Two female police officers killed.

upperoilcan

What on earth is happening to this country ?????

napoleond

My head is in a bit of a spin, just woke up to this news. I'll find out a lot more in work tonight but god knows how their family/friends/close colleagues feel.

Cleat Eastwood

and the main news up here was about the kate-tits out photos - absolutely f*cking beggars belief. Shocking news - sympathies to her family and colleagues.

CYCLESPORT1

I used to live about 4 miles from that area, Ian Brady/Hindley did as well and Dr Shipman :roll:

styxd

Such sad news

Frank the tank

It truely beggars belief.

R.I.P. and condolence to the families of the two officers.

d4evr

May they Rest In Peace.

ilm_zero7

lured to their deaths - time for the death penalty for such an evil act... not worth spend a penny on him keeping him alive in prison

napoleond

Tonight's shift has been very sombre so far. Clearly the criminal populace don't give a sh!t as I have had my usual barrage of abuse...

fatreg

I do hope the evil SOAB gets exactly what he deserves, his knackers cut off with a rusty knife in full view of paying public who then take it in turn to repeatedly kick and punch him until his sorry excuse for a life is over.

To kill 2 Police officers is cowardly, to lure them to their death is evil and twisted.

However, knowing this country as it is he'll get banged up, claim he's mental, get confirmed and tariff reduced and eventually released, when the boot is on the other foot however; Ian Tomlinson, John Charles de Menezes to name 2 off the top of my head, it's a different story.

Cleat Eastwood

apparently he was released on bail in june/july. Its not just that A-hole that murdered those young officers - its the system too. Too eager to cosset what they see as an under privileged social group. Sad thing is there will be many who will him as a hero.

disgruntledgoat

So you want to be able to lock people on no charge because there isn't enough evidence to charge them with something the police think they did?

Careful what you wish for...

noiseboyfeetman

And what makes it even worse is that some people see him as a hero:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2205209/Dale-Cregan-OBE-Vile-Facebook-page-set-tribute-fugitive-arrested-police-women-killed-chief-constable-blasts-hold-folk-hero.html?ICO=most_read_module

Smokin Joe

disgruntledgoat wrote:

So you want to be able to lock people on no charge because there isn't enough evidence to charge them with something the police think they did?

Careful what you wish for...

Quite right.

There will always be hard cases, but the laws on detention are there for a very good reason.

Yellow Peril

Someone asked me today if I knew one of the officers (I used to be in the job) as it turns out her mother used to work as a classroom assistant for me when I was teaching in Castle Donington. She and her husband were/are very kind and gentle people who left after a couple of years to live in the IOM where I find myself now.

There was a thread on BR about the merits of capital punishment. My standpoint was that it was very easy to take the moral high ground about how uncivilised capital punishment is when you have not been a victim of the crime in question.

I note that PC Bone's father, who I remember as a kind,gentle and loving man, has called for the return of the death penalty. I for one would certainly be prepared to see the perpetrator of these crimes pay with his own life for what he has done.

disgruntledgoat

Yellow Peril wrote:

Someone asked me today if I knew one of the officers (I used to be in the job) as it turns out her mother used to work as a classroom assistant for me when I was teaching in Castle Donington. She and her husband were/are very kind and gentle people who left after a couple of years to live in the IOM where I find myself now.

There was a thread on BR about the merits of capital punishment. My standpoint was that it was very easy to take the moral high ground about how uncivilised capital punishment is when you have not been a victim of the crime in question.

I note that PC Bone's father, who I remember as a kind,gentle and loving man, has called for the return of the death penalty. I for one would certainly be prepared to see the perpetrator of these crimes pay with his own life for what he has done.

So to show how wrong killing is, we kill somebody?

Yellow Peril

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Yellow Peril wrote:

Someone asked me today if I knew one of the officers (I used to be in the job) as it turns out her mother used to work as a classroom assistant for me when I was teaching in Castle Donington. She and her husband were/are very kind and gentle people who left after a couple of years to live in the IOM where I find myself now.

There was a thread on BR about the merits of capital punishment. My standpoint was that it was very easy to take the moral high ground about how uncivilised capital punishment is when you have not been a victim of the crime in question.

I note that PC Bone's father, who I remember as a kind,gentle and loving man, has called for the return of the death penalty. I for one would certainly be prepared to see the perpetrator of these crimes pay with his own life for what he has done.

So to show how wrong killing is, we kill somebody?

But we aren't showing how wrong it is, we know it is wrong, just like theft, we are deciding on a fit punishment for the crime.

Would you keep a killer dog chained to a post for the rest of its life knowing that if released it would most likely kill again?

Would you feel any different if your wife/daughter were murdered? How about they were brutally murdered and tortured? Or how about brutally murdered, tortured,and raped...both of them?

I think I would want the perpetrator to pay with his/her life. I consider myself to be a man of fairly liberal views but consider the context of this crime and what has happened in the buiold up to these final senseless murders.

I don't think mankind has gone down the civilisation process far enough to dismiss the use of capital punishment.

fatreg

disgruntledgoat wrote:

So to show how wrong killing is, we kill somebody?

You take someone's life, why should you be able to continue yours?

disgruntledgoat

I believe that capital punishment isn't justice, it's revenge. For us to declare our society is better than those who would disobey it's laws to harm others,I believe we must show that we won't stoop to their level of barbarism.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but that's what I believe.

pb21

fatreg wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

So to show how wrong killing is, we kill somebody?

You take someone's life, why should you be able to continue yours?

Why shouldn't you be?

Yellow Peril

disgruntledgoat wrote:

I believe that capital punishment isn't justice, it's revenge. For us to declare our society is better than those who would disobey it's laws to harm others,I believe we must show that we won't stoop to their level of barbarism.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but that's what I believe.

Very noble. Would you not be prepared to qualify that by saying it is a belief based wholly on not having been directly affected by a capital crime? or is it a belief based on such a terrible experience?

I'd like to think like you do but I just don't think I could in that situation.

disgruntledgoat

I have no personal experience of a capital crime, no. I like to think that in that terrible situation I would be able to stick by my beliefs but, like many such things, I've no way of saying.

That, to my mind, is one of the reasons why justice should be out of the hands of those affected by such crimes.

Again, I'll never tell anybody I'm right and they're wrong on such a massive, naunced issue. Just that I respectfully disagree with them.

fatreg

Because you under your own steam took it upon yourself that you would today end someone's life. Not just someone, someone's child, maybe someone's parent. What on this god given earth entitles you to choose to end someones life? This is not medieval England we are not fighting the war of the roses anymore, the murdered at a guess were not foes nor friends for that matter.

To be brutally honest I think the punishment should outweigh the crime, you kill, you, your father, mother and siblings die.

I'm well aware my views are somewhat Draconian but crime shouldn't pay and until it doesn't it will still happen and if it happens afterwards well then thats evolution at work.

disgruntledgoat

To be brutally honest I think the punishment should outweigh the crime, you kill, you, your father, mother and siblings die.

EH?! You're going to have to explain how that represents justice on any scale

fatreg

disgruntledgoat wrote:

To be brutally honest I think the punishment should outweigh the crime, you kill, you, your father, mother and siblings die.

EH?! You're going to have to explain how that represents justice on any scale

There is no justice, that's the point, the punishment outweighs the crime. People wouldnt commit crime, the punishment is supposed to be a deterrent, kill, get sometimes as little as 10 years inside, how is that a deterrent? Think of your actions before, shit, if I do this I'm going to die as are my parents and my brothers, actually might not do this, and ok, I'm homeless, if I kil I get a nice warm bed for a good number of years. Bang. Let's do this.

disgruntledgoat

fatreg wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

To be brutally honest I think the punishment should outweigh the crime, you kill, you, your father, mother and siblings die.

EH?! You're going to have to explain how that represents justice on any scale

There is no justice, that's the point, the punishment outweighs the crime. People wouldnt commit crime, the punishment is supposed to be a deterrent, kill, get sometimes as little as 10 years inside, how is that a deterrent? Think of your actions before, shoot, if I do this I'm going to die as are my parents and my brothers, actually might not do this, and ok, I'm homeless, if I kil I get a nice warm bed for a good number of years. Bang. Let's do this.

That actually works really well in countries that have a death penalty.

Look, no crime!

Frank the tank

fatreg wrote:

Because you under your own steam took it upon yourself that you would today end someone's life. Not just someone, someone's child, maybe someone's parent. What on this god given earth entitles you to choose to end someones life? This is not medieval England we are not fighting the war of the roses anymore, the murdered at a guess were not foes nor friends for that matter.

To be brutally honest I think the punishment should outweigh the crime, you kill, you, your father, mother and siblings die.

I'm well aware my views are somewhat Draconian but crime shouldn't pay and until it doesn't it will still happen and if it happens afterwards well then thats evolution at work.

But if you're an orphan or have no siblings, you'll be getting off "light". That's not fair they'd have to execute some random members of the extended family. :roll:

CanalRider

He will hopefully go to prison for the rest of his natural life. He should be in total solitary with a bed and a bog. No TV's radios, PS3 etc and no do goody social workers. A weekly shower and that is only for the benefit of those that have to interact with the lowlife.

fatreg

You'll find crime in civilised Arab countries is very low. Ksa, UAE, Bahrain, Qatar to name but a few.

disgruntledgoat

fatreg wrote:

You'll find crime in civilised Arab countries is very low. Ksa, UAE, Bahrain, Qatar to name but a few.

You'll also find you cna beat your wife to death for answering the phone.

Cleat Eastwood

disgruntledgoat wrote:

So you want to be able to lock people on no charge because there isn't enough evidence to charge them with something the police think they did?

Careful what you wish for...

The option was to detain him whilst police continued their investigations into whether he had shot a man dead in a pub. He was given bail. Whilst on bail he then murdered the father of the man he had killed in the pub - he went on the run. Whilst on the run he he lured and murdered 2 police women. Fearing he would then be targeted by the armed respsonse unit - the coward gave himself up.

Those chain of events would not have happened if bail had not been granted. 3 lives versus a couple of days locked in a cell. To me thats a no brainer.