Lance Armstrong-Where's the evidence?

sadlybiggins

Heavymental wrote:

Creatine, whey protein shakes, eating ridiculous amounts of food and plenty of time lifting weights in the gym is the formula. Rugby certainly seems to have quite an honest culture and a lot of effort goes in to becoming a big ol' lump.

I know it's OT but for me that's one of the problems with rugby, particularly in the NH. Too much of picking things up and putting them down again and not enough skills work. Anyway, back to Mellow Johnny.

Pross

RichN95 wrote:

Heavymental wrote:

Just to mention... and I've mentioned it before to a mixed response... A good buddy of mine has only just retired from playing top of table premisership rugby in the front row. As of a couple of years ago when I last asked him, he said he wasn't aware of any steroid or other drug abuse in rugby. I'll add that unlike most front row players he's a clever bloke (PHD and now studying medicine) and was definitely not lying.

Creatine, whey protein shakes, eating ridiculous amounts of food and plenty of time lifting weights in the gym is the formula. Rugby certainly seems to have quite an honest culture and a lot of effort goes in to becoming a big ol' lump.

Just passing on what I know from an insider at the top level (in England at least).

A physio I know who used to work in semi-pro English rugby (didn't say which team) tells a different story. He said they only did it in the off season to build bulk, but reckoned you had to do it for your own safety.

Welsh amateur rugby is absolutely swimming in roids - especially up in the valleys.

Yep, I know of a club player at premiership level who went 'injured' when the testers turned up and afterwards had to leave the club as he refused an ultimatum to stop. Some of the bulking up is no doubt down to the professionalism in the game now with players weight training daily and having nutritionists but I think the issue is bigger lower down where players are trying to make it into the professional ranks.

symo

Something similar happens in professional football.
Amazing the amount of training injuries people pick up.

heavymental

ddraver wrote:

pffftt...??? Dunno I never did it. I just used to have a bacon sandwich and a bottle of Lucozade on the way up (you can tell how good I was can't you...)

The idea was the ibuprofen stopped anything hurting so much (erm...) and the pro plus stopped you getting tired (more plausable, but not for 80 mins)

Caffeine is a performance enhancer often used pre-match. I think it's banned over a certain dosage... Googled.. According to this http://www.cptips.com/caff.htm it's 12 micrograms/ml urine in the US.

ddraver

Oh, well should have popped a few myself then....

fidgetyphil

Caffeine is a performance enhancer often used pre-match.

I tried a red bull before a time trial once. 10 minutes in I thought I was going to throw up.
I should of popped some Ibuprofen too. Might have stopped my undercarriage feeling like someone had taken a jack hammer to it.

Sorry, back on topic. Where's the evidence then, eh?

heavymental

Did Lance drink a lot of coffee?

RichN95.

fidgetyphil wrote:

Sorry, back on topic. Where's the evidence then, eh?

Travis Tygart of USADA has it. Once he has finished his 'Aren't I Clever' tour of the world's media, he'll hand it over to the UCI.

Matchstick Man

Heavymental wrote:

Unlike cycling, traditionally the only drug commonly abused in rugby is alcohol. I'm not sure if the culture has changed that much over the years.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/ma ... ague-drugs

The first bust for human growth hormone was in Rugby. If you are naive to think this was the first drug ever used in the sport, then you're beyond help.

Also, here are some busts from our very own UKAD about Rugby http://www.ukad.org.uk/anti-doping-rule ... tegory=541

http://www.ukad.org.uk/anti-doping-rule ... tegory=542

Matchstick Man

ddraver wrote:

It is something that the RFU/WRFU should look at, clubs are usually run on such tight budget that they could nt afford to do any testing themselves.!

Er no they shouldn't! This is akin to saying the UCI should look at testing when it's obvious they're the last ones who should be drug testing. Sport governing bodies are there to arrange a framework for the sport to operate in, they're not there to police drug testing. That's the job of anti doping agencies like UKAD or WADA or USADA or AFLD.
As we've seen, getting governing bodies to arrange drug testing is asking for trouble

bompington

Matchstick Man wrote:

Heavymental wrote:

Unlike cycling, traditionally the only drug commonly abused in rugby is alcohol. I'm not sure if the culture has changed that much over the years.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/ma ... ague-drugs

The first bust for human growth hormone was in Rugby.

Ah, but that's not proper rugby

Matchstick Man

bompington wrote:

Matchstick Man wrote:

Heavymental wrote:

Unlike cycling, traditionally the only drug commonly abused in rugby is alcohol. I'm not sure if the culture has changed that much over the years.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/ma ... ague-drugs

The first bust for human growth hormone was in Rugby.

Ah, but that's not proper rugby

Ba dum tish! I'll set them up, you bat them down

heavymental

Matchstick Man wrote:

Heavymental wrote:

Unlike cycling, traditionally the only drug commonly abused in rugby is alcohol. I'm not sure if the culture has changed that much over the years.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/ma ... ague-drugs

The first bust for human growth hormone was in Rugby. If you are naive to think this was the first drug ever used in the sport, then you're beyond help.

Also, here are some busts from our very own UKAD about Rugby http://www.ukad.org.uk/anti-doping-rule ... tegory=541
http://www.ukad.org.uk/anti-doping-rule ... tegory=542

Don't make me sound like an ignoramus! I was simply passing on an opinion from a top level player in the game we are talking about. That's Rugby Union. I'm still of the opinion that drugs aren't widely abused in the sport (union). I wouldn't be entirely surprised if they were but I'm fairly certain the ethos is against it.

Also to add, you can't always assume that someone built like a brick sh1thouse is on something. Some of the blokes built like oxen you see in the bars at rugby matches or just walking down your local high street have never even heard of anabolic steroids or HGH. I went on a stag do recently with another top flight rugby player (2nd Row). My god. That guy is a monster. He was no doubt a monster at school too. Genetics is cruel to us shrimps.

ddraver

Well true HM - but watch what happens when you put monsters/oxen on bikes and try and make them ride up hill! I could snap some of my cycling club mates in a ruck, but it sucks to be me when we re on bikes!;)

MM - calm down, it's only the internet, If it's WADA's problem then why isnt testing across all sports identical?

heavymental

True ddraver. I'm grateful for being almost half the weight of those guys when the road goes up. Rugby was never going to be my sport when i topped out at 10 stone.

Nick Fitt

I always thought LA was doping, he was suffering one day and killing the peloton the next. I always thought it was clever US Sports Science or treatments to stop cancer coming back. in reality he was just another cheating doper.

If you read this; http://www.scribd.com/collections/23833 ... -Armstrong it seems to me possible Cortisone (from memory) abuse at 7-eleven/Motorola could actually have given him Cancer. Its the most fucked up story I have ever read. If its true of course :roll:

Another bit of fun are these two storeys, first from The Independent and the other from the er Independent;

1. http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 72244.html

2. http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/gene ... 11896.html

I love the way FIFA doctors show concern that none of the players were injured as a result of eating contaminated meat, phew, what a relief!

Imagine our heroes at team Sky are clean (they are, they said so!), and as a result, the rest of the peloton are motivated to ride clean (they do too, they said so) AND then Sky dominate the Tour (s), how long before a team offers a bonus to beat Wiggo, the rider just cant do it though, so, BOOOM Festina(enter team name here) 2015 is coming.

If you are a top sports person, 99.235678 times out of 100 to be the best you will need to cheat, its just cycling take the publicity whack for all sports IMHO, eek, am I really that bitter.

Thank God none of our cycling legends doped eh

thomthom

Never been a fan of the cancer theories that relates to his doping. There's a great chance it could have caused it but so can toothpaste... I mean, we don't and will never know if there's a connection.

What we do know, though, is that Lance is lying, he's a bully, he doped and he is a pathethic sociopath - combined it made him a multi millionaire.
.

bompington

Nick Fitt wrote:

If you are a top sports person, 99.235678 times out of 100 to be the best you will need to cheat

Thank goodness that with all the ill-informed guesswork going on, someone has finally managed to quantify the prevalence of doping with absolute precision :roll:

Limburger

Matchstick Man wrote:

Heavymental wrote:

Unlike cycling, traditionally the only drug commonly abused in rugby is alcohol. I'm not sure if the culture has changed that much over the years.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/ma ... ague-drugs

The first bust for human growth hormone was in Rugby.

You know Terry Newton killed himself a few months after that article. HGH was the least of his problems.
More in the Pantani style of being an outsider under pressure (real or perceived).

rick_chasey

So what's the explaination for the increase in pack weight and size over the past 10 years if it isn't doping?

bompington

Professionalism innit? They just spend all day in the gym. Which isn't to say there isn't a lot of doping going on...

rick_chasey

Gyms.

That place where no doping happens.

ddraver

Gym work Rick! Professionals have been able to put the time into the gym to get that strong now*.

10 years ago Brian Moore played at Twickenham on the weekend and then went back to being a Solicitor on Monday Morning. Will Carling went back to the army, The Underwoods to the RAF where they flew fighter jets.

Rugby has only been professional for a vey short period of time. Whereas cycling from it's very ouset has been a purely promotional tool and totally best by cheating. One of the good things about rugby (both codes) is that the game is built around fair play and respect to each other and the officials. Now, clearly that isnt upheld all the time (ahem), but the culture is there - cycling is built around a culture of selling races, doping and cheating. hence why it is proving so hard to fix!

*Part of the problems with the scrum IMO is that all 8 people are no so strong the the forces that are generated are too much that can be held by a couple of studs in some soil, hence the number of resets. Plus if someone makes a tiny mistake packing down then they have absolutely no chance of being able to withstand the forces in that position so it collapses again...

Mikey23

Gyms huh. Been having a rather heated conversation on another site with some US folks who are body builders and weight lifters. There seems to be a prevalent attitude that its ok, everybody is doing it and all you need to do is have an idea what you are doing and what the dangers are. No problem as its only for non competitive use ie just to give you a better physique. They couldn't figure out at all what this fuss about good ol LA was all about. Very odd I thought

jawooga

RichN95 wrote:

oldwelshman wrote:

Matt Stevens :-) coke head.

More importantly. 6' 2", 19st 3lb - BMI 34.5. All hard work and diet, I presume.

Matt Stevens is right flabby fuck - BMI 34.5 is believable!

plectrum

Rick Chasey wrote:

So what's the explaination for the increase in pack weight and size over the past 10 years if it isn't doping?

beefcake ..... beefcake

ddraver

So now winner of race = doper and big guy = doper. Wow, that Clinic has got nothing on us!! :roll:

Got to be honest Rich it's starting to sound a bit like you ve got an issue with rugby players. Did they win the boat race on saturday evening again? Matt Stevens's figures are no more/less believable that any other elite sportsman's figures.

Anyway - It's also irrelevant, Even if rugby was the filthiest sport in the world, how would that make cycling less filthy?