Watch Enthusiasts - Rolex Daytona

GiantMike

This isn't meant to be a loaded question, but how can an £8000+ watch actually be justified? Surely at some point the design of the wristwatch got to the point where it was light and accurate enough that there were no obvious improvements. Surely with GPS widely available all that is actually needed is a GPS chip, a battery, a display, some buttons and a waterproof case. If it's just jewellery, why not just wear an £8000 bracelet made of gold and platinum and uranium and a small bit of meteorite?

There is a lot of talk about the cost of watch R+D. I don't understand why there's still a need for R+D in a watch. What D does all the R produce. How more accurate than entirely accurate can a watch get?

meesterbond

You're assuming the primary function of a watch is to tell the time...

There is no way that a mechanical watch can be more accurate than a quartz / digitial watch. I've got one that apparently takes a radio signal hourly so will be practically perfectly accurate all the time (or at least is was until the battery ran out). A mechanical watch that conforms to the highest standards (COSC) can still lose or gain 4 or so seconds a day and still pass.

Personally, I view it as (other than a wedding band) the only jewellery I'm ever likely to wear. The missus loves diamonds, I love watches and I get a lot of enjoyment from them.

In terms of R&D, have a think about how difficult it is to create a mechanism which turns potential energy (a wound spring), though an escapement and a load of gears into two hands which tell you hours and minutes. Then add a date. Then add a mechanism which tell the watch whether the month has 28, 29, 30 or 31 days and compensates accordingly. All done mechanically in a space not much bigger than a couple of 50p pieces.

Is it necessary? Probably not, but it's bloody brilliant that it can be done!

GiantMike

meesterbond wrote:

You're assuming the primary function of a watch is to tell the time...

You're right, I feel like such an idiot now.

StillGoing

GiantMike wrote:

This isn't meant to be a loaded question, but how can an £8000+ watch actually be justified? Surely at some point the design of the wristwatch got to the point where it was light and accurate enough that there were no obvious improvements. Surely with GPS widely available all that is actually needed is a GPS chip, a battery, a display, some buttons and a waterproof case. If it's just jewellery, why not just wear an £8000 bracelet made of gold and platinum and uranium and a small bit of meteorite?

There is a lot of talk about the cost of watch R+D. I don't understand why there's still a need for R+D in a watch. What D does all the R produce. How more accurate than entirely accurate can a watch get?

The beauty of a quality watch is the workings. The casing is secondary although the materiel is a consideration. A battery operated watch isn't a quality watch even if the casing is made out of 24kt gold. It's scrap value is it's only worth.

Some people won't see the value in a proper watch and will be quite happy with something that just tells the time. Not a problem with that and it'd be like a carp fisherman explaining to me why he gets a kick out of sitting out all night in the freezing cold albeit I stand a better chance of getting more than my investment back should I ever need to sell a watch or two.

Yep it's the same in my household; she likes diamonds and I like analogue watches. You don't even need to manually wind them and to watch the second hand sweep around instead of clunking around is a thing of beauty. Some watches are hideously expensive, but I buy them to associate them with sentimental memories and they look nice at black tie evenings.

BowtomePhil

Surely if you can't see or hear the workings, how is that the beauty of a watch?

I love watches, but I like them to look a certain way and as said before, if I could get a watch(not a fake) that looks good for £10 , then I would be happy. With an 8k watch on my wrist, only really me will know it costs 8k and still does the primary function, tells the time. Yes it is a piece of jewellery. I want a nice watch for my 50th, but max £1000.(Unless the one I see can be bought for £10 : ) )

GiantMike

BowtomePhil wrote:

Surely if you can't see or hear the workings, how is that the beauty of a watch?

I love watches, but I like them to look a certain way and as said before, if I could get a watch(not a fake) that looks good for £10 , then I would be happy. With an 8k watch on my wrist, only really me will know it costs 8k and still does the primary function, tells the time. Yes it is a piece of jewellery. I want a nice watch for my 50th, but max £1000.(Unless the one I see can be bought for £10 : ) )

You sound like you won't be wanting something from the esteemed manufacturer 'Emperor' and certainly not something from its 'New Clothes' range.

It's exactly 0838:45 by the way (G shock time)

StillGoing

BowtomePhil wrote:

Surely if you can't see or hear the workings, how is that the beauty of a watch?

I love watches, but I like them to look a certain way and as said before, if I could get a watch(not a fake) that looks good for £10 , then I would be happy. With an 8k watch on my wrist, only really me will know it costs 8k and still does the primary function, tells the time. Yes it is a piece of jewellery. I want a nice watch for my 50th, but max £1000.(Unless the one I see can be bought for £10 : ) )

You can see the workings. Quality watches are fitted with a backing plate that allows you to see it all working.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=patek+ ... aWezk-m2YM:

Anyone else who knows a thing or two about watches will know whether you're wearing a replica, a cheap time keeper or something of quality.

laurentian

Not really into watches (never been able to get on with having on on my wrist) but do appreciate the engineering involved. Looking at a similar thread once I saw one of these posted and, if I had to have a ludicrously expensive timepiece, I think I would have one of these:

http://www.alange-soehne.com/cms/en/tim ... index.html

Courage Monsieur

Get a nice IWC or Longines and spend the change on an amazing holiday. Or a second IWC / Longines.

That said, if you really want the Daytona just go for it.

carrock

I have a breitling super ocean which I bought at 20 per cent discount in 2008. Cost me £2100 then.



Now the same watch is 3 grand and if I sell mine I get my money back. It still looks like new and I wear it every day, but polish it with cape cod cloths to keep it shiny. A good watch will upgrade every outfit, although I appreciate its not for everybody. by the same token, riding a bike better than a £800 carreras might be construed as a pretentious waste of money by some.....

paultheparaglider

BowtomePhil wrote:

Surely if you can't see or hear the workings, how is that the beauty of a watch?

You could get one of these:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MENS-CHRONOSW ... vi-content

I own one. It is a work of art. Nothing like as tough as a Rolex, though.

GiantMike

carrock wrote:

I have a breitling super ocean which I bought at 20 per cent discount in 2008. Cost me £2100 then.

Doesn't that Breitling have a battery?

philthy3 wrote:

The beauty of a quality watch is the workings. The casing is secondary although the materiel is a consideration. A battery operated watch isn't a quality watch even if the casing is made out of 24kt gold. It's scrap value is it's only worth.

Scrap value? About £30 (including £20 for the battery).

carrock

Doesn't that Breitling have a battery?quote

Err no. Hence the automatic bit

It works off kinetic energy and as such rarely needs winding.

And there is, and always will be for the forseeable future, a steady stream of people who want to buy good used quality watches with box, papers, etc.

So it is, effectively, cost neutral for me.

Can't abide these people who have them and only save them for best. I wear mine everyday at work, in the gym, riding the bike, and only take it off when I am grubbing about in a car engine bay or whatever.

StillGoing

He's on a wind up (did you see what I did there) and just doesn't have our enthusiasm for quality watches.

carrock

philthy3 wrote:

He's on a wind up (did you see what I did there) and just doesn't have our enthusiasm for quality watches.

Ah. To be honest I thought it was a genuine question as some breitlings at the lower end do have quartz movement with batteries and look similar to the untrained eye.

One slightly alarming thing is that my bike and watch together are worth about 6 grand, and I would be a bit nervous about wandering about carrying that much in cash....

StillGoing

Similar here though I don't wear a watch of any description on a ride.

Monkeypump

Beancounter - back to the original question!

Had a word with a local Rolex dealer and he shed some light on the situation. His main advice was (if you want new) to stay outside London and work with local dealers. Also, go against common wisdom and carpet bomb - hit as many as you can and get your name on the list. You WILL have to wait, but he said that personally he doesn't care who buys his stock and is ruthless with waiting lists. If he gets no response after a couple of attempts, he moves down the list. He showed me his Daytona list and it had about 10 names on it. He gets about 3 s/s pieces a year, so do the math.

He also told me about the Daytonabase that Rolex introduced a while back. Apparently they log all purchaser info, and frequent buyers or 'good customers' do get bumped up the list. All Rolex dealers are part of it, and some less open about it than others. However, if you're a serious buyer he'll put you on the database. There seems to be a vetting process which happens a couple of months before you get to the top of the list to see if you're the 'right' sort of buyer.

He also advised going down the second hand route, although I know you're not keen.

I don't have his card with me at the moment, but I'll PM you his details if you want to get in touch.

beancounter

Monkeypump wrote:

Beancounter - back to the original question!

At last...... :roll:

Many thanks for all your input Monkeypump. Tbh as much as I want the Daytona I'm thoroughly hacked off with Rolex ("right kind of person" ffs!).

I have one chance of buying new from an AD this side of christmas but if that (more than likely) doesn't happen I'll be going s/hand.

Cheers

bc

BowtomePhil

carrock wrote:

I have a breitling super ocean which I bought at 20 per cent discount in 2008. Cost me £2100 then.



Now the same watch is 3 grand and if I sell mine I get my money back. It still looks like new and I wear it every day, but polish it with cape cod cloths to keep it shiny. A good watch will upgrade every outfit, although I appreciate its not for everybody. by the same token, riding a bike better than a £800 carreras might be construed as a pretentious waste of money by some.....

Thats a good looking watch(IMHO)

maddog 2

this thread is funny. People justifying why they spend thousands on a watch. I have theory....

Monkeypump

beancounter wrote:

Monkeypump wrote:

Beancounter - back to the original question!

At last...... :roll:

Many thanks for all your input Monkeypump. Tbh as much as I want the Daytona I'm thoroughly hacked off with Rolex ("right kind of person" ffs!).

I have one chance of buying new from an AD this side of christmas but if that (more than likely) doesn't happen I'll be going s/hand.

Cheers

bc

No worries - I'm amazed the fuss around them is still as strong as it was years ago. And your opinion of Rolex hits the nail on the head!

Good luck! (And make your next one a Submariner or Deep Sea )

Iamnot Wiggins

A vintage 1950's Daytone with the white face & leather strap is the way forward. You'll need about 4 or 5 times your budget though so maybe it's not for you. This time!

Jaeger LeCoultre make fantastic watches, nice & weighty if that's your thing and you can generally pick them up new for the budget you've got.

Zenith are also very nice as are Baume & Mercier. Hublot also make fantastic watches as do Audmars as somebody already mentioned.

carrock

maddog 2 wrote:

this thread is funny. People justifying why they spend thousands on a watch. I have theory....

Apparently there is a similar thread on the watch forums discussing why lots of affluent middle aged men spent 5000 on a carbon road bike

BowtomePhil

I went to a Ferrari track day once to take my 8 year old who loves them. Basically owners pay to go around a race track. I would say 95% of the drivers were over 50.

My point?

Once you get to 50 ish, you have more spare money, maybe your mortgage is paid off, you have no debts you have spare money. Me for example (48), no mortgage in 3 years time, I have everything I need(not everything I want). But I also realise that health is more important than anything. My philosophy is spend money now and enjoy life. There is a statistic, that 90% of people who retire at 65 die before they are 70. So as I say to my wife, why scrimp and save now for a retirement that may not last long. (last week somebody I know was given 6 weeks to live due to cancer, he lasted 10 days)

Life is too short, if you want to spend 7k on a watch and can afford it, just do it, don't not and regret it later.

Tom Butcher

BowtomePhil wrote:

There is a statistic, that 90% of people who retire at 65 die before they are 70. .

A completely made up one !

BowtomePhil

Tom Butcher wrote:

BowtomePhil wrote:

There is a statistic, that 90% of people who retire at 65 die before they are 70. .

A completely made up one !

Maybe, but I didn't make it up : )

Giraffoto

I don't "get" expensive watches at all - as evidence of which, I think £100 is expensive for one - but it's startling to see how many people do. It's like suddenly finding a secret society. . .

BowtomePhil

Giraffoto wrote:

I don't "get" expensive watches at all - as evidence of which, I think £100 is expensive for one - but it's startling to see how many people do. It's like suddenly finding a secret society. . .

I think smoking is expensive, say if you smoke 20 a day at £7 a packet, that is over £2000 a year spent trying to kill yourself. I would rather buy a watch for £2000 than slowly kill myself.

fast as fupp

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/320960010012? ... 1497.l2649

i got one of these, can i be in your gang?

carrock

fast as fupp wrote:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/320960010012?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

i got one of these, can i be in your gang?

No. You will have to hang around with the free school dinners gang.