Body weight and climbing ability

otherself

I'm finding myself struggling to get back to my best climbing wise that was 12 years ago. Whilst my power output has incresed on the flats, I'm sometimes having to get off the bike and walk on the climbs - climbs I used to breeze up in the late 90's and early millennium (same route), and I was on a much heavier bike back then (11kg vs 7.6 kg today). I'm 34 years old, 5ft10 and weigh 86kg. I know I'm overweight by 10 - 12 kg or so.

I used to weigh 66kg in my early 20's and had less muscle mass and fat.

How much does body weight effect climbing ability?

gllewellyn

From what you've said, although you're saving 3.4 kg in bike weight, you've added 20 kg in body weight, so you're still having to pull up an extra 16.6 kg overall. Plus, I'm guessing that with the extra weight you're overall fitness is less, and also as you're bigger thats a bit of extra air to push out the way - obviously not a big factor for climbing, but it all contributes.
So overall, even if your flat speed is faster, I reckon your overall power to weight ratio is probably lower than it used to be, and therefore your climbing ability is lower.

Shift some of that weight, and you'll start flying up again!

otherself

gllewellyn wrote:

From what you've said, although you're saving 3.4 kg in bike weight, you've added 20 kg in body weight, so you're still having to pull up an extra 16.6 kg overall. Plus, I'm guessing that with the extra weight you're overall fitness is less, and also as you're bigger thats a bit of extra air to push out the way - obviously not a big factor for climbing, but it all contributes.
So overall, even if your flat speed is faster, I reckon your overall power to weight ratio is probably lower than it used to be, and therefore your climbing ability is lower.

Shift some of that weight, and you'll start flying up again!

I don't think it's possible for me to 66kg again - my bones and muscles have matured since then, hence heavier. 73kg is probably more realistic.

ju5t1n

Do your bones weigh more when they mature? I didn't know that

otherself

ju5t1n wrote:

Do your bones weigh more when they mature? I didn't know that

If they increase in density and thickness they are bound too.

LJAR

Hmm,

if you are 5'10" I would say it is very possible to get down to 70kg again. It will be hard though and may require losing some muscle to do it.

If you up your mileage and concentrate on your diet and eating right, then the pounds should start to come off without too much worry.

Ride more hills and you will get better at them too!

phreak

otherself wrote:

ju5t1n wrote:

Do your bones weigh more when they mature? I didn't know that

I always thought bone density decreased with age. Why not just try to lose weight and see how you get on. You might surprise yourself.

If they increase in density and thickness they are bound too.

amaferanga

While losing weight will help, if you are having to walk up hills then that suggests you're not very fit at the moment. SO losing weight and getting fitter should sort your climbing out.

t.m.h.n.e.t

otherself wrote:

ju5t1n wrote:

Do your bones weigh more when they mature? I didn't know that

If they increase in density and thickness they are bound too.

Getting older reduces bone density.


So you're overweight and unfit. More cycling to be done!


ps: have you got a "rugby build"?

ShutUpLegs

^
Hi Soni!

Alex_Simmons/RST

otherself wrote:

How much does body weight effect climbing ability?

Speed up steeper climbs is directly proportional to your power to weight ratio.

So if your power is not so flash (unfit) and you are carrying extra mud around the middle, then you will be slow on the climbs.

Improve fitness and lose excess body fat. Through training and good diet, those two outcomes tend to go hand in hand.

smidsy

And you lose excess body fat and improve fitness by climbing up bloomin hills - so it's a viscious circle :-)

springtide9

There is a climb on Strava where I matched someone else with a Power Meter. I am not sure how heavy the other guy is, but guess sub 70kgs (and I'm about 86kg currently). It's a pretty steep hill and has lots of tree cover and lots of bends, so wind is not an issue (and speed is only about 10mph, ave grade about 9%)

Anyway back to the question, for the same speed I needed 26% more power that this other guy on this specific hill.

There are other hills that I can compare, but the steeper the hill the more power to weight matters rather than overall power.

okgo

Up steep stuff it becomes very clear, yes.

I did a steep climb in Surrey Lanes with a guy in our club. we were both on power, we did the same time as we were going up at same rate, he weighs 68kg or so, I am about 79/80 back then. He needed 430 watts, I needed 500 for the same time.

Tom Dean

springtide9 wrote:

There is a climb on Strava where I matched someone else with a Power Meter. I am not sure how heavy the other guy is, but guess sub 70kgs (and I'm about 86kg currently). It's a pretty steep hill and has lots of tree cover and lots of bends, so wind is not an issue (and speed is only about 10mph, ave grade about 9%)

Anyway back to the question, for the same speed I needed 26% more power that this other guy on this specific hill.

There are other hills that I can compare, but the steeper the hill the more power to weight matters rather than overall power.

You don't know how much he weighs or how hard he was trying. What do you want to compare?

styxd

Body weight definitely makes a difference, I weigh about a stone and a half more than I should do at the moment and up the steep hills (25%) its a pain.

But I think technique and "fitness" have more of an influence on how quick you are up a hill.

davidof

otherself wrote:

I'm finding myself struggling to get back to my best climbing wise that was 12 years ago. Whilst my power output has incresed on the flats, I'm sometimes having to get off the bike and walk on the climbs - climbs I used to breeze up in the late 90's and early millennium (same route), and I was on a much heavier bike back then (11kg vs 7.6 kg today). I'm 34 years old, 5ft10 and weigh 86kg. I know I'm overweight by 10 - 12 kg or so.

I used to weigh 66kg in my early 20's and had less muscle mass and fat.

How much does body weight effect climbing ability?

I'm surprised you have to walk up hills. I'm 48 and weigh about 83-84kg with the same height as you. With my 10kg+ road bike I can still ride up any of the hills around these parts without getting off. Maybe you need lower gears?

rdt

otherself wrote:

I'm sometimes having to get off the bike and walk on the climbs

"A witch! A witch! We've got a witch!"

caledonian1

I did Etape du Tour Act 2 this July and although I finished it was a struggle beyond belief getting up and over the likes of Tourmalet and Peyresoudre. I am 5'10" and weighed approx 87 kilos (lost around 10 kilos beforehand) It was an incredible experience but would have been so much more comfortable if i had been about a stone lighter. I was passed by someone on the same bike, same gear and we seemed to be peddling at the same speed....so effectively putting in equal effort but he was flying past me. Saying that I was quicker than most going downhill but next year I vow to be a lot lighter

springtide9

Tom Dean wrote:

springtide9 wrote:

There is a climb on Strava where I matched someone else with a Power Meter. I am not sure how heavy the other guy is, but guess sub 70kgs (and I'm about 86kg currently). It's a pretty steep hill and has lots of tree cover and lots of bends, so wind is not an issue (and speed is only about 10mph, ave grade about 9%)

Anyway back to the question, for the same speed I needed 26% more power that this other guy on this specific hill.

There are other hills that I can compare, but the steeper the hill the more power to weight matters rather than overall power.

You don't know how much he weighs or how hard he was trying. What do you want to compare?

:?: We both had Power Meter on our bikes, so I know what wattage he was putting out for the climb and what wattage I was putting out - hence why I was able to state a percentage in terms of power output.

You are right that I do not know his weight as stated above... apart from he is obviously lighter than 86kg!
Edit... actually I have just found out how heavy the guy is as he has stated it on his blog ... "65-70Kg" - so not a bad guess if I say so myself!

dw300

springtide9 wrote:

Tom Dean wrote:

springtide9 wrote:

There is a climb on Strava where I matched someone else with a Power Meter. I am not sure how heavy the other guy is, but guess sub 70kgs (and I'm about 86kg currently). It's a pretty steep hill and has lots of tree cover and lots of bends, so wind is not an issue (and speed is only about 10mph, ave grade about 9%)

Anyway back to the question, for the same speed I needed 26% more power that this other guy on this specific hill.

There are other hills that I can compare, but the steeper the hill the more power to weight matters rather than overall power.

You don't know how much he weighs or how hard he was trying. What do you want to compare?

:?: We both had Power Meter on our bikes, so I know what wattage he was putting out for the climb and what wattage I was putting out - hence why I was able to state a percentage in terms of power output.

You are right that I do not know his weight as stated above... apart from he is obviously lighter than 86kg!
Edit... actually I have just found out how heavy the guy is as he has stated it on his blog ... "65-70Kg" - so not a bad guess if I say so myself!

I know you think that all variables are accounted for, but i think the wind can make a difference. Remember that the lighter a guy is the bigger the advantage from a tailwind, and at only 10mph you don't have to have much of a wind to make a difference. I can tell you that at 67kg that anytime i have a tailwind on a climb I go way faster than you might expect. It's not likely that with Strava being around this long, that any KOM was done with less than favourable conditions.

springtide9

dw300 wrote:

I know you think that all variables are accounted for, but i think the wind can make a difference. Remember that the lighter a guy is the bigger the advantage from a tailwind, and at only 10mph you don't have to have much of a wind to make a difference. I can tell you that at 67kg that anytime i have a tailwind on a climb I go way faster than you might expect. It's not likely that with Strava being around this long, that any KOM was done with less than favourable conditions.

There is no wind at all on that climb (as previously stated) lol I know you probably don't believe me, but there isn't!!!
It is a narrow road thick with tree cover on both sides, and twists multiple times as it goes up the hill. It was hugely windy today and I was being blown all over the place, but up that climb, you couldn't even feel a breeze. The difference isn't wind, it's weight. It is why I picked that segment as it doesn't really suffer from wind conditions.

Now, if I had picked the climb that is on the same hill but about 2 miles down the road, still twisty and reasonably narrow, but it's exposed... wind makes a huge difference on that one.

It's pretty easy to know which climbs/segments suffer wind and which don't, as if your weight has been constant over a period of time, you just click on 'My Results' and check the power values for each of the times your ridden it.

Note that pacing can create some variation in the power figures, but pacing is more of a variable on the longer climbs rather than a pretty much full out effort (this one is only 3mins).

As with anything, there are lots of variables, some make very small differences, other large differences. In terms of climbing, weight makes a huge difference. It is the primary reason why you'll see categories of riders in terms of their performance quoted in watts/kg, for various durations, which form the persons power profile.

ben16v

i hate hill climb season! i drop from top 3rd-5th in sporting club TT`s to double figures on the hill climbs! 5`10" 83kg just dont go up hill very fast even though the bike is lighter and the HR is the same!
although the hills are pretty tough
http://app.strava.com/rides/22883571#408696948

Tom Dean

springtide9 wrote:

:?: We both had Power Meter on our bikes, so I know what wattage he was putting out for the climb and what wattage I was putting out - hence why I was able to state a percentage in terms of power output.

You are right that I do not know his weight as stated above... apart from he is obviously lighter than 86kg!
Edit... actually I have just found out how heavy the guy is as he has stated it on his blog ... "65-70Kg" - so not a bad guess if I say so myself!

You didn't need to guess though, since

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

Speed up steeper climbs is directly proportional to your power to weight ratio.

Same time on the climb = Same power to weight ratio.

p.s. Strava is not racing

thiscocks

Tom Dean wrote:

springtide9 wrote:

:?: We both had Power Meter on our bikes, so I know what wattage he was putting out for the climb and what wattage I was putting out - hence why I was able to state a percentage in terms of power output.

You are right that I do not know his weight as stated above... apart from he is obviously lighter than 86kg!
Edit... actually I have just found out how heavy the guy is as he has stated it on his blog ... "65-70Kg" - so not a bad guess if I say so myself!

You didn't need to guess though, since

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

Speed up steeper climbs is directly proportional to your power to weight ratio.

Same time on the climb = Same power to weight ratio.

p.s. Strava is not racing

Where does he say they don't have the same power to weight? And where does he say strava is racing?

springtide9

Tom Dean wrote:

springtide9 wrote:

:?: We both had Power Meter on our bikes, so I know what wattage he was putting out for the climb and what wattage I was putting out - hence why I was able to state a percentage in terms of power output.

You are right that I do not know his weight as stated above... apart from he is obviously lighter than 86kg!
Edit... actually I have just found out how heavy the guy is as he has stated it on his blog ... "65-70Kg" - so not a bad guess if I say so myself!

You didn't need to guess though, since

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

Speed up steeper climbs is directly proportional to your power to weight ratio.

Same time on the climb = Same power to weight ratio.

p.s. Strava is not racing

You seem to have missed the original post :?: My original post wasn't stating it was a race, it was just giving an example of power to weight, specifically how much extra power is needed for additional weight.

Alex has not specified the formula that defines the steepness of the hill together with a persons power to weight to define for estimating climbing performance at a specific hill grade. I guessed the guys weight based on his wattage for the same speed compared to mine knowing the steepness of the hill. I got it close from familiarity of looking at the data when 'browsing Strava results', but probably more from knowing the rough weights of particular types of riders (I follow him on Strava, so I know he regularly races MTB and does pretty well as often states his results on Strava! And people who regularly race and do well on XC are not 80+kg!)

And just to be clear, the guy in question that I have compared the specific climb wattage data was not pushing on that hill ... he is 15kg lighter, has an FTP that is at least 25% higher and 20 years younger. He wasn't racing and neither was I; there are far too many fast riders around Bristol who are much younger, stronger and lighter.. I use Strava segments for interval training, although obviously the leaderboard helps as the carrot.

But this is all off topic.

The OP question was, how does "Body weight and climbing ability?"

My answer which was based on real power data was... "For a specific climb of roughly 10% grade, a 86kg rider appears to need roughly 26% more power in a single test".

If you don't give any figures the answer is considered woolly and the thread continues until someone gives some specifics. And when someone quotes something specific, it gets taken out of context (such as you are trying to brag) or misinterpreted as if the answer was some kind of golden formula; you really can't win sometimes!

Tom Dean

Since you know that

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

Speed up steeper climbs is directly proportional to your power to weight ratio.

What is the point of guessing someone's weight based on data on Strava, when you know your own power to weight for a given time and can calculate from that, and you don't know how accurate the guy's power figures are. It seems pointless to me.

Tom Dean

thiscocks wrote:

Where does he say they don't have the same power to weight? And where does he say strava is racing?

They do, for these specific rides, that's the point. Now we know springtide's opponent was not on a full effort, what are we comparing?

springtide9

Tom Dean wrote:

Since you know that

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

Speed up steeper climbs is directly proportional to your power to weight ratio.

What is the point of guessing someone's weight based on data on Strava, when you know your own power to weight for a given time and can calculate from that, and you don't know how accurate the guy's power figures are. It seems pointless to me.

I give up :?
Because the original question was: "Body weight and climbing ability".
Two riders, same hill, similar conditions. One needs 26% more power than the other to ride at the same speed. It's not much of a discussion unless you try and answer 'why'
How accurate is the power data? I believe he has a Powertap just like I do, so it's supposed to be approx 1% accurate.

It's not about whether the riders are at full effort or not. It's the fact that the speed was identical. It's like comparing MPG of two cars, and you appear to be trying to add top speed into the equation.

FYI
Speed up 'steeper hills' is NOT directly proportional to power to weight ratio.
Speed up hills is related to body weight, power and hill gradient (as well as other factors)
The clue is that there is no % gradient defined for 'steeper hills'.
http://bikecalculator.com/

Tom Dean

But you didn't even know the other guy's weight! You guessed. I'm not sure what you think you have learned.

Obviously there are many other factors contributing to speed, e.g. aerodynamics. However at low speeds on steep hills these tend to be so small as to be negligible which is why

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

Speed up steeper climbs is directly proportional to your power to weight ratio.

holds for practical purposes.

Tom Dean

springtide9 wrote:

FYI
Speed up 'steeper hills' is NOT directly proportional to power to weight ratio.
Speed up hills is related to body weight, power and hill gradient (as well as other factors)
The clue is that there is no % gradient defined for 'steeper hills'.
http://bikecalculator.com/

For a given climb, obviously. :roll: