Death of a Cruiserweight (page 5)

pastey_boy

Will start another thread featuring the complete bike as the below thread got a little sidetracked .
Had my Titus Solera a while now and although I love the bike, if I'm honest it is a little on the small side as i purchased it as a 54cm it was actually a 52cm (my fault as I never checked and only realised after owning it for over 2 years :? ). The new frame I have gone for is a Cube Litening Super HPT titanium, I picked it up heavily discounted from a german retailer (The complete bike retailed for 10,000 euro's). The frame is made by Lynskey and features heavily profiled triple butted titanium tubing, the product page states it is constructed from 3AL/2.5V ti but all web references to the Super Hpt say it is made from super expensive 6al/4v ti, either way I'm happy . It looks like it will build into a nice looking and capable bike and as I'm using my Titus Solera as a donor bike it should build into a sub 16lb machine.I ordered it today so it should be here early next week. All the parts off my Titus should port over with no problems although i will change one or two bits.
New frame

Donor bike

Spec list
Frame: Cube Litening Super HPT Titanium 1295 grams
Forks: Easton EC90 Sl 339 grams
Bars: Planet X Nano Compact carbon 210 grams
Stem: J&L Titanium Super light 102 grams 100mm
Headset: Crank Bros Cobalt XC 64 grams
Bar Tape: Bike Ribbon Eleganza blue

Front Brake Lever: Sram Force
Front Caliper: Planet X cnc Ti hardware 103 grams
Rear Brake Lever: Sram Force
Rear Caliper: Planet X cnc Ti hardware 101 grams

Shifters: Sram Force Doubletap 306 grams
Cables: Jawire outers, Teflon inners and Middleburn oilers
Front Mech: Sram Force + Kcnc band on adapter 102 grams
Rear Mech: Sram Force 178 grams

Seat: Selle Italia SLR Kit Carbonio Flow 128 grams
Seat Post: Titanium with layback and carbon clamp 167 grams
Seat Post Clamp: Gub cnc 19 grams

Cranks: Easton EC90 Compact 590 grams
Chainring(s): Easton Ceramic coated 50/36
Chain: Clarks Sl 10 spd
Cassette: Ultegra 6700 11/28 230 grams
Pedals: Speedplay X5 chromo 204 grams
Bottom Bracket: Wheels Manufacturing Ceramic 96 grams

Front Wheel: Shimano RS80 c24 629 grams
Tube: Foss Thermoplastic 75 grams
Tire: Specialized Turbo Pro 700x23c 201 grams

Back Wheel: Shimano RS80 c24 887 grams
Tube: Foss Thermoplastic 75 grams
Tire: Specialized Turbo Pro 700x23c 201 grams

Accessories: Smart wireless computer, Titanium bottle cage 22 grams

Weight: TBC

bigdaveskinnytyre

I'm well aware this is bad form however,

Titus Kebab

pastey_boy

bigdaveskinnytyre wrote:

I'm well aware this is bad form however,

Titus Kebab

Ha ha ha
It's late and I'm very tired so please excuse my grammar, the offending kebab references have been corrected to save my blushes.

russyh

Can't wait to see this build, please keep us posted. I love Cube bikes, they always look cracking. I'm guessing this will be no different !

pastey_boy

Russyh wrote:

Can't wait to see this build, please keep us posted. I love Cube bikes, they always look cracking. I'm guessing this will be no different !

As far as Cube bikes go I think this one will be rather understated compared to their normal offerings. I'm trying to figure out if i should carry the blue theme over from the Titus or just go for silver and black bits. There is blue in the Cubes graphics so little accents of blue may work.

pastey_boy

Just managed to remove the yellow and red graphics from my easton ec90 SL forks. I used fine emery cloth to remove them, they came off really easy and it left the carbon weave unaffected. To finish I will polish the area in question using extremely fine emery cloth and then apply some custom made cube decals that will match the frame I will then apply some lacquer.

awsm

Any idea which Lynskey frame it's based off? Tubing reminds me more of the Litespeed's of yesteryear. Look forward to a ride report, considering picking one up for myself.

pastey_boy

awsm wrote:

Any idea which Lynskey frame it's based off? Tubing reminds me more of the Litespeed's of yesteryear. Look forward to a ride report, considering picking one up for myself.

do

Don't think it's based on any particular Lynskey model, but all the frames they make for others carry lynskey hallmarks. As I have mentioned the the cube hpt litening super model is listed as having triple butted 6al/4v tubing throughout, if this turns out to be the case i will have found a major bargain, even if it's just 3al/2.5v triple butted it will still be a good buy, hopefully there will be a tubing decal to tell me either way. It's also listed as weighing 1240 grams which is the exact same weight as the titus solera frame I have just stripped down, so pretty light for Ti. The frame was dispatched yesterday so should be here before the end of the week so i could have it built up for the weekend.

marco70

I've found the same offer, but there some "details" are not so clear:
1- 2011 models had an internal cable routing (http://road.cc/content/image/22520-cube-litening-hpt, http://www.otest.co.uk/p/cube-tests/lit ... views.html). This 2012 model goes back to an external routing, maybe the needed to have a cheaper frame made from Lynskey ?
2- sizing is quite strange (i.e. 56 as the same specs of a "normal" 54, same for others).
3- on http://www.cube.eu every reference to this frame or relate complete bike is totally disappeared.
4 - in 2012 cube catalog (online) I haven't found any mention to any HPT model.

What's going on? Had Cube aborted this project and they're not going to provide any kind of pre-sales and/or post-sales support to it ?

Quite confused... :?

pastey_boy

I think it is an older model, certainly not a 2012, could even be as far back as 2008-2009 ish, recent models also had a tapered h/set and press fit bb. As for the sizing the 58 comes out as a med/54 looking at the geo chart on the site. regardless of its origin, a triple butted lynskey built road frame for £800 is a bargain, i just hope they have the sizing right. I do agree that the situation is a bit confusing regarding the hpt. i just think it is wrongly marked as being manufactured in 2012 which in all honesty suits me as all the bits from my old bike switch over easily. when i have the frame i will contact both cube and lynskey to see if i can find any further info.

pastey_boy

here are 2 images of the hpt super bike. the frame looks the same apart from the graphics. the bike dates back to 2008/9 and retailed for £8000.

pastey_boy

I'm guessing the the frames are old stock, I also reckon that cube receive the frames bare from lynskey and then apply their own livery so to shift some old frames they have just plastered them with updated graphics. i could be wrong but there is no other reference to the hpt ever having the above pics spec, re the octagonal tubing.

pastey_boy

I've just fired off a mail to Cube to see what they say about this frame, I will post the reply as soon as i receive it.

After a bit more digging it seems to be a 2009 frame with 2011 graphics ?????

marco70

Thanks pastey_boy, I've also sent an email to Cube (asking for 2012 HPT frame/bike infos), if they reply I'll post the answer.

awsm

I agree, it does look like a 2009 frame with 2011 livery. I prefer the Octagon tubing anyway though. Mind PM'ing the price after GBP conversion?

awsm

2009 Image:


2011 Image:


Shame it isn't a frameset, I quite like those white forks.

pastey_boy

awsm wrote:

2009 Image:


2011 Image:


Shame it isn't a frameset, I quite like those white forks.

Funnily enough I quite like the white forks too. I have sanded down the ec90 sl's and am in the process of making them a nice gloss white colour, I have a mate who will make me some custom graphics in a similar vein as the ones above so should be pretty close once the graphics are applied i will liberally douse with a quality lacquer.

ascurrell

I've watched your builds in the past, I'm sure this one will be as good a job.

What's happening to the poor old Titus?

Also whatever became of the Reynolds Etape stem I sold you, a nice piece of kit.

pastey_boy

ascurrell wrote:

I've watched your builds in the past, I'm sure this one will be as good a job.

What's happening to the poor old Titus?

Also whatever became of the Reynolds Etape stem I sold you, a nice piece of kit.

The Titus will be up for sale next week I stripped it the other day and theres not a single mark on it ,after a quick wipe it looks new. Probably try it around the £500 mark. I never weighed it when i first got it but was pleasantly surprised to find out it weighs 1230 grams. In all honesty I'm a bit gutted to be getting rid as its a beautiful piece of kit but i need the next size up . The Etape stem is long gone,I think it went on a mates Scott. Not seen any in a while

ascurrell

Shame I can't afford the Titus, someones gonna get a nice frame.

bencolem

I had a 2009 Litening HPT - basically a Lynskey Cooper with decals. It was alright - weighed quite a bit more than the 1230g you state and I found it a bit soft and flexy so sold it on!

pastey_boy

bencolem wrote:

I had a 2009 Litening HPT - basically a Lynskey Cooper with decals. It was alright - weighed quite a bit more than the 1230g you state and I found it a bit soft and flexy so sold it on!

The frame i have purchased is the Litening HPT Super. Differences include octagon tubing ans is made from 6al/4v ti, also both the HPT super and HPT feature triple butted tubing as far as im aware the Cooper has plain gauge tubing .

pastey_boy

Frame arrived this morning, and I'm still none the wiser. It weighs 1295 grams which is in the ballpark for the Hpt super frame yet one of the decals state it is made from 3al/2.5v tubing but the same decal states the top tube as being 535mm but the frame i have has a 546mm top tube.So due to the weight and shape of the frame I'm pretty confident that what i have is a 2009 Super Hpt Litening with 2011 Hpt Litening decals. I'm just waiting to lacquer my EC90 sl forks which are now a rather fetching gloss white. On a more serious note I was quite distraught to find that the drop out on the frame is red, which will clash terribly with my blue colour scheme.

pastey_boy

Here is as fas as I can go until i have lacquered my forks and allowed them 24hrs to dry. The chainset is subject to change.

cruiserweight

Hi Pastey, I'm about to pull the trigger on one of these frames but I'd like to be sure of the geometry numbers. The numbers given on the German site do not correspond to either the 2011 tapered steerer model or the 2009/2010 models. If I take the numbers at face value, it does suggest that these frames really were built as 2012 models. I think that Cube might have had problems with the pressfit BB and internal headsets, so went back to the old style bikes but with updated geometry. Would you mind telling me the headtube size on your 56cm frame? If your number agrees with the German website then I would have more confidence in the quoted numbers. Many thanks

pastey_boy

cruiserweight wrote:

Hi Pastey, I'm about to pull the trigger on one of these frames but I'd like to be sure of the geometry numbers. The numbers given on the German site do not correspond to either the 2011 tapered steerer model or the 2009/2010 models. If I take the numbers at face value, it does suggest that these frames really were built as 2012 models. I think that Cube might have had problems with the pressfit BB and internal headsets, so went back to the old style bikes but with updated geometry. Would you mind telling me the headtube size on your 56cm frame? If your number agrees with the German website then I would have more confidence in the quoted numbers. Many thanks

Hi
I actually purchased the 58cm model which is anyone elses 54cm, It has a 546mm c-c top tube a 143mm head tube and a 54cm c-t seat tube. As i have mentioned the frame i have is the same weight, colour and shape (octagonal tubing) as the 2009 hpt litening super but oddly it has the exact same paint job as the 2011 non super hpt litening so cube must have had a pile of frames and transfers left and decided to make a batch of mongrel frames, this is further backed up by cubes refusal to answer any e-mails i have sent. I'm not complaining though, I have a new frame which had a retail of £2400, a lifetime warranty and the offending wrong decals can easily be removed. sizing is odd but the chart on the sellers site seems 100% accurate. Also i must mention its a stunning bit of kit in the flesh.

cruiserweight

Thanks very much. Here's a link to a geometry chart for the 2009 Cube Litening Super HPT.
http://www.2009.cuberussia.ru/models-li ... super_hpt/
It's in Russian but still easy to discern (especially if you do a google translate). As you will see, the geometry is different from yours (the headtube in particular). I think these really are new 2012 models that were perhaps dropped soon after going on sale. The original 2009/2010 frames were often criticised for having very tall headtubes, so it looks like that was changed when Cube reverted to threaded bottom brackets and traditional headsets for the 2012 models. I am pretty sure that both 2012 models use the standard grade of ti with the difference being that the Super uses diamond shaped tubing. The diamond shaped tubing cost more to shape hence your model being a "Super". Lynskey use the same diamond shape on their middle to upper range bikes. The diamond shaped downtube on your bike wraps around the headtube thus making more resistant to twisting. It is actually a good thing that your bike is not the higher grade of tubing used on the original Super HPT because it was seamed and far less ductile. The "lower" grade can more easily be worked into more sophisticated shapes, as is the case with your frame. Lynskey prefer to use threaded BBs, standard headsets and standard ti for a reason. You do have a serious bargain because the going rate for a triple butted frame with that level of tube shaping is about £1500.Two years ago it would have been over £2000 but the price of titanium has plummeted since then. Congratulations on your frame. I’m about to push the buy button on a 60cm.

cruiserweight

Having studied the geometry I would say that your 58cm is more like a standard 56cm than a 54cm. I've just bought a 60cm frame which is comparable to a 58cm Cannondale Caad10 or Supersix. The (virtual) toptube on a 60cm HPT frame is 5mm shorter than a Cannondale 58cm but the headtube is 17mm taller (once the external headset is factored in). The seat tube length can more or less be ignored on compact frames. The marginally shorter toptube with a slightly taller headtube points to it being biased towards the sportive market. I'll be using mine as a luxury winter and turbo trainer bike. Let me know how yours rides

pastey_boy

I,m not too sure, as mentioned the decal noting the top tube dimension is incorrect by quite a margin and the weight of the frame is the same as the 2009 super give or take a few grams. the hpt had evolved quite a lot from the 2009 version and it seems very strange that cube would go back to a 4-5 year old design when the industry seems to be moving in an altogether different direction. i did see an article showing a 2012 hpt and it showed a tapered headset, pressfit bb and internal routing along with updated graphics, i will try to find it again. In the meantime i will try lynskey for some info, Ive had one of their frames and they seen nice to deal with so i might get an answer. regardless im chuffed with the frame i have .

cruiserweight

They probably went back to the old design for the same reason that Lynskey stopped offering the BB30 option on some of their frames like the Cooper. They had too many tolerance and squeaking complaints. Also other upscale ti manufacturers like Litespeed have previously had warranty problems with integrated headsets and moved away. They'll still do it on some top models but it is not quite as reliable or durable as the old standards. Also, the extra cost of tapered headtubes and pressfit BB shells probably made their 2011 frames too expensive for decent sales levels.

I have to stress that these frames are not re-stickered 2009 models. They have different headtube lengths. The German website buyers have confirmed this via their Cube rep. What you have is a 2012 model that is similar in shape to the 2009 model but with standard ti and a shorter headtube. I imagine the 2012 ti models were quickly dropped when the Euro went south. Also Lynskey now have mass distribution in Europe with companies like Chainreactioncycles so they no longer want or need to make frames for people like Planet X or Cube.

I had a look at the geometry of your 58cm frame. It is actually equivalent to a typical 56cm race frame. Your top tube measurement is a virtual 56cm (horizontal equivalent) which makes it equivalent to a standard 56cm all day long. If you needed a 54cm then it could be too big for you.

pastey_boy

size wise it seems fine, i have tried both a cube and van nicholas it 56 cm guise and they felt fine.im 5ft 10 and im short in the legs with a long torso so this frame with its 54cm seat tube should be perfect, with the saddle and post inserted i have a few inches of post on show. the 56cm van nic chinook i tried felt perfect reach wise with a 100mm stem, but the seat tube was too long. the cubes top tube is just a few mm shorter but the seat tube 20mm shorter so its looking good.