Team Sky leaders for GT's in 2013
Comments
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The point I was making was that the 2012 Tour was probably one of the weakest TdF fields there has been and the 2012 Vuelta one of the strongest - Wiggins took his chance and good on him but I think he'd have struggled to beat Contador at that Vuelta and next years Tour isn't likely to favour Wiggins. He said as much himself before the Tour this year - that he couldn't miss it for the Olympics because the route was a once in a career opportunity for him.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
Contador just back from ban, and couldn't sustain attacks.
Valverde who tried but couldn't stay anywhere near Froome and Wiggins in the Tour, and hasn't managed to stay with the climbers at all since returning from his ban.
JRod who we were told couldn't do a Vuelta following a Giro, yet this year he's managing to stay with the leaders. IMO because the other two were distinctly average.
Nibali would beat all of them with ease.0 -
That'll be the ease with which he beat Froome at the Tour then ?
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
As for GT leaders for 2013 in Sky. If Wiggins WANTS it, he'll get the number one spot in whichever events he chooses. He has to want it of course and who knows what his motivation will be like next year after the season he has just had - as he said himself "it will never get better than this".
Personally I hope he goes full gas for next years TdF - otherwise I fear dirty Bertie will walk away with it.You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0 -
I don't think Wiggo is a great support rider, tends to lose focus and think of the pub. there's an excerpt from Millars book that highlights this. the year he came 4th (09?) he was supposed to be part of the lead out for the champs elysees sprint but went missing (then f*cked off to sky)...
he is still a great rider though and i hope he wins one of the big 3 ( hopefully the TDF).
As for froome he has the talent but as this year proved he was overused as a very classy domestique for wiggo. when the vuelta came through he just ran out of steam. shame.0 -
To be fair, its unreasonable to judge the Wiggo of 3 years ago with the Wiggo now. After the 2010 Tour debacle he got a bollocking and a half from Brailsford and Sutton, looked at himself properly, maybe even faced the possibility of the boot - certainly wasting his full potential - and knuckled down. The results are clear from his 2011 results and especially this year's.
Interesting article on him by Jeremy Whittle in this new mag, Cyclist - maps out how Wiggo's changed in attitude and what's driven him to do so.
Talking of the pub, according to Richard Moore who covered the ToB, Wiggo was not on the lash during it contrary to what some have assumed. Couple of Sky boys on the lash big time the night before the Stoke stage which the team buggered up, but not Wiggo. As for not being a great support rider, well, he supported Richie Porte for the GC at Tour of the Algarve in Feb, and led out EBH and Cav for 3 stages of the Tour, as well as helping Froome keep his head and go for the win at Planche de Belle Filles. Sounds pretty supportive to me.0 -
Turfle wrote:Contador just back from ban, and couldn't sustain attacks.
Valverde who tried but couldn't stay anywhere near Froome and Wiggins in the Tour, and hasn't managed to stay with the climbers at all since returning from his ban.
JRod who we were told couldn't do a Vuelta following a Giro, yet this year he's managing to stay with the leaders. IMO because the other two were distinctly average.
Nibali would beat all of them with ease.
Nibali?
Also anybody here who thinks Wiggins stands a chance of winning the 2013 Tour. Have a word with yourself. He's a good rider, check. He won the 2012 tour, check. It ends there, Check. 2013 will be a whole different ball game and Wiggins will be the first to admit that.
If anybody wants to argue against that, £100 of my hard earned cash says: Bradley Wiggins will not win the 2013 tour, and Vincenzo Nibali will NEVER win a Tour de France. anyone?0 -
Well, I think Wiggo's gonna ride the Giro anyway (100kms of TTs? ayethankyou) so I'm not taking that bet0
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Richmond Racer wrote:Well, I think Wiggo's gonna ride the Giro anyway, so I'm not taking that bet
Ok, ill make it even more interesting then, £20 also says Froome will not win the 2013 Tour. 0 -
Unless Sky fire up there tactics next year I cant see them winning the tour again (with anyone), lets be honest, since the Tour, they have been properly beaten by having 1 plan and sticking to it. I'm not sure who will win the tour but Im pretty certain if Sky has the same plan of using cart horses to pull Wiggo around they will get beat. I'm fairly certain Wiggos win was a one off. Brilliant achievement for Brit cycling though it was.0
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LeicesterLad wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:Well, I think Wiggo's gonna ride the Giro anyway, so I'm not taking that bet
Ok, ill make it even more interesting then, £20 also says Froome will not win the 2013 Tour.
ah...lemme think about that and come back to you...
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Daz555 wrote:
Did you miss this years Tour?Turfle wrote:Nibali would beat all of them with ease.LeicesterLad wrote:Turfle wrote:Contador just back from ban, and couldn't sustain attacks.
Valverde who tried but couldn't stay anywhere near Froome and Wiggins in the Tour, and hasn't managed to stay with the climbers at all since returning from his ban.
JRod who we were told couldn't do a Vuelta following a Giro, yet this year he's managing to stay with the leaders. IMO because the other two were distinctly average.
Nibali would beat all of them with ease. Nibali?
Also anybody here who thinks Wiggins stands a chance of winning the 2013 Tour. Have a word with yourself. He's a good rider, check. He won the 2012 tour, check. It ends there, Check. 2013 will be a whole different ball game and Wiggins will be the first to admit that.
If anybody wants to argue against that, £100 of my hard earned cash says: Bradley Wiggins will not win the 2013 tour, and Vincenzo Nibali will NEVER win a Tour de France. anyone?
At last year's Giro I saw Nibali beat JRod by 4 minutes (and by even more at last year's Vuelta).
At this year's Tour I saw Nibali beat Valverde by 36 minutes.
At this year's Vuelta I saw THIS Contador struggle mightily against them.
What on earth is so funny about Nibali beating JRod and Valverde easily?0 -
It's great to see people having the confidence to bring out the "Wiggins definitely won't do this and definitely won't do that" assertions of fact again.0
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Turfle wrote:Daz555 wrote:
Did you miss this years Tour?Turfle wrote:Nibali would beat all of them with ease.LeicesterLad wrote:Turfle wrote:Contador just back from ban, and couldn't sustain attacks.
Valverde who tried but couldn't stay anywhere near Froome and Wiggins in the Tour, and hasn't managed to stay with the climbers at all since returning from his ban.
JRod who we were told couldn't do a Vuelta following a Giro, yet this year he's managing to stay with the leaders. IMO because the other two were distinctly average.
Nibali would beat all of them with ease. Nibali?
Also anybody here who thinks Wiggins stands a chance of winning the 2013 Tour. Have a word with yourself. He's a good rider, check. He won the 2012 tour, check. It ends there, Check. 2013 will be a whole different ball game and Wiggins will be the first to admit that.
If anybody wants to argue against that, £100 of my hard earned cash says: Bradley Wiggins will not win the 2013 tour, and Vincenzo Nibali will NEVER win a Tour de France. anyone?
At last year's Giro I saw Nibali beat JRod by 4 minutes (and by even more at last year's Vuelta).
At this year's Tour I saw Nibali beat Valverde by 36 minutes.
At this year's Vuelta I saw THIS Contador struggle mightily against them.
What on earth is so funny about Nibali beating JRod and Valverde easily?
You conveniently left Contador out of that last sentence? Don't get me wrong, I like Nibali - he's a good rider, likes to attack, decent to watch. Just can't see him winning another Grand tour with his rivals at full health - he might bag another Vuelta that nobody else bothers to turn up to though.0 -
Nick Fitt wrote:Unless Sky fire up there tactics next year I cant see them winning the tour again (with anyone), lets be honest, since the Tour, they have been properly beaten by having 1 plan and sticking to it. I'm not sure who will win the tour but Im pretty certain if Sky has the same plan of using cart horses to pull Wiggo around they will get beat. I'm fairly certain Wiggos win was a one off. Brilliant achievement for Brit cycling though it was.
Since the Tour, not sure which races are you thinking of where they've been beaten 'by having 1 plan and sticking to it' apart from the GB plan for the Oly RR? At the Vuelta, by week 3 when it was clear that for Froome it was all about limiting his losses, they put guys into breaks with Flecha and Henao getting 3rd places and Porte getting beaten by Piti on the penultimate stage.
ToB - there was no 1 plan for GC (probably part of the problem), they got half the total stages
Other than that, post Tour Sky riders have won stages at the Tour of Denmark, EBH won Plouay and Nordhaug won GP Montreal0 -
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LeicesterLad wrote:You conveniently left Contador out of that last sentence? Don't get me wrong, I like Nibali - he's a good rider, likes to attack, decent to watch. Just can't see him winning another Grand tour with his rivals at full health - he might bag another Vuelta that nobody else bothers to turn up to though.
okay, what's funny about Nibali beating THIS Contador, the Contador who couldn't sustain attacks, and JRod who had a Giro in his legs (remember the 2011 excuses?) and Valverde who couldn't hang anywhere near Froome in the Tour?0 -
Turfle wrote:LeicesterLad wrote:You conveniently left Contador out of that last sentence? Don't get me wrong, I like Nibali - he's a good rider, likes to attack, decent to watch. Just can't see him winning another Grand tour with his rivals at full health - he might bag another Vuelta that nobody else bothers to turn up to though.
okay, what's funny about Nibali beating THIS Contador, the Contador who couldn't sustain attacks, and JRod who had a Giro in his legs (remember the 2011 excuses?) and Valverde who couldn't hang anywhere near Froome in the Tour?
The 'beating with EASE' bit was funny. Nibali has never beaten anybody in a GT with anything close to representing 'EASE', especially the likes of Contador who is a cut above. I wouldn't even rank Nibali in the same category as JRod when it comes to 3 week races (and yes, I know nibs has won the Vuelta before). Like I said, if Nibali finds it so EASY he will probably win a couple of Grand Tours pretty soon, but I say £20 says that Nibali will NEVER win a GT except maybe another Vuelta - and even so we know he only really cares about the Tour. (I know the bet is likely to roll on for some years yet...)0 -
Didn't he do well with that formula.RichN95 wrote:
He's peaked too soon.Turfle wrote:It's great to see people having the confidence to bring out the "Wiggins definitely won't do this and definitely won't do that" assertions of fact again.
He has been poodling (turning his legs over, that is) ever since he sat on the Throne at Hampton Court.
Yeh, I know he will be knocked off that seat next year as I doubt if he can repeat this years performances but he had a good run.
IMO. Just like Lucky, Lucky Roach in 1987.Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 19720 -
LeicesterLad wrote:Turfle wrote:LeicesterLad wrote:You conveniently left Contador out of that last sentence? Don't get me wrong, I like Nibali - he's a good rider, likes to attack, decent to watch. Just can't see him winning another Grand tour with his rivals at full health - he might bag another Vuelta that nobody else bothers to turn up to though.
okay, what's funny about Nibali beating THIS Contador, the Contador who couldn't sustain attacks, and JRod who had a Giro in his legs (remember the 2011 excuses?) and Valverde who couldn't hang anywhere near Froome in the Tour?
The 'beating with EASE' bit was funny. Nibali has never beaten anybody in a GT with anything close to representing 'EASE', especially the likes of Contador who is a cut above. I wouldn't even rank Nibali in the same category as JRod when it comes to 3 week races (and yes, I know nibs has won the Vuelta before). Like I said, if Nibali finds it so EASY he will probably win a couple of Grand Tours pretty soon, but I say £20 says that Nibali will NEVER win a GT except maybe another Vuelta - and even so we know he only really cares about the Tour. (I know the bet is likely to roll on for some years yet...)
I don't understand what makes you think JRod is in a category higher than Nibali, when Nibali has beaten him (with ease) in every single Grand Tour they've ever competed in.0 -
Turfle wrote:LeicesterLad wrote:Turfle wrote:LeicesterLad wrote:You conveniently left Contador out of that last sentence? Don't get me wrong, I like Nibali - he's a good rider, likes to attack, decent to watch. Just can't see him winning another Grand tour with his rivals at full health - he might bag another Vuelta that nobody else bothers to turn up to though.
okay, what's funny about Nibali beating THIS Contador, the Contador who couldn't sustain attacks, and JRod who had a Giro in his legs (remember the 2011 excuses?) and Valverde who couldn't hang anywhere near Froome in the Tour?
The 'beating with EASE' bit was funny. Nibali has never beaten anybody in a GT with anything close to representing 'EASE', especially the likes of Contador who is a cut above. I wouldn't even rank Nibali in the same category as JRod when it comes to 3 week races (and yes, I know nibs has won the Vuelta before). Like I said, if Nibali finds it so EASY he will probably win a couple of Grand Tours pretty soon, but I say £20 says that Nibali will NEVER win a GT except maybe another Vuelta - and even so we know he only really cares about the Tour. (I know the bet is likely to roll on for some years yet...)
I don't understand what makes you think JRod is in a category higher than Nibali, when Nibali has beaten him (with ease) in every single Grand Tour they've ever competed in.
Well, if we are basing this on recent performances as you are with Contador, Valverde et al. I can say I have never seen Nibali look as Strong in the mountains as JRod did in the Vuelta. It's all very well using history to say that Nibali has beaten JRod consistently but then you base your original argument on everybody else's current form?
Put Nibali in the Tour lined up next to Contador, Evans, Schleck, Wiggins, J-Rod and i'm pretty sure most would be surprised if he made the podium, let alone won.0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:Nick Fitt wrote:Unless Sky fire up there tactics next year I cant see them winning the tour again (with anyone), lets be honest, since the Tour, they have been properly beaten by having 1 plan and sticking to it. I'm not sure who will win the tour but Im pretty certain if Sky has the same plan of using cart horses to pull Wiggo around they will get beat. I'm fairly certain Wiggos win was a one off. Brilliant achievement for Brit cycling though it was.
Since the Tour, not sure which races are you thinking of where they've been beaten 'by having 1 plan and sticking to it' apart from the GB plan for the Oly RR? At the Vuelta, by week 3 when it was clear that for Froome it was all about limiting his losses, they put guys into breaks with Flecha and Henao getting 3rd places and Porte getting beaten by Piti on the penultimate stage.
ToB - there was no 1 plan for GC (probably part of the problem), they got half the total stages
Other than that, post Tour Sky riders have won stages at the Tour of Denmark, EBH won Plouay and Nordhaug won GP Montreal
Soz, I thought this was about Grand Tours, I did not think of ToD as a grand tour and the ToB is certainly not. I thought that meant Giro, Tour, Vuelta. Re the Vuelta, if letting others ride when the 'one plan' blows up is the plan then great. I still don't think the 'plan' for this years Tour will work twice, I do hope I am wrong though 8)
The Oly RR and the Vuelta (of the stages I saw) showed to me how their plans were worked over. Obviously the OlyRR was aimed to be a bunch sprint but, they were quite public in their aims and it backfired, ditto the Vuelta, Mums the word. All Im saying is that they need a rethink if they think this years TdF plan will work twice 0 -
Without knowing the GT routes, we're all just t*ssing off into our keyboards with idle speculation at the moment (ah, the forum...).
I'd be very surprised if anyone at Sky has any definite stance on who will be where in Italy, France and Spain: and right now, I'd be surprised if anyone there gave a toss - they've an embarrassment of proven talent to choose from.
They've created a uniquely commanding position for themselves: looking at their ludicrously strong roster for next year, I can't see any other team that can field a serious GC-contending squad to all 3 GTs like they can.
Still clinging to its strap-line of "The Hardest Race In The Most Beautiful Place" - and with the Vuelta's success still clagging it's ears up with maracas and Spanish omelette - the Giro will surely continue the trend for the showpiece MTFs. The Tre Cime di Lavaredo and Galibier have already been announced; this must mean that they've saved a couple of other complete git climbs for the route presentation on Sunday. My instinct is that a fresh Froome will go to the Giro with a preposterously strong climbing squad, including 2013 Tirreno-Adriatico winner JTL (come on - if ever there was a race made for him...), Cataldo, Henao, Uran, etc... Part of that is based on the view that once they've all digested the various GT routes, Froome will doff his cap to the fact that he still hasn't won a GT and that Brad should have the honour of defending his Tour title...
Another string to the Sky bow for the Tour will be that they won't have the Cav Distraction (incl Eisel) and will have 2 extra places to be filled by riders dedicated to the cause - like Geraint and that other weed Stannard (who I expect will have dropped a bit of weight and upped his power)?.
There's a warming thought to any rivals as we head into next July...0 -
'we're all just t*ssing off into our keyboards with idle speculation at the moment'
How dare! This is informed and expert analysis and prognastics!0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:'we're all just t*ssing off into our keyboards with idle speculation at the moment'
How dare! This is informed and expert analysis and prognastics!
100% agree.
Just to be petty - I love the way Nibali beat Contador and Purito with ease in Milano-Torino today (Thought 1 day hilly classics would suit Nibali's style and build much better than Alberto's)0 -
LeicesterLad wrote:Turfle wrote:LeicesterLad wrote:Turfle wrote:LeicesterLad wrote:You conveniently left Contador out of that last sentence? Don't get me wrong, I like Nibali - he's a good rider, likes to attack, decent to watch. Just can't see him winning another Grand tour with his rivals at full health - he might bag another Vuelta that nobody else bothers to turn up to though.
okay, what's funny about Nibali beating THIS Contador, the Contador who couldn't sustain attacks, and JRod who had a Giro in his legs (remember the 2011 excuses?) and Valverde who couldn't hang anywhere near Froome in the Tour?
The 'beating with EASE' bit was funny. Nibali has never beaten anybody in a GT with anything close to representing 'EASE', especially the likes of Contador who is a cut above. I wouldn't even rank Nibali in the same category as JRod when it comes to 3 week races (and yes, I know nibs has won the Vuelta before). Like I said, if Nibali finds it so EASY he will probably win a couple of Grand Tours pretty soon, but I say £20 says that Nibali will NEVER win a GT except maybe another Vuelta - and even so we know he only really cares about the Tour. (I know the bet is likely to roll on for some years yet...)
I don't understand what makes you think JRod is in a category higher than Nibali, when Nibali has beaten him (with ease) in every single Grand Tour they've ever competed in.
Well, if we are basing this on recent performances as you are with Contador, Valverde et al. I can say I have never seen Nibali look as Strong in the mountains as JRod did in the Vuelta. It's all very well using history to say that Nibali has beaten JRod consistently but then you base your original argument on everybody else's current form?
Put Nibali in the Tour lined up next to Contador, Evans, Schleck, Wiggins, J-Rod and i'm pretty sure most would be surprised if he made the podium, let alone won.
The point is I don't think the form of Valverde, JRod, or Contador was that impressive.
JRod who everyone has consistently said for years isn't great on long climbs, and Valverde who has been distinctly average since his comeback. Yet somehow they are able to stay with Contador.
The only way they were impressive was if Contador was at his best.0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:'we're all just t*ssing off into our keyboards with idle speculation at the moment'
How dare! This is informed and expert analysis and prognastics!
Excellent made up word. I'm always looking to embiggen my vocabulary...0 -
OCDuPalais wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:'we're all just t*ssing off into our keyboards with idle speculation at the moment'
How dare! This is informed and expert analysis and prognastics!
Excellent made up word. I'm always looking to embiggen my vocabulary...
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