New Arrival

bigmat

Ignore them IP, if there are things you want to keep doing then you can do - I imagine your perspective and priorities will change, but there's no need to throw in the towel altogether. FWIW mine are 1 and 3, I'be ridden more miles than ever before this past 12 months. Has involved sacrificing other things, but don't buy the argument that you won't have the time or the energy. It just involves a bit of planning / compromise and a lot of MTFU.

clarkey cat

life is a piece of cake with a kid.

it doesnt look so rosy with 2 though. hence why we wont be conceiving until Baby Cat is 5 and in boarding school.

DonDaddyD

Il Principe wrote:

I don't own a car and have no intention of buying one for as long as I'm in London. I live in Wandsworth, where walking is quicker than driving, quite aside from the crazy expense of owning and running one of the bloody things.

I was giving this much thought and want to share my experience (every pregnancy and birth is different).

During the pregnancy we had to go to the hospital a fair few times to get a trace and some other stuff (I'll keep my girlfriends dignity), having the car helped because in an emergency you really don't want to be faffing with public transport, cabs etc and you really won't be able to walk there.

During labour I had to drive to the hospital a good three times. Then came the visits, Ms DDD was in hospital with the baby for 4 days, so I had to drive. Then I drove my family home, it was a slow but really pride filled special moment.

Even after the birth I found myself driving to the hospital for various reasons, none of which were such that it was practical to do anything other than drive. I.e. emergency. It is also quicker than having to wait for an ambulance believe me.

Then came driving to the doctors for checkups and other stuff. I can't imagine getting a train or underground to visit friends and family armed with a pushchair, changing bag and baby. Escalators are not your friend and not everywhere has a lift.

I won't debate in this thread as to whether ypu need a car after the baby is home and the family is settled. We did, we still do and I drive more now than ever. I would just say that from about 36 weeks onwards my car proved its worth time and again and maybe it is something you should consider.

Have you decided what hospital you are going to yet?

clarkey cat

my advice:

get a car (an estate)
steer clear of the NCT (lunatics)
dont spend crazy money on a big 'travel system' as you'll discard it at 6 months and get a cheap stroller.
keep telling your wife she is beautiful post-Baby.
keep cycling

bigmat

Clarkey appears to know his stuff.

DDD, whilst I agree that having a car is handy, I think you need to MTFU a bit. Carrying a pushchair up and down stairs is a rare opportunity to assert your masculinity in between bouts of changing nappies and goo-goo-gooing. Taking a baby on public transport is a piece of p*ss if there are two of you, lift or no lift. And you could have cycled to the hospital - where was it, St Georges? Its only a couple of miles! Pfffft.

clarkey cat

also - get your parents in for some baby-sitting action. I dont really understand people that wont relinquish their kids to the grandparents for a night or two. the oldies love it, as do the kids, and you get some much-needed chill time with the wife.

he says sporting a lovely tan from 4 days in Mallorca (sans bebe).

roger_merriman

clarkey cat wrote:

also - get your parents in for some baby-sitting action. I dont really understand people that wont relinquish their kids to the grandparents for a night or two. the oldies love it, as do the kids, and you get some much-needed chill time with the wife.

he says sporting a lovely tan from 4 days in Mallorca (sans bebe).

indeed as uncle i've looked after babies, they aren't made out of china.

rick_chasey

For what it's with IP, my father was never around for anything, so it can be done!

Gussio

Il Principe wrote:

Doom-mongers. I'll find a way.

Stupid babies.

Get a good pair of lights and ride at night. Its what I've been doing for 5 years. Best time to be in Richmond Park and who needs to see the sun?

il_principe

Rick Chasey wrote:

For what it's with IP, my father was never around for anything, so it can be done!

\

It certainly can. My father passed away when I was 2 and my Mum was pregnant with my sister. She managed ok, once the taxman had finished trying to take away everything she owned (if anyone here hasn't made a will, go and do it now).

il_principe

DonDaddyD wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

I don't own a car and have no intention of buying one for as long as I'm in London. I live in Wandsworth, where walking is quicker than driving, quite aside from the crazy expense of owning and running one of the bloody things.

I was giving this much thought and want to share my experience (every pregnancy and birth is different).

During the pregnancy we had to go to the hospital a fair few times to get a trace and some other stuff (I'll keep my girlfriends dignity), having the car helped because in an emergency you really don't want to be faffing with public transport, cabs etc and you really won't be able to walk there.

During labour I had to drive to the hospital a good three times. Then came the visits, Ms DDD was in hospital with the baby for 4 days, so I had to drive. Then I drove my family home, it was a slow but really pride filled special moment.

Even after the birth I found myself driving to the hospital for various reasons, none of which were such that it was practical to do anything other than drive. I.e. emergency. It is also quicker than having to wait for an ambulance believe me.

Then came driving to the doctors for checkups and other stuff. I can't imagine getting a train or underground to visit friends and family armed with a pushchair, changing bag and baby. Escalators are not your friend and not everywhere has a lift.

I won't debate in this thread as to whether ypu need a car after the baby is home and the family is settled. We did, we still do and I drive more now than ever. I would just say that from about 36 weeks onwards my car proved its worth time and again and maybe it is something you should consider.

Have you decided what hospital you are going to yet?

You lazy, polluting windbag

I live in Wandsworth Town, driving around there is slower than walking, it's constantly gridlocked. St George's is 3 miles away. There are minicabs everywhere + I have the brilliant Hailo app. There's a bus from our door to the hospital. Even if I have to take a cab everytime we go, it's still not gonna be more expensive than buying, insuring, and running a car. My folks live in Sussex, we can cab to Waterloo then get on a train and be met the other end. The journey will be quicker and easier than driving (I know because I've driven it many time before).

BTW if I have to go to the hospital and back without the family, then I'll cycle, because the journey is just a run down Garrat lane and bike beats car every time on that bit of road.

So to sum up - We don't need a car. I'd rather spend that wasted money on family holidays etc. I really don't understand the attitude of Londoners that insist on driving, thanks to you this city is a polluted, traffic jammed mess. I'd rather MTFU and carry a pushchair up an escalator than sit in traffic any day of the week.

Oh and of course all this avoids paying ridiculous parking charges where ever you go.

I accept that when we move out of London will need wheels, but until then I"M OUT.

veronese68

I hate to be the voice of dissent but I quite enjoyed, and still do, spending time with the kids. Still quite like the Mrs so I enjoy spending time with the family. my son is now 14 and we sometimes go for rides together and he has said he wants to do up more old bikes. This may decrease as he seems to have a new girly.
You may find you don't want to spend so much time on your own.

DonDaddyD

Il Principe wrote:

You lazy, polluting windbag

I live in Wandsworth Town, driving around there is slower than walking, it's constantly gridlocked. St George's is 3 miles away. There are minicabs everywhere + I have the brilliant Hailo app. There's a bus from our door to the hospital. Even if I have to take a cab everytime we go, it's still not gonna be more expensive than buying, insuring, and running a car. My folks live in Sussex, we can cab to Waterloo then get on a train and be met the other end. The journey will be quicker and easier than driving (I know because I've driven it many time before).

BTW if I have to go to the hospital and back without the family, then I'll cycle, because the journey is just a run down Garrat lane and bike beats car every time on that bit of road.

So to sum up - We don't need a car. I'd rather spend that wasted money on family holidays etc. I really don't understand the attitude of Londoners that insist on driving, thanks to you this city is a polluted, traffic jammed mess. I'd rather MTFU and carry a pushchair up an escalator than sit in traffic any day of the week.

Oh and of course all this avoids paying ridiculous parking charges where ever you go.

I accept that when we move out of London will need wheels, but until then I"M OUT.

Oh to be young and idealistic... Lol. I don't think there is a parent on this forum who lives in London and doesn't own a car... We can't all be wrong. Just saying.

Edit:

Have you researched into the maternity ward at St Georges?
Our options were Kingston, St Helier's and St Georges. We chose St Helier's, if we couldn't go there it would have been Kingston and I think St Georges is closest to my flat.
If you're happy with it fair enough.

rjsterry

Il Principe wrote:

Doom-mongers. I'll find a way.

Stupid babies.

I think the thing is that, all being well, given the choice of a sneaky 3LC at RP or an hour pulling stupid faces at Mini Principe/ssa, you'll probably pick the latter.

A car is very useful though, although I do live a fair bit further out than you.

Better work on that sprint down Garratt Lane: things can go from not-much-happening to in-the-next-20-minutes surprisingly quickly.

il_principe

rjsterry wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

Doom-mongers. I'll find a way.

Stupid babies.

I think the thing is that, all being well, given the choice of a sneaky 3LC at RP or an hour pulling stupid faces at Mini Principe/ssa, you'll probably pick the latter.

A car is very useful though.

Really? Say I can spend all weekend pulling faces, but have a 1 hour window for the bike? The bike's gonna win. Primarily because I want my child to have a fit father, not some fat, unfit blob who's gonna die of a coronary. Really don't want to lose the habit of exercising. Also, if I don't exercise I tend to get in really foul mood. I've always been a proponent of having a good work/life balance. Given that I don't work crazy hours or travel much, I really don't think finding an hour here or there is going to be impossible.

The missus and I chatted about this last night as she's also keen to try and stay in shape pre and post baby. Luckily my sister is a personal trainer so I reckon I might purchase some post-pregger sessions for the missus, which should buy some brownie points. I know people say she's gonna go mental, but I'm going to continue to bask in my (naive) confidence that all will be well.

And a car is still a no no. TBH with the missus not working I'm not sure it's a luxury we can really afford. I'd rather save that money and spend it on flights so we can go and she her family. That's far more important.

il_principe

DonDaddyD wrote:

Oh to be young and idealistic... Lol. I don't think there is a parent on this forum who lives in London and doesn't own a car... We can't all be wrong. Just saying.

Edit:

Have you researched into the maternity ward at St Georges?
Our options were Kingston, St Helier's and St Georges. We chose St Helier's, if we couldn't go there it would have been Kingston and I think St Georges is closest to my flat.
If you're happy with it fair enough.

It's not idealism, it's common bloody sense. Taxis will be just as easy and cheaper.

Of course I researched. We had Chelsea, Kingston or St George's. St George's scored the highest, is the easiest to get to and houses the area's Neonatal Intensive Care Unit (NICU). I'd kinda like to have that on site in case something bad happens.

Out of interest, what does it cost you to run your car these days, I mean annually and including everything, parking, fuel, insurance etc?

cyclingprop

Il Principe wrote:

Out of interest, what does it cost you to run your car these days, I mean annually and including everything, parking, fuel, insurance etc?

The answer to that is "more than N+1".

dhope

cyclingprop wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

Out of interest, what does it cost you to run your car these days, I mean annually and including everything, parking, fuel, insurance etc?

The answer to that is "more than N+1".

Really? You've seen the Dogma, right? A car might be cheaper.

But I'd quite like to think that were I expecting then I'd try to aim for a car free existence rather than just assuming that I'd need to fork out x thousand quid for something I've not needed since I sold my last car 7 years ago. Might not work out, but I'd certainly give it a try rather than admitting defeat before starting.

DonDaddyD

Il Principe wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Oh to be young and idealistic... Lol. I don't think there is a parent on this forum who lives in London and doesn't own a car... We can't all be wrong. Just saying.

Edit:

Have you researched into the maternity ward at St Georges?
Our options were Kingston, St Helier's and St Georges. We chose St Helier's, if we couldn't go there it would have been Kingston and I think St Georges is closest to my flat.
If you're happy with it fair enough.

It's not idealism, it's common bloody sense. Taxis will be just as easy and cheaper.

Of course I researched. We had Chelsea, Kingston or St George's. St George's scored the highest, is the easiest to get to and houses the area's Neonatal Intensive Care Unit (NICU). I'd kinda like to have that on site in case something bad happens.

Out of interest, what does it cost you to run your car these days, I mean annually and including everything, parking, fuel, insurance etc?

OK, just checking you're doing the research. Not trying to tell you what to do as your conclusions are your own and you'll find out the rest. Same with the car, I think you're being insanely naive - I would at least have the option of having a car, but it may work for you.

I've never and probably will never calculate the cost to run my car. It is bloody expensive but we still managed two holidays (a long weekend up north and one week abroard). I see no point calculating the cost of running the car anymore, my car proved its worth when:

My girlfriend went into Labour at 3am and we went to the hospital at 7am, 3pm and 8pm. The drive to the hospital to see my recovering girlfriend and newly born child The proud Dad drive home: there is no way I would have my new born child in a cab and no car seat. Being able to enjoy door to door stress free journeys to wherever it is we want to go. Avoid London rush hour where people have gone as far as to tell my girlfriend she shouldn't be using public transport at rush hour with a baby. Avoid 6pm onwards when the evening crowd comes out and everyone is drunk, loud and obnoixous. The fact that it enables me to take a pushchair, babywalker, travel cot, spare clothes, changing bag and any shopping - We wouldn't be able to carry these things between us and gives us the option to stay overnight. (There is a travel cot at both my sons Grandparents now). Enables me to drop my son and girlfriend to nursery and then drive to work - I like that.

But each couple and their circumstances is different. Having a car removes a lot of stress and adds a lot of convenience for us, so it is an expense I think is worth paying.

il_principe

dhope wrote:

cyclingprop wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

Out of interest, what does it cost you to run your car these days, I mean annually and including everything, parking, fuel, insurance etc?

The answer to that is "more than N+1".

Really? You've seen the Dogma, right? A car might be cheaper.

But I'd quite like to think that were I expecting then I'd try to aim for a car free existence rather than just assuming that I'd need to fork out x thousand quid for something I've not needed since I sold my last car 7 years ago. Might not work out, but I'd certainly give it a try rather than admitting defeat before starting.

Oh a car would be cheaper in the short term, no doubt. Cheaper but worse in almost every way I can think of. I can't really see a scenario where I wouldn't be able to get a cab or a zipcar at short notice, even at 3 am. There must be about 10, 24 hour minicab firms within 2 mins of our flat.

Sorry DDD, but I need to calculate costs here. I can't buy something that expensive without knowing roughly how much running it will cost me. Especially as we'll be a 1 income family come Feb/March.

cyclingprop

If you're really worried about it, you can do it between ambulance, cab and zip car if you are capable of planning ahead.

However, there are plenty of people out there who can't afford a car and still have babies. Those kids turn out fine. Go figure.

DonDaddyD

Il Principe wrote:

Oh a car would be cheaper in the short term, no doubt. Cheaper but worse in almost every way I can think of. I can't really see a scenario where I wouldn't be able to get a cab or a zipcar at short notice, even at 3 am. There must be about 10, 24 hour minicab firms within 2 mins of our flat.

Sorry DDD, but I need to calculate costs here. I can't buy something that expensive without knowing roughly how much running it will cost me. Especially as we'll be a 1 income family come Feb/March.

The Zipcar option may become really handy for you from 36 weeks onwards, maybe earlier.

Car costs about £2000 a year to run. But I could have bought a much smaller car that was cheaper to run. Probably will do next time.

Up until the start of this month we were a 1 income family (so 9 - 10 months). I had to factor the costs of running a car into the household costs, which I paid along with all the other bills.

DonDaddyD

cyclingprop wrote:

However, there are plenty of people out there who can't afford a car and still have babies. Those kids turn out fine. Go figure.

There is truth to this.

flimflam_machine

DonDaddyD wrote:

Oh to be young and idealistic... Lol. I don't think there is a parent on this forum who lives in London and doesn't own a car... We can't all be wrong. Just saying.

You think wrong matey. We sold our car last year because we simply didn't use it enough. It got may 5 runs out to our extended families (150 miles) away every year, plus some runs down to B&Q. Essentially we were paying close to a grand every year for it to rust on the road. That would have only gone up with the proposed hike in insurance for women.

We live 5 minutes walk from a huge supermarket, plus loads of other shops, so all our shopping is done on foot, on bike or online. We can easily walk to our kid's nursery too. Trips to the families are done on the train (nicely avoiding car sickness) plus a short lift at the far end. Trains and buses are fine to get around if you buy a lightweight buggy and you're reasonably fit. From what I can work out, IP lives close to a train station so he should be fine. We bought zipcar membership and have yet to use it.

I'd also note that we didn't have a car when little flimflam_gadget was born we didn't have a car. We had contacted some friends who work from home and one of them gave us a lift in. Then we got a black cab back. The one time that he's been ill enough to need to go back into hospital we called an ambulance and they got us all there faster than we ever could in our car.

veronese68

dhope wrote:

But I'd quite like to think that were I expecting then I'd try to aim for a car free existence rather than just assuming that I'd need to fork out x thousand quid for something I've not needed since I sold my last car 7 years ago. Might not work out, but I'd certainly give it a try rather than admitting defeat before starting.

If you were expecting I'd think the money you get for selling your story to the papers would more than cover the cost of buying and running a car.

DonDaddyD

flimflam_machine wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Oh to be young and idealistic... Lol. I don't think there is a parent on this forum who lives in London and doesn't own a car... We can't all be wrong. Just saying.

You think wrong matey. We sold our car last year because we simply didn't use it enough. It got may 5 runs out to our extended families (150 miles) away every year, plus some runs down to B&Q. Essentially we were paying close to a grand every year for it to rust on the road. That would have only gone up with the proposed hike in insurance for women.

We live 5 minutes walk from a huge supermarket, plus loads of other shops, so all our shopping is done on foot, on bike or online. We can easily walk to our kid's nursery too. Trips to the families are done on the train (nicely avoiding car sickness) plus a short lift at the far end. Trains and buses are fine to get around if you buy a lightweight buggy and you're reasonably fit. From what I can work out, IP lives close to a train station so he should be fine. We bought zipcar membership and have yet to use it.

I'd also note that we didn't have a car when little flimflam_gadget was born we didn't have a car. We had contacted some friends who work from home and one of them gave us a lift in. Then we got a black cab back. The one time that he's been ill enough to need to go back into hospital we called an ambulance and they got us all there faster than we ever could in our car.

Fair enough, I think everyone has circumstantial experience that could justify either way whether they do or do not need a car.

In my experience the convenience against the cost is an expense worth paying.

Jash, if you are not doing so, reading up on the babies development in the belly and the changes mum and baby are going through is a most amazing thing. There were days where I would sing to the Mrs stomach and the baby would respond (I'm getting all teary).

Also don't be afraid to start writing lists of things you need at home and on the day of the birth, and yes both Mum, baby and Dad need a bag - yours will be undoubtably smaller.

Discussion about pain relife will be coming up next. (Probably after you've sat an NCT/NHS antenatal class).
http://www.thebestof.co.uk/local/wimble ... al-classes

blu3cat

flimflam_machine wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Oh to be young and idealistic... Lol. I don't think there is a parent on this forum who lives in London and doesn't own a car... We can't all be wrong. Just saying.

You think wrong matey. We sold our car last year because we simply didn't use it enough. It got may 5 runs out to our extended families (150 miles) away every year, plus some runs down to B&Q. Essentially we were paying close to a grand every year for it to rust on the road. That would have only gone up with the proposed hike in insurance for women.

We live 5 minutes walk from a huge supermarket, plus loads of other shops, so all our shopping is done on foot, on bike or online. We can easily walk to our kid's nursery too. Trips to the families are done on the train (nicely avoiding car sickness) plus a short lift at the far end. Trains and buses are fine to get around if you buy a lightweight buggy and you're reasonably fit. From what I can work out, IP lives close to a train station so he should be fine. We bought zipcar membership and have yet to use it.

I'd also note that we didn't have a car when little flimflam_gadget was born we didn't have a car. We had contacted some friends who work from home and one of them gave us a lift in. Then we got a black cab back. The one time that he's been ill enough to need to go back into hospital we called an ambulance and they got us all there faster than we ever could in our car.

Abolutely agree, neither of us drive and so a car is not an option and we manage with Public Transport and our legs just fine. Plus you get to spend time with your child rather them being in the back whilst you drive. Heck for the cost of a car you can go first class everywhere on the train.

veronese68

DonDaddyD wrote:

Discussion about pain relife will be coming up next. (Probably after you've sat an NCT/NHS antenatal class).
http://www.thebestof.co.uk/local/wimble ... al-classes

Sorry, too unsubtle. You're plainly just trying to get him to start another thread so you can win Rolf's sweep on how many thread about ip there are.