our bad, we'll let you off the tax for a while to square things up".0
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I guess I'm owed my 40 acres and mule.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
I still don't get the reference to 'banks' in the thread title
FCN = 40 -
They should pay a tax esecially if Muslims, Catholics and other denominations do. The law has nothing to do with the War and therefore isn't a case of 'even Jews' < - - in brackets.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
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Then why put them in brackets?Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
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Rick Chasey wrote:Where on earth did "banks" come into anything that article said?
Too slow mate, i already asked that on page 1.
I think they are too busy worrying about semantics than addressing the wider question.FCN = 40 -
The jews own them all.Rick Chasey wrote:Where on earth did "banks" come into anything that article said?
Membership figures and longevity.cyclingprop wrote:I read this and wondered what the line between cult and religion was.
Why should J00z get off with not paying just because they were persecuted previously?SimonAH wrote:Oh for pity’s sake DDD, take a deep breath.
I wrote “(including Jewish……….)” not to denigrate Judaism as a religion (I am completely unbiased – I consider all organised religion equally ridiculous) nor to denigrate the Jewish people (I have a Jewish sister-in-law FWIW)
I wrote “(including Jewish………)” as I thought it was a self evident absurdity that the German state should tax people for being Jewish given the history.
I guess it wasn’t that self evident – hopefully this second explanation hits the mark.
Find me any religion that hasn't been persecuted (or for that matter, persecuted others) in the past.
That would be absurd, as there are no homosexual buildings for the state to nationalise and pay for the upkeep of.SimonAH wrote:Right all the D's. Take it out of the context of religion;
Let’s say that there was a requirement to register as a homosexual and pay a tax (in an era of goodwill) for being a homosexual. Let’s then say that the tide changed and the state decided to execute everybody registered as a homosexual. And went pretty vigorously ahead with that decision. Let’s say that the tide turned again into another era of goodwill – but that you are still not permitted to practice homosexuality in this same country unless you register as a homosexual and also pay a tax. You really can’t see an absurdity in this?
The comparison makes no sense.
Perhaps because their buildings were not nationalised and paid for by the state?SimonAH wrote:I also didn't feel the need to point out that Rastafarians or followers of Hinduism and Islam were NOT required to required to register and pay a tax. Even those who call themselves Jedi get away without paying (and that really can't be right :-)0 -
JamesB5446 wrote:
The jews own them all.Rick Chasey wrote:Where on earth did "banks" come into anything that article said?
Err.
You been chatting to your mate Mel Gibson recently?0 -
Good point, I forgot about them starting all the wars too. That should be added to the thread title.0
