Lance Armstrong-Where's the evidence?

2

Comments

  • carl_p
    carl_p Posts: 989
    I'll be glad when we can draw a line under this Larnce thing and move on. :?

    What are the chances of that happening?
    Specialized Venge S Works
    Cannondale Synapse
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    Genesis Flyer Single Speed


    Turn the corner, rub my eyes and hope the world will last...
  • juggler
    juggler Posts: 262
    Ginsterdrz wrote:
    I'm sat right on the fence.
    I'm not interested in hearsay from others, I just want cold hard scientific facts and figures so I can believe either way.
    Innocent until proven guilty?

    i understood that in criminal trials including murder the case can be judged on the balance of probabilities... obviously you desire a higher standard as to whether a bike rider cheated in the Tour de Frnace...jeez
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    Im sorry but do you know the ins an outs of the genetic mutations caused by cancer therapy/treatment and how it may affect blood doping tests. Cause if you dont, I would suggest you bow out this conversation and leave it to the big boys who are actually able to evaluate and understand biology and research methodology.

    This is the most splendid comment I have ever read.

    I have an image now of Lance accidentally pricking himself on a radioactive EPO syringe in a freak cancer healthcare accident, awaking after a feverish night to find he had haemoglobin producing superpowers.

    THAT'S Why he never got caught!!!!* Instead of spidy sense he had EPO sense where he'd get a premonition that the evil baddy testers were coming and so he squeezed in a quick saline bag!

    Holy Sugar NaD, It's all falling in to place! Mwah ha!

    *yes I know
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    Carl_P wrote:
    I'll be glad when we can draw a line under this Larnce thing and move on. :?

    What are the chances of that happening?


    me too. If nobody joins Floyd's whistleblower lawsuit and Feds keep his case suspended..both of which are likely, then what else can LA be talked about for? IF LA settles with The Times and SCA without court action, which is likely, then what other investigations are there? No sponsors as yet are going to sue him. ASO? If LA plays it carefully he will stay out of jail and keep a lot of money
  • Mikey23
    Mikey23 Posts: 5,306
    @ddraver... No. Criminal case have to be proved beyond reasonable doubt, civil cases on balance of probability ..
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    @Mikey - what about Spidey cases?
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • I'm sat right on the fence.

    With your head stuck up yer arse.............or Pharmstrongs arse.............

    It just gauling that people could be so niave and gullible...........but then a lot of people are.

    http://nyvelocity.com/content/interview ... l-ashenden
  • deejay
    deejay Posts: 3,138
    Evidence but I saw it with my own eyes
    I'm not a scientist but I am a practicable man that wasn't born in the last 35 years and that means I don't believe in Magic and detest anybody that is trying to "CON" me.

    I did see the Texan Fraud when he first arrived in Europe and along with many other "Clubmen" meeting up in Cafe's, Pubs or at cycle racing events where the topic could be the USA Joker who (and his backers) kept spouting about how good he was.
    He did make a fool of himself so many times to see him "Groveling" in to the finish (if it didn't get too cold for the little Mummy's boy) and nowhere where his mouth had promised.
    Then he had that "Luck" where he escaped the World Championship selection (Break) and as usual the others all watched each other instead of chasing him down.

    Then in the1996 Tour de France he dropped out in the first week and we heard, what appeared to be another of his excuses about "Loss of Form" and we smiled as he returned to Mummy in the USA.
    We forgot him easily because there was something unbelievable starting to happen (well, for the first time in 16 years I couldn't go to the TDF and with the Dutch rain with the Alpine Snow I was happy with TV) like some average pro rider Bjarne Riis that suddenly could beat everybody up the mountains. bollox.
    4 months later we heard about his testicular cancer and It took that long for that news to arrive because he had been just an average Pro rider in the peloton without much News worthiness.
    1998 and he was back in the Vuelta to get 4th place on GC and that surprised us that he could get so fit in 15 months.
    The high altitude air in Colorado must be as good as Kenya where the athletes train.
    1999 and bollox, he must have the same Juice that Bjarne Riis had because neither could climb mountains except with the Auto-Bus.
    I didn't believe it then to see another Bjarne Riis ruin the TOUR yet again and along with the Green Jersey Fraud of Eric Zabel.

    In 2002 I stopped going to the TDF (except I had to be in Alpe D'Huez in 2004) and stopped buying cycling magazines. (well the Internet became popular and so I don't have to see his face)

    Please don't allow History to show a Lying scumbag being a Seven time winner.
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,462
    Ginsterdrz wrote:
    I'm not naive enough to believe doping goes on BUT.........

    Interesting starting point :lol:
  • Please don't allow History to show a Lying scumbag being a Seven time winner

    Or any other winner from '91 > 2010 (Satre's win possibly excepted)
  • Good job other sprorts don't have a doping problem.................

    http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.co.uk/

    Wonder how may preimershit footballers are at it.........
  • bockers
    bockers Posts: 146
    Rugby certainly has.
  • Rugby certainly has

    Union of League ?

    I wouldn't have thought those public schoolboy toff rugger types to dabble in doping.................perish the thought..........

    And of course those well ard nothern leagers don't need to anyway.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    There's no doping in tennis. David Walsh said so on Talksport. He said it was different from cycling as the players looked tired.

    And there's no drugs in rugby either otherwise him and Kimmage, who write about rugby more than cycling would have never mentioned it. It strange that you could write a whole book about a rugby played who was paralysed in a collapsed scrum and never once question prop forwards with a BMI of 30 of pure muscle.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • He said it was different from cycling as the players looked tired.

    He couldn't have been watching Nadel........or noticed the fact that Nadel loos=ks like a weightlifter..............
  • RichN95 wrote:
    There's no doping in tennis. David Walsh said so on Talksport. He said it was different from cycling as the players looked tired.

    And there's no drugs in rugby either otherwise him and Kimmage, who write about rugby more than cycling would have never mentioned it. It strange that you could write a whole book about a rugby played who was paralysed in a collapsed scrum and never once question prop forwards with a BMI of 30 of pure muscle.
    Matt Stevens :-) coke head. Many others to, remember Dalagllio set up? ;-) They just dont get caught as often!!
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Matt Stevens :-) coke head.
    More importantly. 6' 2", 19st 3lb - BMI 34.5. All hard work and diet, I presume.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Or any other winner from '91 > 2010 (Satre's win possibly excepted)

    Why stop at '91 and the Tour de France?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_do ... in_cycling

    That's just doping, didn't Willy Voet talk of riders climbing into team cars only to get back on their bikes just before the finish?
  • Just to mention... and I've mentioned it before to a mixed response... A good buddy of mine has only just retired from playing top of table premisership rugby in the front row. As of a couple of years ago when I last asked him, he said he wasn't aware of any steroid or other drug abuse in rugby. I'll add that unlike most front row players he's a clever bloke (PHD and now studying medicine) and was definately not lying.

    Creatine, whey protein shakes, eating ridiculous amounts of food and plenty of time lifting weights in the gym is the formula. Rugby certainly seems to have quite an honest culture and a lot of effort goes in to becoming a big ol' lump.

    Just passing on what I know from an insider at the top level (in England at least).
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Just to mention... and I've mentioned it before to a mixed response... A good buddy of mine has only just retired from playing top of table premisership rugby in the front row. As of a couple of years ago when I last asked him, he said he wasn't aware of any steroid or other drug abuse in rugby. I'll add that unlike most front row players he's a clever bloke (PHD and now studying medicine) and was definitely not lying.

    Creatine, whey protein shakes, eating ridiculous amounts of food and plenty of time lifting weights in the gym is the formula. Rugby certainly seems to have quite an honest culture and a lot of effort goes in to becoming a big ol' lump.

    Just passing on what I know from an insider at the top level (in England at least).
    A physio I know who used to work in semi-pro English rugby (didn't say which team) tells a different story. He said they only did it in the off season to build bulk, but reckoned you had to do it for your own safety.

    Welsh amateur rugby is absolutely swimming in roids - especially up in the valleys.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    RichN95 wrote:
    There's no doping in tennis. David Walsh said so on Talksport. He said it was different from cycling as the players looked tired.

    Hehe. Good one. Almost didn't catch the sarcasm.
  • RichN95 wrote:
    Just to mention... and I've mentioned it before to a mixed response... A good buddy of mine has only just retired from playing top of table premisership rugby in the front row. As of a couple of years ago when I last asked him, he said he wasn't aware of any steroid or other drug abuse in rugby. I'll add that unlike most front row players he's a clever bloke (PHD and now studying medicine) and was definitely not lying.

    Creatine, whey protein shakes, eating ridiculous amounts of food and plenty of time lifting weights in the gym is the formula. Rugby certainly seems to have quite an honest culture and a lot of effort goes in to becoming a big ol' lump.

    Just passing on what I know from an insider at the top level (in England at least).
    A physio I know who used to work in semi-pro English rugby (didn't say which team) tells a different story. He said they only did it in the off season to build bulk, but reckoned you had to do it for your own safety.

    Welsh amateur rugby is absolutely swimming in roids - especially up in the valleys.

    Semi Pro might be the difference there. If they're not able to train every day like the pros then drugs is the way forward? For the pros, having gym sessions pretty much every day and the rest of the day to stuff your face is a good recipe for bulking up. And how many young roiders make it into pro rugby? Being beefy doesn't make you a good rugby player. Only a theory but is taking roids for a more solitary kind of 'athlete'? Bodybuilders who can theoretically train their whole career without working out with someone else? I know that the comraderie and banter in a rugby changing room leaves few personal secrets and players are soon called up on any wrongdoings.

    Unlike cycling, traditionally the only drug commonly abused in rugby is alcohol. I'm not sure if the culture has changed that much over the years.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    With Heavy Mental here. Search for All Black training videos on YouTube, nearly all of them are in the gym!

    But also with Rich! Even at my crap level there were players doing steroid courses (but never doing the training to benefit from them) and people would commonly be dosing themselves up with massive amounts of ibuprofen and pro plus before matches. It is something that the RFU/WRFU should look at, clubs are usually run on such tight budget that they could nt afford to do any testing themselves.

    As much as it pains me to say it, Wales are nt better becasue they re bigger, they re better because they have finally got a coach that has improved their technical ability, pulled the players heads out their arses/hairdressers and made the country realise that beating a crap England team does nt make a season!
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • ddraver wrote:
    With Heavy Mental here. Search for All Black training videos on YouTube, nearly all of them are in the gym!

    Have you tried searching You Tube for All Blacks taking seroids videos?
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    I confess I have not :D
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • If that's a confession you should have at least tied it into a book deal
  • bigdawg
    bigdawg Posts: 672
    Good job other sprorts don't have a doping problem.................

    http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.co.uk/

    Wonder how may preimershit footballers are at it.........


    Too many - a couple of years ago there were quite a few cases of young European players dying in their sleep and even this year the guy that collapsed on the field was just a bit too suspicious..
    dont knock on death\'s door.....

    Ring the bell and leg it...that really pi**es him off....
  • dosing themselves up with massive amounts of ibuprofen and pro plus


    What the bloody hell does that achieve, out of interest?
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    pffftt...??? Dunno I never did it. I just used to have a bacon sandwich and a bottle of Lucozade on the way up (you can tell how good I was can't you...)

    The idea was the ibuprofen stopped anything hurting so much (erm...) and the pro plus stopped you getting tired (more plausable, but not for 80 mins)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    RichN95 wrote:
    Just to mention... and I've mentioned it before to a mixed response... A good buddy of mine has only just retired from playing top of table premisership rugby in the front row. As of a couple of years ago when I last asked him, he said he wasn't aware of any steroid or other drug abuse in rugby. I'll add that unlike most front row players he's a clever bloke (PHD and now studying medicine) and was definitely not lying.

    Creatine, whey protein shakes, eating ridiculous amounts of food and plenty of time lifting weights in the gym is the formula. Rugby certainly seems to have quite an honest culture and a lot of effort goes in to becoming a big ol' lump.

    Just passing on what I know from an insider at the top level (in England at least).
    A physio I know who used to work in semi-pro English rugby (didn't say which team) tells a different story. He said they only did it in the off season to build bulk, but reckoned you had to do it for your own safety.

    Welsh amateur rugby is absolutely swimming in roids - especially up in the valleys.

    Not actually playing, or indeed being interested in, rugby is no bar to this pastime.
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