Anyone enjoying this TOB more than the Vuelta
Comments
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Rick Chasey wrote:GP Walonia was excellent.
Disappointed in this ToB.
Especially since it's not coming to London.
. I'm unemployed and everything. Had time to turn up, be a bit nerdy, chat up Jonny in a totally plutonic way and be a smug bastard for an hour or two before retiring to my sofa and boring life sh!t.
Couple years ago the ToB was alright racing wise.
Good crowds mind. Probably as many UK fans in 1 week as there are in 3 weeks of Vuelta.
Use the time and some redundancy pay to nip off and see a stage or two Rick. It's always important to take a break after leaving a job - just to take stock.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
I think it's a very different race to the Vuelta, I enjoyed that but am enjoying this for different reasons. Great to see the public actually taking notice of cycling.
As Rick said it's strange that it doesn't go to London, would be good to visit the capital for the final day and see a bit of street racing, probably not very easy to organise though.0 -
I can't remember why its not coming to London - but I assume that it is something to do with the plethora of Olympics road closures.
I think the route should get a bit more interesting now - Stoke is fairly lumpy, Welshpool to Caerphilly is lumpy, the Devon stage is lumpy and even the Reigate to Guildford stage has a couple of decent lumps.
Certainly I doubt very much that Cav will be in "gold" at the end of that lot...http://www.georgesfoundation.org
http://100hillsforgeorge.blogspot.com/
http://www.12on12in12.blogspot.co.uk/0 -
They're missing a massive trick. You've got the tour of the country that has dominated road cycling this year & the best they can do is bloody Stoke & Carlisle. PLUS - the riders were avoiding fcking parked cars for most of the stage I watched. I've seen sportives as well organised. If it's just terrain that's the issue, then why is the Tour of Denmark such a decent race - it's like riding on a pool table.
Should be 2 weeks, with a mix of epic days round the lakes, dartmoor etc (with as a poster says, a series of short but tough climbs to make up for the lack of HCs) mixed with the UK having the balls to shut Edinburgh, Oxford etc for the day for finishes - the touristy places basically to guarantee crowds. Look at some of the finishing towns over the past years, no offence to anyone who lives there but it's almost as if they're intentionally choosing armpits.
Plus they could have chucked an Isle of Man stage in there.0 -
knedlicky wrote:
I think you’d be hard pressed to find many Cat 1 climbs in Britain using the method for classifying climbs in the TdF. They use a formula something like the average % slope squared, times three-quarters the ascent length in km. And if the result is between 250 and 599, then that is a Category 1 climb.Nickel wrote:
I don't know about climb classification, but I'd sure love to watch the pros ride Bwlych y groes, Porlock Hill or Hardknott PassMad_Malx wrote:
Was wondering about this. Is there anywhere that could provide a REAL cat 1 climb? Snake pass? Somewhere in Scotland/Wales/Exmoor?Vino2007 wrote:Does anyone think it would every be possible to turn the t.o.b into a grand tour comparible race? It's really a matter of landscape isn't it?
Related - if the ToB climbs were classified using continental criteria, how many would rank, and where?
In theory there are some UK passes which would qualify as Cat 1 according to the formula (e.g Hardknott, Bwlch y Groes, etc) but on the other hand in the TdF, very short climbs are sometimes ‘demoted’ in category because they are considered too short (and Hardknott is probably only 2 km long, Bwlch y Groes just 3 km).
The Snake Pass would only manage a resultant of about 150 using the above formula, which would make it a Cat 3 climb in the TdF.
Porlock Hill in Exmoor would be at the top end of a Cat 2 (but might make it into Cat 1, because I think occasionally the TdF organisers shift little-used climbs up or down in category, if a different categorisation fits better into their race plan for that stage).
I actually think the way the ToB could make its route more challenging is by including more saw-tooth type profiles, series of steep short climb after steep short climb. I don't mean 3-4 steep short climbs like when they went through the Peak District the other day, rather 10-15 such climbs over 100 km on each of a couple of days.
This seems like a sensible way of classifying climbs but I was under the impression that classifying at tdf was a lot more arbitrary than that. The context of the stage has a big role as some cat 2s in previous tours get bumped to cat 1s if they are relatively more important in the stage this time around.0 -
Instinctively I felt you’re right and I thought as example that the Peyresourde had in recent years been classified sometimes as Cat 1 and other times as Hors-Cat depending where it was (at what km) during a stage, but when I checked up, it has always been Cat 1 (without going back into the 50s-60s when classification was different).frosty99 wrote:
This seems like a sensible way of classifying climbs but I was under the impression that classifying at tdf was a lot more arbitrary than that. The context of the stage has a big role as some cat 2s in previous tours get bumped to cat 1s if they are relatively more important in the stage this time around.knedlicky wrote:
I think you’d be hard pressed to find many Cat 1 climbs in Britain using the method for classifying climbs in the TdF. They use a formula something like the average % slope squared, times three-quarters the ascent length in km. And if the result is between 250 and 599, then that is a Category 1 climb.Nickel wrote:
I don't know about climb classification, but I'd sure love to watch the pros ride Bwlych y groes, Porlock Hill or Hardknott PassMad_Malx wrote:
Was wondering about this. Is there anywhere that could provide a REAL cat 1 climb? Snake pass? Somewhere in Scotland/Wales/Exmoor?Vino2007 wrote:Does anyone think it would every be possible to turn the t.o.b into a grand tour comparible race? It's really a matter of landscape isn't it?
Related - if the ToB climbs were classified using continental criteria, how many would rank, and where?
In theory there are some UK passes which would qualify as Cat 1 according to the formula (e.g Hardknott, Bwlch y Groes, etc) but on the other hand in the TdF, very short climbs are sometimes ‘demoted’ in category because they are considered too short (and Hardknott is probably only 2 km long, Bwlch y Groes just 3 km).
The Snake Pass would only manage a resultant of about 150 using the above formula, which would make it a Cat 3 climb in the TdF.
Porlock Hill in Exmoor would be at the top end of a Cat 2 (but might make it into Cat 1, because I think occasionally the TdF organisers shift little-used climbs up or down in category, if a different categorisation fits better into their race plan for that stage).
I actually think the way the ToB could make its route more challenging is by including more saw-tooth type profiles, series of steep short climb after steep short climb. I don't mean 3-4 steep short climbs like when they went through the Peak District the other day, rather 10-15 such climbs over 100 km on each of a couple of days.
Nonetheless, I think you could still be right about infrequent climbs which are borderline to any category.
In this year’s Tour, the Col de le Croix (stage 8, just before the descent to the stage finish in Porrentruy) was probably really a Cat 2, but elevated to a Cat 1, because of its location along the route.
By contrast, on stage 17, the Col de Mente was probably really a Hors-Cat but was relegated to Cat 1, because it came only 25 km into a 145 km stage.0 -
Did anyone else enjoy the Grand Prix de Wallonie more than either the Tour of Britain or the Vuelta? 0
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If you're 1 1/2 stone overweight, red wine hungover and can't get all your lowest gears there are plenty of Cat 1 climbs in the Peak District 0
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And what's wrong with going to Stoke or Carlisle? I think London has seen enough cycling this year.
The ToB so far has been pretty good. It's nice to see some smaller teams riding, as well as Sky etc. The point about an IoM stage is good, and something I'd like to see, but in any tour you can't get around the whole country.
Is it better than the Vuelta? I don't think it's possible to compare a 3 week GT with a one week race. The teams are different sizes and made up differently.
And Hugh Porter is commentating. What's not to like?Ecrasez l’infame0 -
If it was longer, London would be a good last stage cos its flat and makes for good crowds and a sprint where GC isn't contested. Otherwise London's a bit dull.
Iconically Stoke and Carlisle offer nothing compared to places like Edinburgh, Bath etc, but its the routes that are more important in a shorter stage race anyway. I agree with most people that there are good stages to be made which could include a lot of good climbs, but we have to accept a lot of our town and city finishes when viewed by helicopter will look like shots from police choppers chasing car thieves, in a sunny France or Italy the towns can be stunning from the air. The countryside we have might not have the mountains, but the amazing scenery is there.
Ive been enjoying the TOB, think its really watchable. Don't think it'll get much bigger unless the country spends a lot more on Tarmac, jesus our roads are bad now. I blame that Tony C. Blair.0 -
mfin wrote:If it was longer, London would be a good last stage cos its flat and makes for good crowds and a sprint where GC isn't contested. Otherwise London's a bit dull
Ive been enjoying the TOB, think its really watchable. Don't think it'll get much bigger unless the country spends a lot more on Tarmac, jesus our roads are bad now. I blame that Tony C. Blair.
From what I understand a lot of the Spanish Roads are paid for by the EU because they are/were a poor country. They should take a look at some of the roads round Essex, we've actually got families living in some of the pot holes round here they are so big. Years of neglect...0 -
Given Britain's geography and climate, shouldn't we be really good at holding one day spring classics?0
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Nickel wrote:Given Britain's geography and climate, shouldn't we be really good at holding one day spring classics?
I think a one day at this time of year
and put the TOB back to earlier in the year and have it as a Under 230 -
What you are talking about are the EU funds for regional development, so money given to countries to improve the infrastructure in less-developed regions. And Spain has been one of the recipients of such funds, or more exactly, the provinces of SW Spain.Paul 8v wrote:
From what I understand a lot of the Spanish Roads are paid for by the EU because they are/were a poor country. They should take a look at some of the roads round Essex, we've actually got families living in some of the pot holes round here they are so big. Years of neglect...mfin wrote:If it was longer, London would be a good last stage cos its flat and makes for good crowds and a sprint where GC isn't contested. Otherwise London's a bit dull
Ive been enjoying the TOB, think its really watchable. Don't think it'll get much bigger unless the country spends a lot more on Tarmac, jesus our roads are bad now. I blame that Tony C. Blair.
In the UK, North Wales, South Wales and Cornwall have received such funds.
In order to qualify for this funding, a region has to have a GDP (gross domestic product) per capita of less than 75% the EU average. Unfortunately for you, Essex has a GDP higher then the EU average.0 -
Pross wrote:The thing I like about the ToB (other than actually getting to see a stage live) is seeing them treat the hills that we think of as a challenge on our Sunday clubruns with complete disdain
I enjoy it as a race in its own right and it's good to have live coverage (need to work at the production but that will hopefully come with experience and isn't much worse than the Vuelta considering the massive differences in funding!). I would rather see a really top level one dayer in this country though, I think we have the terrain that could produce a very good one day route.
The Empire Stores...one day race in the 80's was a classic..from Bristol to Bradford well over 200mls..and the climb over Holme Moss was packed...it pulled some great names from the continental riders0 -
I think the tour is giving those who may not have ever seen any live cycling a great opportunity to go along and learn some more about the sport.. it will hopefully get people more interested and maybe from it generate a future champion.. I can only see good coming from it
And compared to the Vuelta, i am enjoying it immensely but as others said im enjoying it for different reasons.0 -
I do think on a short tour that starting and ending in Stoke is a waste.
Likewise finishing in Liverpool and then finishing in Blackpool isn't spreading things around, and both Blackpool and Stoke seem to be annual ports of call, yet both are sh1tholes.
It's a real shame Somerset County Council decided not to stay involved, deciding they couldn't afford it - would have been nice for Dorset to take it on from them (selfishly!). Good on Devon and somerset to vary the start and finish towns .
As said above, the likes of Bath, Oxford, Winchester would be much better places to end stages than some that have been chosen. A bunch sprint along Great Pulteney Street in Bath anyone?
A one day classic style race in the spring would be a great addition too.0 -
doesn't come to London ?? Maybe I'm exagerrating a bit but it's almost within walking distance of central London and certainly withion most people's cycling ability.
Btw, having been out of work myself for quite a few months in the recent past, the sofa is a very dangerous place to be. Fortunately I managed to avoid that except for 3 hours a day when the TdF was on. The rest of the time was taken up chasing jobs which is actually very time consuming indeed and in fact my plans to do all sorts of cycling never actually came to fruition0 -
As Dorset Boy alluded to, the choice of locations partly comes down to money. As in the TdF, start and finish towns pay the organisers to have the ToB come through - and also incur costs in the hosting itself. The local council has to be convinced it's worth forking out taxpayers' money to attract visitors and/or raise the town's profile. Cycling is not yet a big enough sport in the UK that the prestige alone justifies it, particularly at a time of budget cuts. (The likes of Oxford and Edinburgh, mentioned in this thread, probably feel they're doing quite well enough without a visit from the ToB.) The result of this is the organisers aren't spoiled for choice.
Then, the route planners have to try to cover different parts of the country without ridiculous transfers, use a mix of terrains, find suitable roads and highlight some of the scenery. And each area they pass through, the council, police and various other public organisations have in effect a right of veto.
London was a no-no this year because the city had already accommodated the Jubilee celebrations and the Olympics. I imagine the ToB will return there next year. I also hear this might be the last year that Stoke plays such a prominent role, because its campaign to promoting cycling in the city is coming to an end.
On the plus side, the Halfords Tour Series had more races than ever this year, which suggests some local authorities are starting to support cycle racing and perhaps that will create opportunities for the 2013 ToB.0 -
Been there, done that. (Mine of course was Maggie selling off our Industry abroad)dsoutar wrote:
Btw, having been out of work myself for quite a few months in the recent past, the sofa is a very dangerous place to be. Fortunately I managed to avoid that except for 3 hours a day when the TdF was on. The rest of the time was taken up chasing jobs which is actually very time consuming indeed and in fact my plans to do all sorts of cycling never actually came to fruition
My diary got full of appointments for Interviews and the cost of getting to them.
NO is the answer to the thread title.
You lot should give up comparing the question and just compare the TOB with Paris-Nice, Tour of Romandie or perhaps the ENECO.
Maybe, just to annoy some people, the Tour of California.
Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 19720 -
dsoutar wrote:doesn't come to London ?? Maybe I'm exagerrating a bit but it's almost within walking distance of central London and certainly withion most people's cycling ability.
Btw, having been out of work myself for quite a few months in the recent past, the sofa is a very dangerous place to be. Fortunately I managed to avoid that except for 3 hours a day when the TdF was on. The rest of the time was taken up chasing jobs which is actually very time consuming indeed and in fact my plans to do all sorts of cycling never actually came to fruition
I'd like to see you walk from Fulham to Leatherhead.0 -
Typical town boy response! :roll: Out ere in the country, we'd think nothing of a 25 mile stroll. 0
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And even more interesting with sky having a bad day at the office methinks0
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No, Vuelta was excellent.Superstition sets the whole world in flames; philosophy quenches them.
Voltaire0 -
snake pass would make a great race to watch, strines moor is easily better than some of the hills on the tour, that said im loving the fact its on telly, that cant be a bad thingMad_Malx wrote:Vino2007 wrote:Does anyone think it would every be possible to turn the t.o.b into a grand tour comparible race? It's really a matter of landscape isn't it?
Was wondering about this. Is there anywhere that could provide a REAL cat 1 climb? Snake pass? Somewhere in Scotland/Wales/Exmoor?
Related - if the ToB climbs were classified using continental criteria, how many would rank, and where?0 -
Leigh Howard's eyebrows.
Next time he's being interviewed, now I've mentioned them; I defy you to look at anything else or even listen to what he's saying...0 -
OCDuPalais wrote:Leigh Howard's eyebrows.
Next time he's being interviewed, now I've mentioned them; I defy you to look at anything else or even listen to what he's saying...
I have been unable to think to think of anything else. I even woke up at 3am and turned on the laptop looking for a Leigh Howard's eyebrows thread on Bike Radar. The aerodynamic disadvantage makes his GC leadership ev en more impressive.
Maybe he's heard that they're planning a Hollywood Blockbuster remake of Stingray and he's pushing himself for the role of Troy Tempest.0 -
Dorset Boy wrote:I do think on a short tour that starting and ending in Stoke is a waste.
Likewise finishing in Liverpool and then finishing in Blackpool isn't spreading things around, and both Blackpool and Stoke seem to be annual ports of call, yet both are sh1tholes.
It's a real shame Somerset County Council decided not to stay involved, deciding they couldn't afford it - would have been nice for Dorset to take it on from them (selfishly!). Good on Devon and somerset to vary the start and finish towns .
As said above, the likes of Bath, Oxford, Winchester would be much better places to end stages than some that have been chosen. A bunch sprint along Great Pulteney Street in Bath anyone?
A one day classic style race in the spring would be a great addition too.
I think a one day race round Bath would be immense, you could fit in 10/15 10%+ hills within about 5 miles of the city centre (its also easy to get to the mendips, think Cheddar etc.), and then as you said there's Great Pulteney Street for a grand finale. Unfortunately, Bath's council don't need the tourism boost, and they already have the half marathon (which starts/finishes on Great Pulteney Street), and so have said no to the idea when it was suggested.
One day though....0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:dsoutar wrote:doesn't come to London ?? Maybe I'm exagerrating a bit but it's almost within walking distance of central London and certainly withion most people's cycling ability.
Btw, having been out of work myself for quite a few months in the recent past, the sofa is a very dangerous place to be. Fortunately I managed to avoid that except for 3 hours a day when the TdF was on. The rest of the time was taken up chasing jobs which is actually very time consuming indeed and in fact my plans to do all sorts of cycling never actually came to fruition
I'd like to see you walk from Fulham to Leatherhead.
Christ - it's only 17 miles according to the AA; you really have got sofa-itis.
When I go back home, this is the sort of thing my wife and I drag ourselves around http://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/lochness ... nros.shtml so a 17 mile walk through Surrey isn't going to be particularly taxing...and there are more pubs to rest in ! (mind you that might actually be a handicap)0 -
dsoutar wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:dsoutar wrote:doesn't come to London ?? Maybe I'm exagerrating a bit but it's almost within walking distance of central London and certainly withion most people's cycling ability.
Btw, having been out of work myself for quite a few months in the recent past, the sofa is a very dangerous place to be. Fortunately I managed to avoid that except for 3 hours a day when the TdF was on. The rest of the time was taken up chasing jobs which is actually very time consuming indeed and in fact my plans to do all sorts of cycling never actually came to fruition
I'd like to see you walk from Fulham to Leatherhead.
Christ - it's only 17 miles according to the AA; you really have got sofa-itis.
When I go back home, this is the sort of thing my wife and I drag ourselves around http://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/lochness ... nros.shtml so a 17 mile walk through Surrey isn't going to be particularly taxing...and there are more pubs to rest in ! (mind you that might actually be a handicap)
Walking for more than an hour is undignified.
Rather like running when you're an adult and not doing sport.
Get on your bike.0
